Bizarre buyer reactions

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I have just had a very unpleasant encounter with a Canadian buyer of two-dollar cards who threw a hissy fit over my postage charge and everything else he could think of once I agreed to his postal terms. The guy won an 11 card lot to be shipped out of the country. I quoted him the USPS Global Priority rate with no $$ for my materials, time, etc., since I had quoted the USPS priority mail rate for the domestic shipping. He had an absolute fit, accusing me of trying to rip him off, how can it be that much to throw some cards into an envelope, etc. Then the guy tells me that he has a US POB so I can ship there for the $3.85 priority flat fee. I agree, thinking that's it. Then he starts bitching about my refusing paypal, which was in the listing as not being accepted (like I'm gonna accept paypal from a foreign buyer who gets his panties in a wad and calls me a rip off even after I agree to his terms). Then he starts telling me about how I will have to wait two weeks for his check to clear, making it clear that because I am such a jerk for not accepting paypal, I can wait for my money. The guy was so rude that I finally said the hell with it and cancelled the transaction. This horse's ass was so belligerent out of the box that I have to post some of his emails (redacted to conceal identities); maybe you can get a kick out of them:

I just see you want to charge me $8 to mail this to canada. These are 11 cards which can be simply stuffed into a regular letter and mailed to me. You should be able to mail these to Canada for $4 U.S. I don't need them sent in a gold box. I also have a U.S. address where you can mail them to me for the $3.85 fee. I don't want to be ripped off on postage. If you want to give me a hassle about this just send the cards to the 2nd place bidder. I really don't like people who try to overcharge on postage. If it indeed costs $8 to send these 11 light cards to Canada by REGULAR MAIL then you can send them to my U.S. address. Look at my feedbacks. Send me your paypal account name and I'll pay you immediately. Otherwise, give me the CORRECT postage to Canada and YOUR name/Mailing address and I'll mail payment to you in the U.S. or get you to mail it to my U.S. address Thanks.

HI. I e-mailed you about this so I'm going to have to go over this
again.
1) Can I pay in paypal. Otherwise I want to send U.S. cash or a U.S.
personal cheque. I don't want the hassle of getting a money order and
paypal makes things a lot quicker/safer. If you're going to force me to get a money order you'll have to wait as I'm tied up with a local election for the government this week.

2) More importantly: I want you to give me the CORRECT postage to
canada. I am going to the U.S. tomorrow to pick up some items and,
time permitting, I will go to the post office and confirm the cost of mailing a simple envelop with 11 light weight cards in them to Canada. I know full well it doesn't cost $8 U.S. to mail this to Canada by regular mail. The most it should cost would be around $4.

3) If you're going to try to rip me off on postage I would ask you to
send these to my U.S. address which is in Washington. Get back to me on these questions and hopefully we can work this out.

I really get very mad when people try to "pad" mailing costs.

If it's too much hassle for you to give me the correct postage to
Canada and if you won't send this to my U.S. address then I'm afrair this transaction will not go through.

I want the cards and will pay you, but not if you're going to charge me double what the actual mailing cost is to Canada.

Look at my feedbacks. I'm one of the top buyers out there.

If this all is too much of a hassle , then sell the cards to the 2nd place bidder. I can live without them.

I won the bid fair and square and only ask that you charge me the fair postage rate - to either Canada or the U.S.


If you're a lawyer you should be smart enough to know that this doesn't cost $8 to mail.

I don't care what any ebay calculator says. There is NO WAY something like this costs $8 to mail through a simple letter to Canada - unless you're sending it registered .

Tomorrow when I get back from the U.S. I'll have the exact mailing costs so whoever told you to use this ebay calculator was WRONG in their thinking.
Something's wrong here and I think whoever does your ebay work is 100% incorrect when mailing a simple letter to Canada. When I'm in the U.S. tomorrow I'll be taking 11 cards with me and an envelop to find out what the true cost is - not the $8 figure that someone at ebay is giving you.

To be trurthful, I probably shouldn't even be buying this as I know you've been given wrong information on the postage and a lawyer I feel you should doublecheck on this. Maybe have your secretary go to the post office with a simple envelop and ask what it costs to mail to Canada. The reason I'm so hung up on this is that I know full well the $8 figure is 100% wrong.

By the way, the cheque I send you will be in U.S. funds, as you requested, but since it is drawn on a Canadian bank in u.S. funds it probably will take 2 weeks to clear. So you'll have to be patient. All this hassle for a $22 item which could have been done instantaneously if you had paypal and if you had charged the proper regular envelop mailing to Canada, the figure you gave me which makes no sense - especially since I had gotten an action figure sent to me here for $8 and a simple envelop to Canada just doesn't cost that - unless it's gold plated

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Posted By: Ben

That's just terrible. I think you did the right thing by cancelling the transaction, I certainly would have done the same. For future reference, could you let us know this loser's ebay ID? Then all of us will know to steer clear in the future. Sorry you had to put up with all that BS, Adam.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

The above is a composite of several emails I got this morning.

This guy was going to go to the PO with a package to see what it cost to ship after I'd already agreed to give him his rate.

What's wrong with people that they have to come out firing nukes?

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Posted By: david

i have had a lot of transactions like this. people piss and moan after the auction when you tell the the costs for shipping, especially overseas buyers. as a result i now only ship to the us. i hate to say it but all of my bad experiences on ebay have been from foreign buyers and from some rednecks from the south.

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Posted By: steve k

<<< Tomorrow when I get back from the U.S. I'll have the exact mailing costs so whoever told you to use this ebay calculator was WRONG in their thinking. >>>

He doesn't want to overpay for postage which is fine, but if your auction states to use the ebay postage calculator thing, then that is what the buyer agreed to and what must be used.

I always list EXACT postage charges to avoid crap like this. And I only sell in the US.

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Posted By: vetekbob

It is wrong for him to hassle you like he has over shipping. All his whining and crying is simply because you wouldnt take paypal and it seems he thought he could persuade you to do so after the fact. If he was decent, he would have made inquiries before he even bid. Its good you stood your ground.
As to the posters comment about rednecks from the south, I resemble that remark lol ( just kidding) Just because my idea of celebrating the fourth of July is inviting friends over and each of us taking turns putting aliminum foil in the microwave and having our own fireworks doesnt mean I am a redneck :P

basicgreatguy@hotmail.com

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Posted By: Ben

What makes crap like this even worse is that it reflects poorly on Canadian ebayers like myself, who are noticing an increased amount of "US only" auctions.

Remember folks, correlation does NOT imply causation! Just because a few transactions with international bidders may have gone awry doesn't mean that future transactions will be the same way. Keep your ebay auctions open to international bidders....please

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Posted By: Myron

In case anyone didn't catch it, that was $8 to Canada.

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Posted By: jay behrens

The only way I will ship anything internationally is Global Priority. This is only way to be able to track the package and know that it was delivered. This ensures that both parties can see the item has been shipped and delivered. No questions about did you ship it, did you receive it. If the buyer doesn't like it, too bad. It's clearly stated in the auction and I have no desire to wait up to 2 months fora transaction to close because someone wants to save money on postage. If there is a problem, you have passed the eBay time limit for any sort of resolution.

Jay

I like to sit outside drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home I would be arrested, so I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: Max Weder

I can only echo Ben's comments as to sellers limiting access to US buyers. It seems very myopic for the sellers to limit access to US bidders only. (I also wonder if promoting such actions by ebay constitutes a violation of NAFTA, but I will leave that for any trade lawyers to comment on). In several instances, I have had my bid blocked electronically by sellers who won't sell to Canada. In some instances, the seller has potentially cost him or herself hundreds of dollars, given my maximum bid. The irony is that I have a US shipping address, and routinely get items shipped there, so the seller was simply blocking my Canadian email address. (I have now registered another ebay name with my US shipping address to avoid this problem)

The reverse of course is also true: I can't count the number of times I have had to explain to US buyers that Canada does not have a media rate for books and that it did in fact cost $6US to ship a book. I have managed to overlook this, and will continue to sell to US buyers

Max

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Posted By: martin dalziel

I've done a lot of business internationally, chiefly buying.

For $22 worth of cards i'd have done what the guy suggested and put them in a regular envelope, stuck a 60c stamp on it and let them be on their way - with the understanding that if they arrive mangled or not at all then that was at the buyers risk.

There really wasn't any need for the buyers smart alek comments and the such. Simple respect goes a long way - its amazing how many people lack it.

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Posted By: Chris Mcalister

I HATE BEING HARRASED. I FEEL FOR YOU.I HAVE 100% FEEDBACK BUT WOULD HAVE CANCELLED THE TRANSACTION TOO.THIS PERSON SOUNDS UNREALISTIC AND WOULD PROBABLY GIVE YOU LESS THAN POSITIVE FEEDBACK ANYWAY.

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Posted By: Chuck R

If you use toolhause.org to check the buyer's negative feedback you'll see that this is not the first time he has been involved in this sort of dispute...probably just as well for both parties to move on from this transaction.

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Posted By: Elliot

Two lawyers...what a recipe for a disaster.

As a Canadian, i sort of understand what the purchaser was driving at, although i deplore his tactics. So many sellers jack up the shipping costs to Canada then only put the cards in a regular envelope (which only costs a few cents more than shipping within the U.S.).

PayPal is also a problem for us Canadians, as our addresses can not be confirmed, fortunately most sellers do not seem to be concerned as long as we have good feedback.

The purchaser, since he buys frequently from the U.S., should have a bank account set up at a U.S. bank, since he is correct that sometimes it takes quite long for cheques drawn in Canada to clear. Additionally, if i was a U.S. seller i would refuse to accept these cheques as it is quite possible that my bank would charge me a fee for clearing the cheque.

I think the real problem here has nothing to do with the Canadian/U.S. issue, but rather the purchaser just being "one of those types of buyers" that we all run into. Also, Adam is one of those guys who gets his back up quickly. (Adam, you know I love ya)

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Jay: That's why I use priority mail too; I can electronically prepare the label , pay the postage and track.

Elliot: au contraire, mon ami Canadien; I not only did not get my back up, I purposely responded very politely and offered to send the cards to his US address for $3.85 priority w/no $$ for my effort/materials. I offer the same deal for any domestic sale. I only cancelled when he kept on ranting.

Max: don't worry, I don't tar and feather all Canucks with the same brush. I've had a lot of successful deals with Canadians and fully intend to continue selling there.

$8 to Canada? Yes, that is the global priority rate for up to 1 lb. As the old saying goes, you could look it up.

One thing I will say to my northern neighbors: It is a simple thing to get US$ money orders at your post office. You can also open an account at a bank with a US branch and get a check drawn by your bank in US$. My bank and most others charge a hefty fee to process a foreign check.

I would never, ever throw cards in an envelope unless the buyer unequivocally agreed to be responsible. This jerk was just the opposite kind of guy; it was always going to be my fault.

This points out yet again the pitfalls of Paypal. Say I'd been naive enough to let this guy paypal me the money. I KNOW that the cards would somehow be no good and I'd end up eating them when Paypal froze my account pending the dispute.

Finally, and I think this is why I posted all of the dreck I received this a.m., there is a great need nowadays for civility and communication. I am appalled at how quickly people jump to accusations, demands and threats when a simple polite question would suffice. You really do catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

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Posted By: john/z28jd

I think its just Canada.Ive had 2 problems with ebay auctions out of over 1000,both from canada and my total amount of ebay transactions from canada since, 0.

I would buy from people i know like Ben and Elliot,but otherwise its US only.First thing i look at on ebay auctions once i open the page is location now, then feedback.Besides my own problems,ive heard numerous other problems including my brother who is also 1 for 1 in the bad canadian transaction column

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Posted By: Max Weder

Some of the reasoning in this thread would fit nicely in a chapter or two of Gulliver's Travels, but perhaps it's best to visit this link, in case we've forgotten the words to Blame Canada:

http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/PrintLyrics?OpenForm&ParentUnid=9E94B82AED5BC99248256DD600151A00

I can only reiterate that a vendor who chooses to limit his or her sales to the United States is reducing revenue. I'm curious as to whether vendors such as john/z28jd who refuse to sell to Canada also refuse to buy from Canadian vendors.

And remember, that without Canada, there would be no Imperial Tobacco, World Wide Gum, Holland Creameries, Maple Crispettes and Babe Ruth's first home run as a professional (well, that last one probably would have happened sooner or later anyway)

Max

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Posted By: john/z28jd

Max im not really a vendor in that i havent sold a card in years except to friends and usually thats at a discounted price anyway. I do not purchase from Canada unless its someone i know.Ive seen you post here alot and wouldnt hesitate to complete a transaction with you,and of course Elliot and Ben as i mentioned. Between my brother and I, 3 for 3 in the ebay problems was enough for me,besides the other stories ive heard since.

PS C46 cards among vintage cards have my favorite design/borders and altho i dont like portrait cards that much,i would collect that set,and probably will as soon as the Old Judge card supply dries up

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Posted By: Max Weder

John

Remember that Old Judge Pop Smith, born in 1856, was a Canadian, born in Digby, Nova Scotia (technically, Canada wasn't a dominion until July 1, 1867, and Digby of course being home to the world famous Digby scallops, and being 10 miles from where my spouse grew up), so there is evidence of further good from Canada.

Max

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Posted By: Scott Forrest

fortunately, 99% of my ebay dealings are smooth;however, I just had a really weird one. I sold 8 worthless starting line-up figures for $5.50 - not even worth the trouble, especially to pack. But I thought maybe someone on ebay could use them to fill in collection gaps, etc., so I basically sold them for the shipping cost and ebay fees. So what happens? The winning bidder sends a money order on May 6, I receive it on May 12, I ship on May 14, he turns me in to ebay on May 16 for failure to deliver the goods. What a prick.

This coming a few days after I sold a baseball card for 9 cents and the guy used Paypal to pay for it (you do the math).

The remaining items with values this low will either be donated to charities or tossed in the trash.

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Posted By: john/z28jd

Oh theres plenty of good things from canada,Steve Nash the obvious overwhelming choice for mvp in the NBA comes to mind.Thank you for him...and Jason Bay,last years rookie of the year


Altho this wasnt a problem with ebay directly,it was someone who contacted me about 1969 topps cards thru ebay.I was selling them by team and he asked about the Cubs which was a team i didnt list.I gave him a list of 7 cards i had and said they were average gd/vg condition with some lower,some higher.I then found another FAIR condition Ron Santo card and i threw it in for nothing and icluded that on the note.The buyer complained that the Santo card was in bad shape and some of the other cards had creases.He couldnt grasp the fact that GOOD is a grade used for cards.I gave him his money back instead of arguing along with a print out of card grades with the appropriate ones highlighted

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

who sold me a fine C57, but charged me $50 insurance on the $500 card, and then sold me three dreadful, soft-cornered cheaper cards which they had called ex-mint. I'm tempted to publish their name....

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I have no problem sending to Canadian buyers as long as they don't ask me to lie on the customs forms.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I will not do customs fraud. Canadian buyers, and there are a number of them who've asked this of me, really need to understand that paying the customs is part of their cost of acquisition. Please don't ask us here to perjure ourselves to save a few bucks.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

.

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Posted By: Max Weder

Adam

I agree wholeheartedly with the Customs issue. For vintage cards, the taxes a Canadian pays at the border are equivalent to the taxes the Canadian would have paid had he purchased the item in Canada from a domestic vendor. In other words, there is equal treatment to the imported purchase versus a domestic purchase.

Strangely enough, many US vendors will automatically understate the value, without anyone asking. Again, another practice to avoid.

From personal experience, I have had my parcels opened a number of times, in order to confirm that the stated value by the vendor conforms to the invoice on the inside (amazingly, some vendors do include an invoice in the parcel, while declaring a different value, again without being asked by me)

Despite Julie's comments, it is not a matter to be treated lightly, especially when merchandise of considerable value crosses the border. It is a criminal offence, and has penal consequences, including fines and a criminal record.


Max

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Posted By: Max Weder

Julie

I must give this admonition at least once a month to a client who asks how the revenue service is going to uncover his off-shore income. He then goes on that given such a small possibility of being discovered what is his incentive to report the income, and asks why not reporting that income is such a big deal. I simply reply that if I shoplift at a store and don't get caught, I'm still a criminal. I guess we all have our own moral compasses.



Max