Shoeless Joe... CBS webcast

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Posted By: steve f

This is a few months old, hadn't seen it before. Sad piece.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/10/22/eveningnews/main965256.shtml

* app 3 mins in length. Just click the PLAY button on the video screen.

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Posted By: Bryan Long

and truly one of the sadest stories in baseball history.

Joe needs to be in the Hall of Fame!

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Posted By: Henry Eshelman

Was Joe that guys "coach"?

Thanks, Henry Eshelman

Website:www.freewebs.com/vintagebaseball

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Posted By: tbob

Joe deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, but Joe took the money and in doing so conspired to throw the World Series. He was an ignorant country boy who had no idea what he was doing could result in a lifetime ban or even to be thrown out of baseball for a year. Speaker, Chase, even Cobb, and untold others bet on and threw games, Joe just happened to do it when the spotlight of the world was on him, during the WS.
Buck Weaver, on the other hand, never took a dime, never agreed to conspire to throw the Series, had a great Series. His is the real tragedy of this all, not Joe...

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Posted By: Kenny Cole

Both are tragic, each in their own way. While perhaps not tragic, it is, IMO, completely unjust that Comiskey, the skinflint who precipated the problem, who knew about it when it was occurring, who did his best to cover it up, and who ultimately came out of the deal far better off than the players who he had screwed, had his involvement overlooked and was elected to the HOF in 1939. What a farce.

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Posted By: steve f

Henry asks, Was Joe that guys "coach"?


He was _coached_, but not officially I believe. Joe Anders was a minor Leaguer from SC, didn't make it to the Majors.

Just realized, my kids' dorm in Savannah is a couple of blocks west from Joe's 1909 residence and the Dry Cleaner shop he owned (Now a parking lot) downtown. I asked him to snap a few pics of these locations. He also played minor league ball at Bolton Park in Savannah before the Municipal Stadium was built. Any info on the whereabouts of this ballpark welcomed.

http://www.blackbetsy.com/>

A biased though fact-filled website. Under Pictures/Movies there are short clips circa 1919.

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Posted By: howard

Much of what you hear from Joe Jackson defenders is only partly true or not true at all. For one thing he was not a simple minded country bumpkin. Perhaps he was naive when he entered the bigs, like any other player, but by the time of the scandal he was a grown man who had been around the block a few times. He was probably not a stupid man as evidenced by the fact that he was able to run a business after his ball playing days. Yes he batted .375 & was not charged w/an error in the series but look at the situations. In the three games the Sox won (games they likely did not try to throw) he was 6 for 11. In the other games he was 6 for 21 and in one of those games (game 8) he got two hits when the game was already out of hand. Another hit in a thrown game (game 4) was a fly ball that Edd Roush seemingly should have caught. He clearly hit much better when it "counted" then when it did not. In addition, there were questions at the time about his lackadisical efforts on some plays in the field.

Comparisons to Speaker & Cobb are not fair. There was no evidence that they fixed games. Letters produced by Dutch leonard alluded only to betting. Notions of a fix were voiced solely by Leonard who had an axe to grind w/both Cobb & Speaker. As opponents in 1914 Cobb deliberately spiked Leonard after forcing him to cover first by bunting. Later when Cobb was his manager they did not get along & Leonard was outraged when he was put on waivers. He was also angry at former friend Speaker because as manager of the Indians Speaker did not claim him off waivers.

I have no problem w/putting Jackson in the Hall (or Pete Rose) but not because he was "innocent" but because he was one of the all time greats.

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Posted By: Preece1

For everyone that believes that Shoeless Joe didn't do it, they should read the book "Shoeless Joe Jackson and Ragtime Baseball" which has the actual grand jury testimony in it. Jackson might have batted .375, but he also admitted to pretty lousy fielding that cost Chicago runs. In addition, he admitted that he agreed to fix the games and many of the players only joined the fix when they knew Jackson was "in". If Jackson had done the right thing, the fix would probably not have happened (at least according to the testimony).

I was a believer in Jackson before I read the book. I am not passing judgement on whether he should be in the Hall of Fame. Obviously, baseball has different standards for election that the Football Hall of Fame.