Board Direction

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

Hey Folks,
It's only been a few days of moderating and it seems like a few years. I really didn't fully understand the issues that are here. A few of my pet peeves are infighting and people not taking accountability for their actions. To that end I will NOT tolerate instigating fights or personal attacks. If you want to criticize someone, including myself, do so in an adult manner and it will stay up and unlocked. Don't do it in adult manner and you might be stuck with what you said, without the edit function. I am also seriously entertaining doing away with the other board. I have spoken to several folks who's opinions I respect. (and some I barely do ) and have some further thoughts. I want feedback on the following scenario. Have this 1 board, and it's front page segmented (maybe referred to as hyperthreading). The potential segments could be:

a. Pre-WWII Baseball cards
b. Post-WWII Baseball cards - 1980's
c. Memorabelia
d. Photography
e. everything else

Each segment could have it's own B/S/T thread.
I know I said I would not try to change too much too fast but if we can make it better, and the collective group agrees, why not? Your thoughts please....and sorry for the issues....One other thing. There was some very advanced programming in the old B/S/T thread that can not be duplicated by myself or Brian McQueen so regardless of anything else some changes can not be avoided.......regards all.......your collecting buddy...

[Archive]

Posted By: Bryan Long

and enjoy other collector finds and learn some information. What you decide is fine with me. It would be nice to have only one board but if things get beyond what I want to read then I'll just leave - no harm no foul. I agree that some things are taken too far and people begin to attack other people for really no reason at all but I just skip over those and move on. This is great place so far and I'm sure that your choices on what to do will work fine or everyone - if not then they can leave. Keep up the good work leon!

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted

I like the idea of one board with multiple areas of discussion as outlined in your post. Then each can pursue or ignore each area according to their specific interests.

Ted
He who so shall, so shall he who!

[Archive]

Posted By: Kevin Cummings

Leon:

Frankly, I'm not seeing a whole lot of difference between two (or more) separate boards and "one" board (or front page anyway) partitioned into logical segments/threads/links.

Maybe my ability to think "outside the box" is hampering me.

As long as the content remains segregated, people will still have to navigate in some fashion to those areas that interest them the most rather than just clicking on a thread header that is staring them in the face.

Personally, either way is fine with me.

Kevin

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

I am soliciting feedback to try to get better. Ya'lls opinions are very important......I guess in the end I am striving for a little more focus to whatever we decide...and the best way to get there..Also it has been suggested to go back to just one board and one segment and ask for more focus? thanks again

[Archive]

Posted By: jay behrens

Leon, as you know, I am all for this format. I'd suggest adding 2 catagories, autographs (since there seems to be way more than enough people into that here) and eBay alerts to cover scam alerts, bogus auctions, etc. that way everyone can have fun with their favorite reprint auction and other general eBay stupidity or mention free listing days.

I am ssuming that general discussion area would be the place to talk about off-topic stuff.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

[Archive]

Posted By: Hal Lewis

I vote for ONE BOARD with SUB-sections.

[Archive]

Posted By: George

This Baseball Card Collecting Forum seems to be more confrontational and controversial than a meeting of the UN General Assembly to discuss the situation in Iraq. When you finally get it ironed out, perhaps you should offer your services to Kofi Annan.

Have you considered asking all respondents to submit their college transcripts, so we really know who has a Masters degree, and who does not?

More importantly, does anyone really know why T206 Eddie Plank cards are so scarce?

[Archive]

Posted By: Ben

I think one pre-threaded board, each category with its own old style "bump to the top" BST thread, is the most ideal situation for all. It eliminates the problem of off topic posting because off topic posts would be allowed in one of the categories. Also, we'll be able to engage in more focused discussions in a number of specific areas of interest. I think Jay's two additional category suggestions are good ones as well.

[Archive]

Posted By: Glen V

I'm all for the multi-threaded board. Sounds like it should work well, and if it doesn't we can always go back to the current format.

[Archive]

Posted By: Gilbert Maines

In my humble opinion, I think that our current situation is ideal.

We have a "cards only" board, a "game used" board, and Bill's old (or is it properly called the Net 54?) board which is a catch all for cards and memoriabilia related topics. If, for example, the autograph collectors feel too bogged down by non-related discussion; well they could similarly start their own focused board, as can anyone else.

I think it will become too cumbersome by trying to be all things for all people. Heck, I collect non-sports cards, coins and other things. Why not include threads for those? Wait, I know why. It would be beyond a reasonable scope of coverage.

I also vote: do not include post war cards anywhere, for the same reason. Eventhough I also collect them.

Have fun. Its only cards.
Unless you let the other stuff in.

[Archive]

Posted By: jay behrens

My original thought was to suggest the elimination of the post WW2 area, but many people on this board also collect 50s and 60s cards, so it only makes sense to give them an area to post about that stuff. Pre-Donruss/Fleer seems like a good logical cutoff that group.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

[Archive]

Posted By: Julie

If everything has to be compoartmentalized, so be it. I think it's stiff and boring. I love looking at the number of posts in a thread, and all of a sudden there're 72, and I think "Huh? What did 72 people have to say about THAT?" And I click on it, and I find that the last 36 posts are about something else entirely!

But apparently, it drives some people nuts, so go ahead and compartmentalize.

The B/S/T column sure works--both of them. Sold my expensive card in 2 days.

[Archive]

Posted By: Eric B

I think your idea for sub sections would work well. I also enjoy collecting 50's and 60's and would benefit from a b/s/t thread for those cards as well as pre-war. Thanks for taking the time.

Eric

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian McQueen

In my opinion, whether you have seperate forums altogether, or one forum split into subsections, it's all pretty much the same thing. Either way it's dividing content up into individual forums. However I would rather see the utilizating of prevailing links between forums the way we have it now as opposed to additional index pages placed in front of the main forum pages. The problem this creates is, the more you split things up and the more "index pages" that are thrown in to break up the forums, the more "clicks" a person will have to go through to read all the information they are interested in. This can get burdensome in a hurry and sort of wears on ones enthusiasm to check the site for new updates. For instance, I am not a fan of the BST thread on this particular forum as to read everything I am interested in, I have to click on 3-4 different forums and then click on each individual post one at a time. I would much rather have the set up on the new site where you have one "click" and then a quick scroll to the bottom to catch all the new stuff. Now suppose we equate this to the forum as a whole and the whole thing is split up into the aforementioned 4-5 catagories. If I'm interested in several of the catagories, I'll have to do that much more work just to make sure I don't "miss out" on anything. This duplication of efforts has already been brought up several times as one of the largest complaints people have.

Obviously having everything in one forum isn't working for us as we've had a growing number of problems and concerns as of late. Having to sift through a large amount of threads that aren't of interest is currently a problem on the forum. I'm thinking though, if things were simply divided up between two or three distinct catagories, similar to the way it is now, then that cuts down on the number of posts altogether in each forum and is less people have to search through. Right now we are currently headed in that direction, however the problem is that individuals are posting about vintage cards on two different forums. That is a big cause for two of the biggest problems I'm hearing about so far... 1.) Too much information to sift through and 2.) duplicating efforts in reading and posting across both forums.

I think Leon said it best yesterday...in a perfect world, we would have one site devoted to vintage cards and the other devoted to everything else. I feel that if all vintage card related material is held on one forum, those interested in Memoralbelia, non-baseball items, etc....won't have to sift through all of that content on their side and vice versa for the New Vintage Cards forum. I think that's a little more "restrictive" than we'd like for the time being, however I'd like to see us move in that direction and see if we still have these same issues.

Just my 2 cents....

[Archive]

Posted By: davidcycleback

I like the single posting area (the traditional way, everything in one spot), but won't argue if it's changed-- as long as the topics are easily navigated from the front page.

I recommend a section where people can talk about old football/boxing/other sports stuff too. That could build into a nice area where they aren't heckled by the baseball collectors-- and those folks could use a nice chat area too.

[Archive]

Posted By: Josh K.

Leon,

I agree that one board would probably be better if pre threaded. If you dont want to prethread, then I would vote to keep two boards. As long as there is one place where I can primarily read, discuss, learn about cards, I will be happy.

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

Hi Leon,
As you know I have taken a sabbatical from the board due to an unkind and unprovoked personal attack against me, but hey, you can't hold a grudge forever and I told you I would come back again one day, so now is as good a time as any. What is my opinion about all this? For starters, go back to one board. I know you want to focus mostly on cards but you have a large group of lurkers and posters with a diverse area of interests, and people have a right to participate in any topic that is of interest to them. It is likely the majority of posts will be about vintage cards anyway, since vintage cards are so popular today. If collectors have other interests, let them express themselves as they choose. This is what they most enjoy to do. Each thread has a title and everyone recognizes from a cursory glance whether or not it is a subject that appeals to them. It only takes a few seconds, and then one can just move on to a new one. As far as the personal attacks, while I find them abhorent and infantile, I don't think they are going to go away unless you Leon wave your magic wand and with a press of the delete button make them disappear. You can't change someone's demeanor, but as owner you can make them disappear. You might even want to turn the board into a police state, and make collectors disappear, never to be heard from again, but perhaps that is a bit too severe. As far as personal attacks go, I have been reading the Josh Evans and Dave Bushing posts closely. Are those personal or professional attacks? A little of both I guess, but do you delete them? I don't think so, because those who read them will learn a great deal about the business and about human nature, too. So what's my conclusion? Go back to one board, rule with a gentle hand, but feel free to pull the plug on anything that hurts someone personally and at the same time offers nothing worthwhile to the reader. I too will disappear again, for good this time, if I am attacked in the manner that I was. And I think you might consider banning posters who offer nothing useful and are on the board merely to vent their spleen, air their personal frustrations, and make a fool of themselves. We talked about this, it's in your hands. Your friend, Barry

[Archive]

Posted By: Peter Thomas

would be my vote. The personal attacks are simply inappropriate for this board, discussion and disagreement are fine. In terms of the card compartments, I would have a pre Goudey, Goudey to 59. I have never seen a lot of Goudey and Playball intrest on the board and I think that up through the fifties could be grouped with them. I personally have no interest in anything after 50's, but then I'm older than most. Leon I have no idea how you keep all of your activities going, but as I just said I'm older than most. Best - Peter

[Archive]

Posted By: JimB

My vote would be to keep it as it is now or return to one forum. I know I learned a lot off the board on topics I may have have encountered if it were too compartmentalized. My inclination is to go straight to the card board since that is what I collect, but when there is a single forum, I occasionally read about related issues of vintage baseball memorabilia, etc. I agree with Peter that going past 1959 is not necessary for this board. Even that is later than most people's interest here.

As for the B/S/T, I find the link so much easier to sort through than the monthly thread. I can go straight to the area I am interested in rather than having to scroll through 100 posts.

Leon, thanks for your hard work at making this the best possible sight.

Jim Blumenthal

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe P.

A seperate section for message editing for those of which that are blessed with ever changing thought patterns.

Since the beginning of time, it is a known factor that God's gift to man, the female, was given the God given right to change her mind whenever it pleased. .... thus the saying, ... "it's a give".

Having said that.
Let's not forget the gifted.
Thus a seperate section for message editing.
Where they can change their thought patterns as often as they please. --

[Archive]

Posted By: dennis

i like the idea of including baseball cards from 1946 thru 1980.i think most of us all bought these as kids and alot of us still do buy and sell them.i think many posts would be in this area as we all started out collecting these.for those who don't like post war the pre ww2 card board is already up and running.and a third for everything else baseball (ebay.auto's.photos,hall of fame voting.or OT).

[Archive]

Posted By: Glen V

Its interesting to see people write that sub-topics would be harder to deal with, yet splitting up the Buy/Sell/Trade thread make it easier to look at what you want. It seems a number of people would be happy looking at only the posts they want.

As for the Buy/Sell/Trade thread, I like it split up, but wish it was recycled every month. Now, once your post gets below the top part of the page I doubt its rarely seen again. When was the last time anyone looked at page two. Do we have to re-post each month so our posts stay near the top and get seen?

[Archive]

Posted By: jay behrens

Joe P., could you please stick using your name in the "your name" area. Your current "cute" name in this thread eats up 3/4 of the page and now everyone's post is about 15 characters wide. This makes for a lot of unneeded scrolling and makes the thread hard to read. Your cooperation would be greatly appreciated. Thanks


Joe, thanks for changing it,

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

[Archive]

Posted By: john/z28jd

I think one board with subsections is the best idea.Some people are only interested in a few things and they would have an easier time finding the particular info theyre looking for.

[Archive]

Posted By: steve k

I think the "segments" is a very good idea. Especially with the baseball cards. Segmenting should satisfy everyone here, as well as bring in new members.

[Archive]

Posted By: Scott M

Leon and Brian,

Count me in the group that would rather see one URL/board as a jumping off point to several different sub-sections...

Having the two boards hasn't been that bad but, as others have pointed out, I've felt the need to bounce back and forth between the two quite a bit. I think having one starting point with subcategories that we can choose to enter or not would be a bit easier and, hopefully, easier for you guys to manage rather than dealing with the two forums separately.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jimi

I love the forum as is, but add in the B/S/T thread up to 1980....not into the '80s, but stop at 1980. The Standard Catalog lists 1980 as the last year as vintage as well. I think many of us can start a thread of just arguing about when "vintage" actually is. I'm 26 years old, so my perspective of vintage is much different than many people here. As a collector of HOFers from all years (pre-war - current), it's nice to hang out in the best forum available, run by the best guy around, and optimize my collection in one place. As a teacher, I have to supplement so much crap with state standards, school curriculum, and fnding time to just have fun! We teachers want the whole package in one shot! Ok, I'm really stretching now.

Keeo up the great work, Leon!



Jimi

[Archive]

Posted By: Julie

I guess lemke chose 1980 because after that, everything broke loose (Topps lost its monopoly). But , though I do collect some modern cards and photos (esp. photos), I think '80 is NOT vintage...

[Archive]

Posted By: Jimi

...with you, Julie. I've considered 60s to be "somewhat vintage", and 50s and earlier to be vintage.

Jimi

[Archive]

Posted By: Ben

Ok, then Jimi, wouldn't you agree that 70's and 80's "non-vintage" cards would belong in the "off topic" or "everything else" category of a pre threaded forum? It's important that this forum doesn't loose it's true identity, which is pretty much pre-WW2 baseball cards.

I think categories will really help create focused discussion in the main areas of interest, while also allow people to spout off in an off topic category of the forum. There are so many personalities around here that would benefit from such an adjustment, and so would the forum as a whole by weeding that stuff out of the relevant, on topic card related stuff that we're all here for in the first place.

[Archive]

Posted By: Elliot

I can see the pros and cons of going with a compartmentalized forum vs. a one board suits all forum. I think either one is workable, and in any event is not irreversible.

However, I do feel strongly that the topic area should be restricted to pre WWII (with the odd off topic conversation, of course). There are plenty of other forums that deal with the newer cards, and this forum was set up so us vintage collectors would have a discussion place. For as many of us that collect newer cards there as just as many (if not more) that collect hockey cards (for example). If we are going to have a sub-forum for newer cards, could we also have a sub-forum for discussing pre-Shakespearean English (the original forum members will know what this refers to) so I don't have to run around to a lot of different forums and I can find all my interests in one place. Also, could we add a stock market ticker, so when I'm on the board, i can check to see what's happening. Obviously, I know these are silly requests, but my point is where do we draw the line. My opinion is we stay with the original focus of the board, which is what drew us all to become regulars here....that is "pre WWII cards, primarily".

[Archive]

Posted By: Ben

Brian, or any other computer tekkies - have you heard of the phpBB bulletin board package? It's a great platform for a more advanced, contemporary internet forum. And highly customizable. Here's the link to the site: http://www.phpbb.com/

and here's a link to the basketball forum that is php based. Again, we could customize our forum to look alot less "busy" than this one, but just to give you an idea:

http://www.realgm.com/boards/index.php

[Archive]

Posted By: pete

I agree to keep it compartmentalized...I think. It drives me crazy when you click on a topic which seems to be of interest and midway through side conversations dominate the topic...or topics other than the title topic overtake the section.

I'm as much of a geek when it comes to vintage cards as most of you, but sometimes it seems as if some participants have noone to talk to about movies and other unrelated issues...so keep them off!!!!!!!!

Pete in MN

[Archive]

Posted By: Bob Marquette

I vote for one compartmentalized board. Frankly I'd like to see the cutoff date be 1940 instead of 1980, or in the alternative a section for cards pre-1920 would suit me fine. I'd also like to echo what a previous poster said, a section with ebay alerts and scam warnings, and a general bull section session where someone could post and ask where the Forum 54 group is getting together for their dinner, how many are going to Chicago, etc.
tbob

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe P.

However, having said that, I apologize to you.

Why? ... You ask.
I'll tell you why.
Because anytime that I'm pro or against something, on this board it's like the kiss death.
But, let me let you in on a little secret.
I don't take myself, or my hobby serious.
I try to have fun with it, and it works for me.

I ditto your entire post.
Joe

[Archive]

Posted By: barry arnold

and i don't mean me.
i agree with Barry Sloates'comments and I for one am glad to see the wisdom
back again.

best

barry arnold

[Archive]

Posted By: Julie

.........

[Archive]

Posted By: Harry Reddick

edited by leon- you can criticisize maturely or not at all

[Archive]

Posted By: MikeH

One board, any topic, quick and easy, delete the jerks.

Thanks

[Archive]

Posted By: Jimi

Ben. I agree.

Jimi

[Archive]

Posted By: Christopher Johnson

I think you could have a separate pre-thread for personal attacks, name calling, and brutal condescension, sort of a Free-for-all, if you will, where people can get there aggressions out. It could be called "the pit" or "the senate" or something like that.

[Archive]

Posted By: Rob

There should be a little more member information shown - like
date joined, number of posts, possibly even background check
before new members are allowed to log in. And for christssakes,
you should arm the users with an ignore button. That would
make it easier on the admin/owner. At least the users have a
shield until the unwanted garbage is removed. IP addresses
of "problem posters" should be banned from the forum. You can
have a "third warning and you're out permanently" set in a
locked post about the forum rules. Just a bit of advice to
save you from headaches later on. I used to run a BB and IRC
channel about 10 years ago.

[Archive]

Posted By: Cap

I cringe to think of 1980 as 'vintage'. I think the most interesting part of the forum is the chatter among collectibles that pretty much all pre-date us. There are finds lurking in every corner and that's what collecting (and making a profit) is all about. It's about going into a Vermont Antique store, asking if they have any baseball cards and the little old lady handing over a pile of gradable Mayo Plug's and telling the women that they really aren't worth much and 'you'll take them off their hands for a c-note'.

How much could we really talk about when it comes to the 1960's to the 1980's outside of how we felt that day we got that Dave Conception rookie? Ick! It was raining. The smell of cinnamon was in the air. There was Dave on the front of the cello.

Those cards I feel are so ordinary and so lack the mystery of pre-war cards. This will open up a thread that will begin: 'What is your favorite card of the 1970's?' and I'll have to 'Donnie Moore myself' (even though his 1978 rookie card with the script and the colorful pose supsended in animation is like art).

Basically reading all these 'opinions' on how the board should be butchered or left alone, I'm pleased with the way it is now to be honest with you as I actually prefer the Vintage Card Forum because it's...more calm and sticks to the subject at hand. The in-fighting and name calling has to stop here though.

The one thing that this Board has to do is stick to the big three: VINTAGE (I would prefer pre-war), COLLECTING and BASEBALL. If it doesn't touch these three things, it simply doesn't belong and should be deleted. As one person noted on this thread, you should delete the jerks and I have seen a few Leon deletes and I commend you!

If you hyper-thread, that's fine with me as well. This site is great and I look forward to the future (I'm not going to talk about the past, I'm hear to talk about the future).

Cap

Well, I quit my job so I could work alone, Then I changed my name to Sherlock Holmes- Bob Dylan.

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian McQueen

To weigh in on the fighting for a second.....This is not something that I'd hope to encourage or cater to on the forum. Allowing people their own space to be derogatory and hateful towards one another in general not only encourages this behavior but rewards it as well. I don't expect each of you to get along with everyone else 100 percent of the time. I know there are many here who have issues with other members and have those they consider to be "less than friends". I would ask for the sake of our forum that even though you may not all like each other, that you at least respect your peers and those you correspond with on this board. Keep in mind you all have a common bond which brought you here in the first place and that is a passion for this hobby. Everyone wants a forum where they can feel free to express their opinions, offer up knowledge of their own and learn at the same time. Getting to know others with similar interests and developing new friendships are also strong interests among many of us here. For myself, I unfortunately don't know some of you very well and I would like to work on changing that. The vicious debates that I've seen between longtime contributors as well as the inane babble from this latest group of trolls has begun to inhibit all of these things in my opinion.

The sad part in all this is that we have so many who just "lurk"...afraid to actually post for fear of ridicule. Always interested in what others have to say but would never consider offering up any responses on their own for fear of becoming the target of the next overzealous tirade. Other long-standing contributors to this board and the industry itself no longer feel "at ease" or welcome here either. I've already heard from many of you at this point on how you support our newer Vintage Cards Forum as there wasn't any bickering involved on that side. When an issue gets to the point where it affects attendence or participation in either of these forums, I believe it becomes time to address it. While I would love for there to be an "ignore button" that comes with your account setup, I don't feel the technology will allow us to do that. However, know that Leon and I are working to "clean up" the board and we're going to start reacting to and deleting offensive messages faster. My first full day as a moderator was actually just yesterday and I've already suspended two people/trolls if that tells you anything.

This forum is possibly the best online resource for gaining information and knowledge on vintage cards and the like. I'm more than interested in keeping it that way and potentially helping it grow. I consider it a priviledge to work amongst so many great individuals and to be able to contribute to the direction, development and evolution of a resource of this magnitude. I'm very pleased in the way this community came together for Ben and I know that we will continue to do the same for the betterment of our forum. I apologize for the rant....thanks for listening everyone

[Archive]

Posted By: Bill Kasel

and thanks for the c46's! They're great!

Whichever direction is chosen I will follow and adjust to it. I'm just happy to have a resource like this. Five years ago I was buying the new crap with game-used swatches. Thanks to finding this board, and the people involved I've been clean since 2002!

Hello, my name is Bill, and I am a recovering Moderncardaholic.

Bill Kasel

[Archive]

Posted By: robert a

Could we have a separate compartment for Dave Bushing Bashing...please?
robert a

[Archive]

Posted By: T.J. Schwartz

Can't believe it took me so long to find this place. To me, basic vintage is Pre-1972. Pure vintage is Pre-War. Would like to see an autograph section as well. Otherwise, this place is great to hang out in. Blows away some of the joints I PAY to be on! TJS

[Archive]

Posted By: leonl

Hey Folks,
I have spoken to many people about the current and future direction. My mind is made up but I am going to sleep on it and make sure I feel the same way tomorrow. If you collect Pre-WWII Baseball cards you should be happy with the decision.....regards all