Question about the New Poll

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

I have this serious question for those of you who are voting in the poll:

Given that the general public knowledge is that the T206 Wagner in the poll is worth $135,000+ based on the last auction...

are any of you who are voting on the OTHER cards doing so because you think they are worth MORE than $135,000?

Or are you simply voting with your "heart" because you just think the others are "cooler" than the T206?

Thanks

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

For instance...

if there are really 47 people out there who value the E107 Wagner at MORE than $135,000...

then the SCP auction should be VERY interesting!!!

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Posted By: zach

I voted T206 for the plain fact that its a nice card and it symbolizes vintage card collecting. Sure E107 is nice, but its just an ugly guy in a suit, not even in a uniform. I didn't vote for the Henery R. thingy because frankly I dont really like it and its surrounded by too many questions for me, no offense. The e107 Wags in SCP imo will go for over 100k and then some. I think that the E107 has so many votes because to most its his rookie card and because of its growing legendary status and rairty.

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Posted By: pete ullman

my choice had to do with one thing...eye appeal. I find the e107 and the reccius wagners ugly. Given the choice between those 3...t206 all the way.

pete in mn

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

HAL

I just posted an interesting answer to this question on
the other Poll thread, so check it out.

T-Rex Ted

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Posted By: Daniel Bretta

I voted E107 because I get tired of looking at the T206. I just think the T206 garners way more attention than it should compared to other cards.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

The T206 is way better looking than the others. My assumption was that the poll assumed the card would be kept not sold and therefore market value was irrelevant.

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Posted By: Brian McQueen

I'll always take the e107....gotta back your favorite set and I care very little about the values of each....I ain't ever getting any of them anyways

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

but given a choice of these three, I'd vote for the T206 on the basis of looks. Shouldn't at least ONR card of an athlete show him doing something--athletic??? I agree that the E107 is just a picture of an ugly guy in a suit. The T206 is at least an inertresting-looking guy in a suit. I can hardly see his face on the Reccius.

I KNOW all these cards are historically significant, and very expensive--I just don't happen to be nuts about any of them, as pictures.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Hal, everyone knows what these cards are worth. If people were voting simply with their investment portfolios in mind, there might have been a FOURTH choice, a pile of cash, or perhaps a STUDIO apartment in a bad part of Harlem. If deciding on value only, the crappy apartment in Harlem would be the obvious first choice. I think it's CLEAR based upon the results that people voted REGARDLESS of value and simply voted on which card they liked the most. I personally liked the E card the BEST because the other two are beaten to HELL and visually it is the NICEST.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

OK, Jeff...

if you are right...

how about telling us RIGHT NOW how much that E107 is worth and how much it is going to sell for in December's auction.

You may not like to talk about "money"...

but sometimes we have NO CHOICE when a card is FOR SALE.


My question was a SERIOUS one.

Are there people out there who think the E107 will cost $135,000+ in the auction?

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Hal, the reason I'm not talking about money is because the poll didn't mention MONEY.

You mentioned money. Again, this forum is TRULY not about MONEY.

I can't imagine ANYONE voted for a card based SOLELY on value.

As I said before, if MONEY were the only object of the poll, there might have been a fourth choice of a CRAPPY studio in Harlem which is worth MORE than any of the three Wagner cards. But then we wouldn't be on a baseball card forum, would we?

I don't know what you do for a living, Hal, but as an attorney, I TRY not to focus all of my discussions on MONEY because that will only EXACERBATE peoples' perceptions of lawyers, that we are all VENAL, money-driven TOOLS. Regardless of how much money I make (or don't make), I try rarely to DISCUSS money unless it is with my INVESTMENT ADVISOR.

So, in the end, I'm fairly certain that anyone who voted for the E card did so simply because they liked its LOOK and not its PRICE TAG.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Jeff: You are "fairly" certain of it... and so was I... which was why I had to ask the question and why I offered the "voting with your heart" as an option.

Of course the hobby is NOT about money...

but the E107 Wagner is going up for SALE next week... not a RAFFLE.

People interested in owning it (like me) are NOT going to be able get the card with anything BUT money.

But as an attorney, I think you would agree that sometimes "information" can be as valuable as money. Thus, someone like me who will be bidding on the card should want as much information from the gurus on this board as possible.




I am also an attorney, so here are a few more relevant factors I considered before posting:

All of the polls in the past have said "Regardless of value..." as a precursor to the general question. This one did NOT, so one might deduct that the pollster had INTENTIONALLY tried to pick out 3 cards with similar values in order to take "value" out of the equation.

Also, the pollster could have chosen a MUCH NICER T206 Wagner for the photo. Therefore, the fact that a very low grade T206 was used for the poll might lead one to believe that the pollster was INTENTIONALLY trying once again to keep the "values" similar and therefore out of the equation.



I could understand your position if I had asked the question like this:

"Are there really any of you idiots out there who would rather have the E107 or the Reccius instead of $135,000? Come on, you guys are stupid! It's all about the VALUE of the cards!"

That is how Adam J Morraine would have phrased the question... and he would have DESERVED your wrath!





But again, since I was serious with my question...

I ask ANYONE if they truly believe that the E107 will go for more than $135,000?? This is important information relevant to an upcoming auction.

Thanks

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Posted By: Patrick McHugh

Hal, I will not be bidding on the e107 Wagner but I also have been thinking about this. I know most people will think i'm wrong but it will not surprize me if that card goes for over 200k.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Thanks. By all means, I am not limiting this question to people who are going to bid on the card.

Most of you have very good ideas about what a card will sell for... and answers like this are informative.

Thanks

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Posted By: warshawlaw

"Dont Know Dont Care" about the values in the poll as I cannot afford any of them and simply picked the card I liked best. That said, I think the E107 will likely hit six figures since (1) there is a craze over the E107 set and (2) lots of big bucks bidders are out there to chase it.

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Posted By: Chris

I wonder how many people who didn't vote for the T206 would actually take that card given the choice. I mean if the cards were in front of them and they had the choice, would they pick the E107? I like that E107 card but I would have a hard time turning down THE card.

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Posted By: leon

I voted for the Recius because I like it the best. I could care less about a T206 Wagner and would have put the E107 2nd. As for what the E107 Wag will bring in SCP my guess is 100-125k....but who knows...

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

I don't have a clue about the Wagner, but I thought Jeff's parody of Hal's posting style was better than Hal's parody of Adam J. Morraine's.

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Posted By: Anson

I would guess that the E107 would come up a bit short of the $135k that the T206 nabbed. But, I also voted purely on the eye appeal of the card. However, I still enjoy the colors of the T206 over the other two.

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Posted By: Daniel Bretta

I think the E107 is going to go for $100,000+ simply because I think there is a trend going on in the hobby where a card's rarity is starting to catch on. Sure you can have a T206 Wagner and you might get two or three shots at owning one every year, but people are starting to realize that you may only get one shot in four or five years or you may never get another shot at cards like these E107's or the T210 Jackson. I personally would take the E107 Wagner and for me it would be about money at this time, because when you have articles being written about the next "Million dollar card", how far off can that be? And how many cards fit that bill....certainly this E107 does.

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Posted By: Harry Wallace (HW)

I think that the E107 Wagner will bring $150,000+ due to its rarity and the huge rookie card craze.

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Posted By: identify7

My vote for the Reccius is based solely on value. I do not feel that any of the options have much eye appeal. And I do not think that value necessarilly correlates with cost.

The Reccius, as the unique representative of a t-card set, is the choice of the three which occupies a logistically significant position in our hobby. Much more so than the more popular Wagner rookie card or the pre-war '52 Mantle equivalent (t-206)does.

Although there is only one confirmed t-231 Fan card, another is reported, and more may exist. The completion of a type set of tobacco cards is an endeavor, in my estimation, which rivals the completion of a HOF rookie set. Therefore (again, in my estimation) neither of the other two Wagner cards has value comparible to that of the Reccius.

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Posted By: Steve Dawson

Although I do like the E107 Wagner and would like to have one, I would prefer to have the T206 as it is the key to the set, and it along with the Plank, are the only HOFers I don't have.


Steve

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

While I fully appreciate that the 1904 E107 B/W set is
considered a standard setter for subsequent T and E-type
cards produced in the early 20th Century, it just does
not have the aesthetic appeal, as say, a T206 set. Com-
bine this with the "mystique" of the T206 Wagner, I don't
see the E107 Wagner (Rookie ?) card ever equalling the
T206 card.

And, this poll certainly indicated this by a factor of ap-
prox. 2 - 1. And, I still think sportscards are more appre-
ciated if the players are in uniform. Suits and Ties are more
appreciated in vintage photos.

Incidently, why hasn't this poll (with 4-digit accuracy) ever
totalled 100 %; currently (187 respondents) = 97.85 %....?

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Posted By: Patrick McHugh

Daniel,that was also my train of thought. The more I think about this over 200k is not a reach. As stated what is the next million dollar card? Don't know but this card could put up a big and i mean very big number.

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Posted By: Charlie O'Neal

Hal,

I believe the Wagner card will go for quite a bit of money if two or three people consider the E107 as Wagner's true rookie card. As far as an estimate on price though it's hard to say since there are so many auctions going on right now and people maybe focusing there efforts on other auctions.

Two Uneducated estimates-
110K including the juce b/c there are a lot of high dollar items being sold at auction right now and people are also focusing on getting everyone else gifts for Christmas and high heating cost.

185K including the juce if two or three people consider it his rookie card and purchase it with the intention for it to go in his/her investment protfolio.

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Posted By: Daniel Bretta

People that can afford to spend 100,000+ on a baseball card do not worry about high heating costs.

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Posted By: Damian

I voted for the Reccius because Wagner is rocking the hat.

Come'on now, you know none of you guys could pull that look off!

And also if you want to copy Hal's responses...



i think you have to



put as many of these



as you can

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

You do have to admit that Wagner is "Pimping" in that cool lid!!

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

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Posted By: damian

wearing Julie, wearing.

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Posted By: H Murphy

voted for the E 107 because it is my favorite set and because you never really see them!!!