Buying from unknown sellers

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Posted By: Dylan

I just purchased a card off of Ebay from a seller with no feedback. Its a fairly expensive card and the seller only accepts money order for payment. I was thinking of having the seller send me a picture with his handle written next to it to atleast verify he owns it. Beyond that what can i do to protect myself?
Also what course of action can you take if a seller sells you a "phantom" item? i know everyone starts somewhere, but its good to cover your bases, ive had several users with no feedback skip out on paying for items, so you still have to exercise caution.

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Posted By: Dave

This wouldn't be for the T206 Chance Portrait that ended last night would it?

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Posted By: Dylan

I dont think its neccesary to mention the item in question.

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Posted By: steve f

Dylan, If unsure... After purchase, but before paying, post a *photo or link here. At least you'll know what your getting and you could back out. No crook wants to make waves.

For the newbees; Trust noone new and use Paypal at all times, until you get a little experience (I'm still learning as well). I've been taken for hundreds of dollars on bogus eBay sales (Altered and counterfeit) over the years. But was able to recoup on nearly all of them, thanks to Paypal. Follow your gut instinct, save all auction photos and when returning items, require a sig and you'll avoid most pitfalls.


*There's no certainty that the photo is the seller's .

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Posted By: Darren

I too have been taken several times. I have learned to send payments with signature confirmation.

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Posted By: Dylan

Steve-I am very familer with the item, i dont question its authenticity.

Darren-how is that done?

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Posted By: Dave

Not neccesary to identify the item in question??? Sorry, I didn't know it was some huge secret, if it was I would have assumed you wouldn't have asked to begin with. Not sure how you can ask what else should you do if folks cant see a link or even know how much money your gambling....your privacy will remain intact with me though as I won't respond to anymore of your inquiries.

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Posted By: Dylan

Thank you, i really dont want any advice from someone that just posted that they thought T206 HOF's with special backs didn't receive a value multiplier. Pretty beginner stuff IMO. BTW the question i asked wasn't "can anyone guess what item on ebay i bought?"
Its how do you handle purchasing from bidders with no feedback. Your response had nothing to do with the question

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Posted By: Dave

I didn't say I thought they didn't receive a multiplier...I was questioning the multiplier....and you've already said more than enough in that statement as to the kind of guy you are..BTW, Steve also asked for the freaking link to the purchase you were talking about...ITS TOTALLY RELEVANT

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Posted By: barrysloate

Dylan- do you know if ebay still offers an escrow service? That may be the safest way to deal with an unknown seller.

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Posted By: JK

I actually think the link or the amount of money you are talking about is completely relevant. Everyone starts with zero feedback. They arent all crooks. If its a small item (a couple hundred dollars or less), send the money with a signature required (to prove receipt). If its an expensive item, you need to be more cautious. I recently sent a $300 MO (wouldnt take anything else) to a relatively low feedback seller who had an ungraded pc 796 plank (and didnt deal a lot in bb cards). Next thing I know, Im told he hasnt rec'd the money. I sent it regular mail and thought I was going to be out the money. Three weeks after I sent the MO, it shows up. Got the card, it graded nicely, and all is well.

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Posted By: Joann

Dylan, for someone asking for help and advice, you are being pretty rude imo. Not the refusal to post a link in itself, but the dismissive way of dealing with people responding.

Also, the time to ask about whether the seller owns the item or for scans proving that he owns it was before you bought it. There are some things you can do to protect yourself now, but the real ability to avoid trouble is gone now that the auction is over (which I presume from your statement that you bought an item on ebay).

Joann

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Posted By: JK

I also agree with Joanne - contrary to how it may appear at times, this board is not all about confrontation. Dave was only trying to help.

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Posted By: steve f

*Note to self, Refrain from replying to this fellow's requests.

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Posted By: Ray Piskadlo

Link...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200068292154>

Edited to say that it's best to ask for a scan of the card with a word or phrase (of your choice) written on paper next to it to prove they have it before the auction ends.

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Posted By: T206Collector

...but this is not his first sale.

I might consider e-mailing some of the other purchasers to see if they've had any luck/concerns with this guy yet.

200067124843 Jan-09-07 Jan-12-07 18:27:29 PST $0.99 Men's Gold and Blue Neck Tie by Arrow, Good Buy!! No Bids (*)
200067126768 Jan-09-07 Jan-12-07 19:36:54 PST $0.99 Nice Blue and Red Men's Neck Tie by Tango!!Nice Buy! No Bids (*)
200067128043 Jan-09-07 Jan-12-07 19:42:49 PST $0.99 Men's Drum Necktie by Ralph Marlin! Good Buy!!! No Bids (*)
200067137493 Jan-09-07 Jan-12-07 20:16:59 PST $0.99 Nice American Flag Men's NeckTie by Tango!!! rcatcrazy( 833) (*)
200066656315 Jan-08-07 Jan-13-07 11:01:36 PST $20.50 The Norton Field Guide To Writing by Richard Bullock... bigfish40( 60) (*)
200066772522 Jan-08-07 Jan-13-07 17:35:33 PST $15.50 Living Theater by Alvin Goldfarb, Edwin Wilson (2003) deborah5299( 43) (*)
200066851461 Jan-08-07 Jan-13-07 23:52:59 PST $41.12 1909 T-206 Fred Merkle SGC 40 Piedmont Back!!! 16944old( 268) (*)
200066851903 Jan-08-07 Jan-13-07 23:56:23 PST $62.00 1909 T-206 Jimmy Collins SGC 30, Polar Bear Back HOF!!! 16944old( 268) (*)
200066852313 Jan-09-07 Jan-14-07 00:00:34 PST $89.88 1909 T-206 Hughie Jennings SGC 40, Sovereign Back!! crab-chucks( 664) (*)
200066852719 Jan-09-07 Jan-14-07 00:04:28 PST $107.72 1909 T-206 Vic Willis SGC 40, Piedmont Back HOF. crab-chucks( 664) (*)
200067014073 Jan-09-07 Jan-14-07 12:11:05 PST $53.99 1962 Topps Stan Musial PSA 7!!! Hall Of Fame!!! jordanfan1023( 822) (*)
200067016103 Jan-09-07 Jan-14-07 12:17:00 PST $7.67 1982 Topps Traded Ozzie Smith BGS 9!!! timothydw( 240) (*)
200067909242 Jan-11-07 Jan-14-07 15:01:30 PST $1.01 The Norton Anthology of English Literature by Meyer ... No Bids (*)
200067075598 Jan-09-07 Jan-14-07 15:59:17 PST $20.50 Technical Communication by John M. Lannon (2005) malpal23( 3 ) (*)
200067076426 Jan-09-07 Jan-14-07 16:02:30 PST $0.99 Reaching Adolescents by Arthea J.S. Reed (1994) No Bids (*)
200067078008 Jan-09-07 Jan-14-07 16:09:49 PST $0.99 Research Methods in Psychology by Eugene B. Zechmeis... No Bids (*)
200067449231 Jan-10-07 Jan-15-07 19:16:26 PST $36.00 First Peoples by Colin G. Calloway (2003) jmp05f( 2 ) (*)
200067450289 Jan-10-07 Jan-15-07 19:20:57 PST $0.99 The Longman Anthology of Short Fiction by Dana Gioia... rose_vette( 10) (*)
200068291633 Jan-12-07 Jan-15-07 20:08:02 PST $40.01 1984 Fleer Update Kirby Puckett ROOKIE PSA 8!! HOF!!!! ccrispy2( 196) (*)
200068292154 Jan-12-07 Jan-15-07 20:11:21 PST $87.60 1909 T-206 Frank Chance PSA 3 Yellow Portrait! HOF!! bgspsa1( 175) (*)
200068293425 Jan-12-07 Jan-17-07 20:16:52 PST $52.01 1909 T-206 Clark Griffith Portrait PSA 3 OLD MILL BACK! Bidder 4
200067911378 Jan-11-07 Jan-18-07 15:05:36 PST $0.99 Living Theater by Alvin Goldfarb, Edwin Wilson (2003) Bidder 1
200068290756 Jan-12-07 Jan-19-07 20:02:03 PST $0.99 Dungeon Master's Guide by Dungeons & Dragons (2003) Bidder 1
200068290909 Jan-12-07 Jan-19-07 20:03:01 PST $0.99 Men's Drum Necktie by Ralph Marlin! Good Buy!!! No Bids Yet
200068291042 Jan-12-07 Jan-19-07 20:03:47 PST $0.99 Nice Blue and Red Men's Neck Tie by Tango!!Nice Buy! No Bids Yet
200068291159 Jan-12-07 Jan-19-07 20:04:44 PST $0.99 Men's Gold and Blue Neck Tie by Arrow, Good Buy!! No Bids Yet
200069121771 Jan-15-07 Jan-22-07 12:46:44 PST $0.99 Research Methods in Psychology by Eugene B. Zechmeis... No Bids Yet
200069122030 Jan-15-07 Jan-22-07 12:47:30 PST $0.99 Reaching Adolescents by Arthea J.S. Reed (1994) No Bids Yet
200069129424 Jan-15-07 Jan-22-07 13:10:12 PST $0.99 1972 Topps Carlton Fisk ROOKIE PSA 8!!! Bidder 1

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Posted By: ScottIngold

Wow !!!! If i had won that card for BIG $$$'s i guess i would be rude over it to.

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Posted By: joe brennan

Interesting that all his T206's are HOFer's in mid to low grade. Trying to fly under the radar?

In Rememberance of James W. Brennan Sr. 1924-1982. Dad, thanks for everything you did for me.

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Posted By: DR

Contact the (2) people the seller in question made recent purchases from, NICELY explain the situation (because $75 seems like a big deal to you) and ask if Paypal was used for the purchase. If yes, then offer a Paypal (but also offer to pay the fees and maybe a little extra for motivation)...since you are saving $.39 and time. If he paid via Paypal, expect him to claim it is a Personal Account and be willing to send from an existing balance or bank account. If he did not pay via Paypal, you have likely (1) choice, to follow the listing contract or get into a standoff or exchanging negatives but you have no right. In my opinion, you decided to take the risk. I noticed he sold a BGS 9 Ozzie Smith for under $10. This is a $50 card...I think. One receives better deals when the situation is sketchy but it all evens out in the end. Good luck!

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Posted By: JK

Two more points - for $90, I'd just send the money and take your chances. I realize that that $90 is not an insignigicant amount, but if its being spent on bb cards, its unlikely to kill you if its lost.

Second, you may want to consider an insurance policy on your cards (I dont know how much your collection is worth, but if its a lot, you really ought to have one and if its not a lot, the policies are pretty cheap) from one of the companies that specialize in bb cards (such as collectibles insurance company). They will reimburse you for any cards lost in the mail if they are shipped to you in the proper method (the proper method depends on the value of the card). This will protect you from a seller who claims to have shipped you s/t but doesnt. I believe the policy also protects against internet fraud up to a limited amount.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I notice the seller says he accepted bids from the US only. I would think a scammer would not
place a geographical limit, being happy to get money from anywhere. It's just as easy to not ship
something to Timbuktu as it is to not ship it to Milwaukee (Having never mailed anything to
Timbuktu I can testify to this). The US only bids and money order may simply indicate a careful seller,
worried about being scammed himself.

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Posted By: Dave

I too agree with some of the prior posters Dylan....you should ask the tough questions before you bid on any item you are suspect about. Personally I wouldn't have bid on that card after reading the description and seeing the "0" feedback. that's just me....there are plenty of collectors who would and do bid on auctions like that. I have always found that establishing some kind of communication with the seller while the auction is ongoing is important. For example....there was a T# Turkey Red for sale on Ebay not too long ago in a bizarre category with just the title of the players name and the word baseball card in it. I remember looking at the auction several times, and according to the counter I was the only one who had looked. I thought I had possibly found a great deal. It was described as being original, and rare !! I emailed the seller asking about the dimensions of the card before I even bid. It took 7 days for a reply, but finally got one right before the auction was to end. Seems this "original" Turkey Red was really a re-print, and the seller was obviously trying to mislead people in to thinking this was a rare mint condition Turkey Red.
Ebay's safe harbor won't do you much good in cases like this if you are ripped off. PAYPAL will give you the chance at getting your money back afetr a lengthy process. Any money order sent to an unknown seller should perhaps be sent registered mail. That way someone has to at least sign for it. In the end if you are ripped off, I have always had good luck calling the police department or county sheriff wherever the person lives. Tell them what happened. In 2002 I was ripped off for hundreds of dollars by a seller in Allentown,PA. I got together with one other buyer who also had been take, and we ended up getting charges brought against the seller. turns out it was a young kid thought he could make some quick money to buy drugs with.

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Posted By: fkw

The good things I see, all the card scans are similar, as in they were scanned roughly the same way with the same scanner. And none of the cards are what you usually see in scams ($500+ big $$ cards). Also the cards are roughly the same overall condition and would easily look to be part of a small collection. He also has a bunch of ties he doesnt want anymore. Most scammers wouldnt even waste their time with low $$ stuff like ugly ties and college age books. My guess he is 28 and a bachelor and wants $$ to pay off his depts or has a new girlfriend who wants a trip to St. Lucia.

The only strange thing is some auctions say PayPal only and some say MO only. But maybe he is selling some of his roommates stuff too and needs certain payments in certain forms. ???

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

I bought a high-dollar card on eBay from a low-feedback seller once. When the card was first listed, I sent the seller an email, politely explaining that I was interested in the card but concerned about his low feedback. I explained that in the card hobby as it relates to eBay, there is a great deal of fraud - and although I did not suspect the seller was trying to defraud me, if I was 100% comfortable with the seller, I would be likely to bid considerably more.

The seller responded by printing out my email, placing the card on top of it, taking a digital picture of it, and emailing me the picture, along with an explanation of how he acquired the card and why he was selling it. He was extremely friendly, and extremely legit.

I wound up winning the card, and although I bid more than the card was worth, I won it for less than the card was worth - presumably because others were hesitant to do business with an unknown seller. The seller sent it to me FedEx, and I left immediate positive feedback about his trustworthiness on high-dollar vintage cards.

The seller went on to sell about ten more high-dollar cards from the same era over the next few weeks, and did much better as he accumulated similar feedback.

Nice guy.

-Al

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Posted By: Dylan

I'd like to say that when i thought of posting about this topic, i never intended to involve my purchase specifically. I really only wanted to hear feedback on others opinions when they have bought from low/no feedback sellers. It was my mistake posting information in regards to my auction.

Handle "DR"- I would also like to say that NO $75.00 (for the record its $90.00) is not a lot of money to me. However, its also not $10 either. I do think its enough money to warrent some small level of concern, agreed? And yes, i would have loved to ask for another scan during the auction, but i only noticed the auction 32 minutes prior to its closing, so i was somewhat limited in my course of action.

I think sending payment via registered mail is a small but worthwhile course. And considering seller does accept paypal for other auctions(thank you for bringing this to my attention) it wouldnt hurt to ask if he would accept paypal with a few extra bucks.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Even with the zero feedback, the seller doesn't come across as a scammer.
Some honest sellers request money orders only for items they consider
high priced. $80 whatever may not be high price for Mastro, but it may
be some sellers.

My guess is you'll get the card.

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Posted By: Mike

I recently purchased a card from an unknown seller. In an attempt to speed up the transaction, and to eliminate any problems, I sped to my bank, and fired off a cashiers check. The check was purcahsed from the 8th largest bank holding comp. in the USA. So no problems right? Well,,the seller tells me he has to wait 10 days or 14 days so that he makes sure it clears the banks???????? Says he has never seen one of (those) before. I still don't have the item. Though he claims it is on the way. I won't mention any names, because it serves no purpose here. Suffice it to say, he probably isn't the most educated individual. Never saw one of those before? I mean really. Since I collect more than cards, I occasionally purchase other baseball memorabilia from people who don't specialize in "our" arena. These are the ONLY people that I have ever had trouble with. It seems that folks who deal only in "our" world, never are a problem. Oh well, just though folks would like to know that some have never seen a money order or cashiers check before.....sheeesh.

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Posted By: Dylan

I wanted to post the following to those with these handles: asphaltman76, JMK59, fdnyladder7, aloof1003, barry bonds.
I had previously posted concerns about a seller on another sports card forum. I made it clear that i was uncomfortable with his methods of acceptable payment(similer to this situation) Turned out that he was an honest seller but after either being notified of the thread he felt insulted and backed out of the deal and sold to the next guy in line. So as you can see in my experience it hasn't always paid to discuss these things in specifics. I will say again that I should have just asked what do you guys do in these situations, and said nothing about my pending purchase. But after making it pretty clear i wanted it left out of the forum, a link was still posted to it anyways. Probably no harm done, but like i said not everyone likes a bunch of people debating whether their a scammer or not( esp. when no incident taken place) in an open forum.

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Posted By: Joann

Those are good reasons for not wanting to post the link. I didn't really have any issue with not wanting to post the auction (although I do note that much of the helpful feedback and comments came from people that were looking at both the auction and seller).

Personally, I thought you were pretty dismissive to Steve and aggressive with Dave. Having a good reason for not posting the auction link is unrelated to the tone of the responses to people who were answering a request for help and advice.

JMHO

Joann

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Posted By: Dylan

To respond to the post JMK59 just made. Dave has come off as rude to me on more then one occasion prior to me ever starting this post.
and as for Steve i dont see how me saying that "i dont question the items authenticity" can be taken as rude in anyway! He asked to post a link so i will atleast know what im getting. That to me implies that hes asking if i need help identifying the card, or making sure its not counterfeit. Since i knew exactly what i was purchasing and plus it was graded by PSA i didnt need any help in that way. I think your just fishing with that one. Anyways Darren was a big help in suggesting sending payment via signature confirmation. Which is really the only thing suggested that i can apply to this situation. And he even posted that idea before anyone had posted a link, so there!

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Posted By: Dave

I would love for you to find ONE single thread where I have ever come off rude to you. I dont even think I've ever interacted with you on any threads. Frankly I could care less the reasons you don't want to post about whatever auction you won. I'm fairly easy going and I would imagine quite a few on here would vouch for that. For you to come off with the comments about how I am a beginner with T206's and your all high and mighty is amazing to me. If memory serves you've been here two months and have asked some of the dumbest questions i've seen since i've been here....if two months of being into vintage cards makes you an expert over me so be it. I've never been rude to you in the past...I do remember a few threads I started where you would come in with some smart ass comments....who cares. IMO you have some growing up to do.

BTW, the reason I asked to start with if it was the Chance you were talking about was I had some related information on that auction after contacting the seller to start with....because you chose to be a jackass I decided to keep it to myself....have a wonderful day.

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Posted By: Dylan

ohhh big man Dave. I wont respond to a thread you ever post or respond to you in any other thread, i hope you can extend the same courtesy.
Anyways... someone previously posted saying that the seller accepted paypal on some of his other auctions. When i sent a message asking if he would accept paypal and id cover any costs, he responded with "i dont accept paypal period, on any of my auctions. sorry but money order or cashiers checks are the only payments i accept." Weird.

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Posted By: Bill

This thread is simply outrageous. I'm very new to this board and have only posted here and there as I spend more time reading the threads to learn more about the vintage card world as well as drool over some of the cards that you guys have.
It amazes me that somebody comes on here asking for advice and suddenly gives attitude to the people who have vast amounts of knowledge in this area. It could quite possibly be that people wanted to know the auction because, who knows, maybe they as well have bid on one of the sellers cards. Or, as one other poster already stated, they may know something else about the card/seller in question due to previous contact. On this board, it's highly likely as I don't think any vintage card goes unnoticed on ebay by these guys.
These people are more than willing to help out on here, as you should already have noticed. Them asking questions may only be because they need further information to clarify. You should be thankful that people are willing to help instead of getting up in their face.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

In my opinion, if you bid and win you pay for it. Otherwise it's the seller
being scammed. If there were obvious and major signs of scamming (like the card
is an obvious fake) I'd say you can back out after the auction ends, but
there aren't. Questions of seller reliability, feedback and payment methods
are legitimate but exist before an item is won.

Send the check certified. If you can convince the seller to accept PayPal,
that's fine too-- though the seller will be losing money by accepting PayPal.

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Posted By: Denny

Dylan,
Who's Weird? The guy who doesn't except Paypal or the guy who asks for help who bids on a "Zero feedback id" and then gives verbal abuse to someone just wanting to help? Wisdom is humbly obtained, not wise cracked out of another..."Stand up and be recognized"...A Wise man once told me this when an apology was in order

Life's Grand,
Denny Walsh

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Posted By: Cobby33

Bill- Welcome- and get used to it!

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Posted By: Bill

Thanks! I'll post here and there but I think my last post stated what I'll be doing. I'll definitly be asking for advice later!

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Posted By: Steve

My answer to the original question is yes. i have bid on an item from a seller with 0 feedback. he had many items up so i waited to see some feedback before i sent my payment. Once I saw a few friends leave feedback (we collect the same cards) i sent my 18.09 payment via check. after about a month and I did not receive my card i emailed the seller. His feedback was now up to around 30. He claimed to have sent it and could i wait another week. Another week goes by and still no card. He offered me 9.00 saying we should share the burden. I felt like telling him off but figured it was not worth it. a week later my refund came.

Steve

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Posted By: pat

isnt the price a reflection the risk of dealing with the zero feedback bidder who doesnt take paypal?? being a smart guy, i am sure you took this into acct prior to bidding.

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Posted By: Bill

Actually, I had something happen to me a couple of years back, same scenario. I don't remember for the life of me what I paid for or how much anymore but the same deal. I never got my card but they offered me 1/2 a refund. It's quite possible they were just nice people. But that sounds like a nice little scam as well. Never thought anything of it until I just read your post.

Change your socks, drink water, and drive on.