"Authentic"

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Posted By: Judge Dred

What is everyone's opinion of cards labeled "Authentic" by the grading services?

Do people agree with this practice?

Do you like the idea of having this service available?

Do people think this will be a problem?

Any predictions on how this could impact the hobby?


I guess I had better define "Authentic":

A card that has been altered (trimmed, color added or some other type of restoration) and then encapsulated by a reputable grading service.

Should the grading service also provide their opinion as to their perception of the alteration?

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Posted By: jamie

authentic is a term also used for hand-cut cards like w516, w512, etc. (at least psa designates them this way). i think qualifying altered cards is a good thing- less likely they'll be floating around unholdered and advertised as 'mint'. mid-range collectors may even create a market for altered/slabbed cards as a cheap alternative

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Posted By: Mark

"A card that has been altered (trimmed, color added or some other type of restoration) and then encapsulated by a reputable grading service."

Who's definition is that? I recently received two cards from GAI: one was labeled "color added" and not slabbed; the other was an old judge with back damage encapsulated as "authentic," but it had not been trimmed or had color added - it was merely below poor due to the severage scrapbook residue (much like those in the $150,000 Mastro lot).

I personally like the authentic grade at least when it comes to high dollar cards. I'm quite happy with my "PSA Authentic-Trimmed" Wilson Franks Ted Williams - I know it's real, even if .05 inches short and it didn't cost me $2k.

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Posted By: qualitycards.com

If a card by a grading company is labeled correctly, I'm all for it.
A vintage card that is trimmed or altered in any way still has some value and would be a worthwhile addition to a collector that cannot obtain a better specimen. Plus if labeled as such, the buyer & seller knows exactly what they are dealing with. I do not see any controversy, this should aid the hobby not be a downfall.

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Posted By: hankron

I don't have a problem with the "authentic" grade. It would be nice if they had qualifiers on the label: "authentic- trimmed," "authentic-recolored," etc. But they would at least have to explain in general on the website the significance of the term, and what types cards do and don't get the grade.

I beleive there can be a variety of grading systems, and one grader doesn't have to mimic the other. All that matters is that the grade is understanable, well explained and the label is accurate. As no grader can be 100 percent accurate, and they know this, I don't beleive that there will ever be a day that a grader doesn't reject a percentage of cards for grading. So, this won't be a cure all, where everything a collector mails in, except reprints and counterfeits, will be returned in a holder. It just allows some to many altered cards to be holdered as authentic.

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Posted By: hankron

I don't know the graders' thinking, but I assume the "authentic" grade is given only upon the card owner's specific request. While the "authentic" label may be desired for a 1869 Peck & Snyder or even an Old Judge, many would consider it the kiss of death for a Barry Bonds rookie or even a 1955 Bowman Mickey Mantle.

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Posted By: hankron

I look foreward to the future collectors who collect only "authentic" labeled cards and are damn proud of it. Those who just want affordable cards that they know are authentic, and don't give a sh*t about the 1-10 rat race.

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Posted By: Joe P.

Is a gift from the Gods.

May the Enhancement and the Adjustment Gods be with you.

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Posted By: john/z28jd

I called for a form of authentic grading a long time ago on the fullcount board and it didnt go over well,i think people have changed their perception of it.My idea was basically if a card was altered grade it as poor with a qualifier meaning for example

psa1[TR] for trimmed card
psa1[CA] for color added etc


A trimmed card is technically a poor condition card no matter how much or how little is trimmed or what condition the rest of the card is.Why not grade it as poor,but tell people why

Anyway,authentic grades are great because people will know in their mind they have a real card[not reprint] and if they are honest they will leave it in the holder and sell it as such

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Posted By: Joe P.

They deserve the scam.

We're talking about newly realized to some, the world of the Enhancement, Adjustment and Stabilization.

A bright new world for potential scams.
Let the future collectors be screwed and slabbed.

Vote YES for legalized stabilization NOW!

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Posted By: PASJD

Does that mean any card is authentic so long as it is not a reprint, even if it has been trimmed, bleached, recolored, had pinholes filled, had corners rebuilt, been "stablilized," had creases taken out, etc. etc.? Do those who advocate this "designation" for lack of a better word propose that the grading service tell the buyer which of these many evils have been perpetrated on the "authentic" card, or does the designation alone suffice? I don't know, something tells me it is opening up Pandora's box.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I look at it from the standpoint of a collector. I'd like to have some of my cards authenticated and encapsulated so they fit with my sets, etc. For example, I have a T3 Jack Johnson that appears to have a vintage trim at one side (I did not trim it so I don't know for sure). I'd love to have that card encapsulated as "authentic" by one of the services with decent holders. I's love the authentication option for low grade cards. I'd rather have the card authenticated than slabbed in a "1". After all, that grade doesn't do me any good anyhow.

One thing I would like to see, however, is consistent application of the authentic label--PSA seems to use it some times and with some cards but not others. If the authentic label is going to be given, why not let anyone have the label for their cards? Why all the big secrecy?

There will always be the question to be answered as to how far an alteration goes before the card is not "authentic"; like pornography, the answer may be that I don't know how to define it but I know it when I see it.

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Posted By: wesley

It looks like I might be in the minority when I say SGC should not encapsulate trimmed or altered cards.

The purpose of encapsulation is to preserve cards, but to also identify which ones are good. If we slab all of them, then are we in essence saying that they are all good no matter how much work have been done to the cards? If this happens we have essentially lowered the risk for the card doctors since the card will end up in a holder regardless. If card doctors do a good job and the alterations on a card are undetectable, the card will slide through with a number grade and encapsualtion. If the grading companies happen to catch the alterations, the card will still be encapsulated. I would think that this will encourage more novice card doctors to try their luck. Why not? There would be no down side.

There is also too fine of a line between cards deemed gradeable and those deemed merely authentic. Apparently those with evidence of soaking and cleaning can only be authentic without a number grade. This would also be true for cards that have been trimmed or have corners rebuilt. Things get a little blurrier when cards have been soaked in distilled water or have been wiped clean of wax. Technically these cards should also be labeled with alterations but many of them will not be. The distinction is to minute. I prefer black and white.

We have learned that some of the more sophisticated restorations that are performed on paper products may be removed at a later date. Afer removal of restorations, will the grading companies still deem these cards to be authentic and untampered with? Technically, the restoration process may have been reversed, but are these cards really untampered with? For some reason, I can see these cards as a nice easy targets for the unscrupulous.

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Posted By: PASJD

I could be wrong, but the first card I recall seeing with an Authentic designation was a partial (literally, it was torn) T206 Wagner that Levi had. I have also seen it applied to hand cut cards where the hand cut was within instead of outside the dotted lines. I think getting an authentic intead of a trimmed etc. designation may be at the option of the submitter.

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Posted By: Robert A

I have a t206 chance with a blank back graded by GA as "authentic." The hard has not been trimmed, colored or any of that malarkey. It might have been hand-cut by someone at the factory, but not altered by a collector. Why don't the grading companies designate these examples as "hand-cut?" It's because they have no clue what they're doing.

Do all the grading companies give the "authentic" designation or just some. I think I've seen auth. in sgc, but not sure.
I've only seen psa auth. on really high-priced stuff.
robert

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Posted By: PASJD

I have seen PSA cards desingated as hand cut, for example 1962 Post Cereal.

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Posted By: leon

I'm not really a PSA advocate but this is ok.........

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Posted By: Mark

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