PSA damages cards? Anything can be done? A O/T NON-bashing thread

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

Just a question for the board in general - and not meant to be a PSA bashing thread! Recently I sent a 30+ cards to PSA to grade. All were were in very nice condition and I was expecting the typical... cards that look like a 10 to grade a 9, cards that looked like 9's to grade 8's - and so on. However, I believe PSA damages a few of the cards; 3 especially - and I was hoping the board could give aqdvice and if you have had the same problem. One card in particular is very troublesome. At Ft. Washington, I had GAI pre-grade the card, and it received a 9. I thought the card still had an outside chance at a 10. Since it was going to be for resale, I sent it to PSA. That card came back a 5! How can GAI pregrade a 9 and PSA grade a 5? Something had to be damaged. I also had 2 other cards for sure that came back 5's that should have been 8's at the very least. Now, do I have any recourse? How can I prove who damages what? I followed all PSA instruction on submissions... I packaged between cardboard with rubberbands, wrapped in boubble wrap, etc. I did insure with the USPS but again, how do I prove who damaged what? I'm not going to lose any sleep over some ruined cards, but I will take a small financial hit so I was hoping you all may have some advice.

Leon, if you feel this is too OT, please feel free to delete.

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

Can you SEE the damage or is it possible GAI in their show mode just missed something important?

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Posted By: David Vargha

Do you have the cards back yet? It sounds initially like all three had minute surface wrinkles, which means an instant "5".

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: Anson

David is right. Sometimes the hardest flaw to spot is a wrinkle. And, these wrinkles will immediately drop the grade to a 5 (at the very best). Other, not-so-obvious flaws that will dramatically affect an otherwise nice looking card are: tiny bits of paper loss, erased pencil marks, chipping, etc. Some of these aren't very obvious but will still drop your card down to the PSA 1-2 range.

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Posted By: Anonymous

that makes close to a dozen cards i have heard about in the past month.

I doubt both you and GAI missed wrinkles on three cards..I'll bet they all have very noticeable ones now and look freshly made.

Call Joe Orlando...he'll spin it around and blame your novice eyes...and then tell you a pant-load about how nothing done during the grading process can damage a card.

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

Thanks for your responses! I do not have the cards back yet to see what damage it is. I just was able to check the grades assigned on the website so nothing is in hand to verify. Although this is a vintage forum, I will admit that 2 of the 3 cards damaged were not all that vintage, but more or less wnated to hear all of your opinions on whether I'm SOL or if something can be done. The third was a vintage Bowman. As for there being surface wrinkles or creases, I doubt it. Anything is possible but when I purchase raw cards, I inspect them closely. Also, I do tend to doubt that I missed wrinkles when purchasing, GAI missed them in a pre-grade, and then I missed them again when sending to PSA. I can't say im 100% sure, but I would say I'm 99% sure. I mean, I really thought the card was at least a 9, but had a 50-50 shot of a 10. Receiving a 5 is far from that!

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Posted By: JimB

About 7 or 8 years ago I submitted a raw 1953 Campanella which I expected to get an 8 or 9 on. It came back a six. I couldn't believe it. About 6 months later I submitted it again and it came back 6 again. Finally at a show I did it again and again it came back a 6. I asked the guy who now works for GAI to explain to me why it was a six. He pointed to the most minute wrinkle on the back and said the highest they could grade a card with a wrinkle was a six. To this day I would argue that it is just the unevenness of the cardboard and not a wrinkle. At least they were consistent. I am not saying this is what happened with your cards. Just sharing an experience which may have some relevance.
JimB

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Posted By: David Vargha

Dave, you can doubt all you want, but unless GAI did their pre-grade with a UV light like PSA graded the card, then you are merely letting your hatred of Joe Orlando get in the way of a rational assessment. PSA graders have definitely dropped, dinged and damaged cards in the past. In fact after handling several million cards , I would be stunned if they hadn't. But Dave is right in that if PSA did damage them, you are not only SOL, but will be served up a heaping, steaming pile of bull manure from Joe Orlando should you try to call him to task.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: Rob

I submitted a T206 which should had graded a Ex-Mt come back a VG-EX which got that way from PSA squeezing the card saver like an orange to get the card out, even though I also had the card in a sleeve, leaving a distinct wrinkle in the middle of the back. Makes me much more careful to document what I send to them.

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Posted By: Anonymous

for the rcord...
...I have no hatred for Joe Orlando. I actually think he's a nice guy.

edited typos

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Posted By: jay behrens

Dave, admit it, you have so much hatered for him that you can't see straight and need to edit all the typos

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.