N172s in the DEC 2004 Mastro Auction

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Posted By: Judge Dred

There are quite a few nice N172s in this Mastro auction. I have got to figure that most people that collect these probably salivate when you see these beauties. I finally figured out where the Delahanty, Connor, Sunday and Keefe cards came from. I'm pretty sure that they are from the Oregon Find. The description indicates the dime size area of discoloration and the tape mark at the top of the card (on the back). This is consistent with a lot (I'm guessing most) of cards from that lot. The marks on the back of the cards are very light and they don't detract from the beauty of these cards. It's pretty neat to find these cards hitting the hobby through different hobby channels. It'll be interesting to see how many different ways these Oregon Find cards find their way into collectors hands. This "Find" is arguably one of the best finds of this issue. The distinctive backs (small dime size discoloration center of the back and a small tape stain on the top of the back) make them easy to identify. To own a card from this "Find" is a novelty in itself.

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Posted By: Julie

and I keep thinkiong it has something to do with Burdick, but--that doesn't make sense, since his stuff was all (?) glued in albums..does anyone else recognizse it?

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

YES, Julie ... it is definitely Burdick.

I have a Wilbert Robinson OJ from the same seller and same collection... and it has exactly the same writing on the back.

Well ... not the exact same .... since Uncle Robby had a different designation number assigned by Burdick...

but there is NO DOUBT that the writing on the back of the McPhee card is from Burdick himself!

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Posted By: Jay Miller

Why do you both assume that this is Burdick's writing? I would assume that the writing was done by Rich Egan. BTW Julie-Burdick's cards were taped into albums, not glued.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

The stuff he put into the Met was glued down, no tape. I know because I thumbed through them.

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Posted By: Jay Miller

Adam--Burdick's Old Judge cards were taped down. The tape was folded in half so the card could be partially lifted up.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Jay:

I was told by the seller of the card that the writing as by Burdick.

I just assumed he knew what he was talking about, since I wasn't buying the card because of the writing anyway!

Stupid question from me: Who is Egan?

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Posted By: runscott

Yes Hal, but the seller isn't Jay Miller so how would he know what Jay knows unless he got them straight from Burdick?

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Posted By: Jay Miller

Rich Egan is the fellow who consigned most of the Old Judge that are in Mastro's current auction and were in his prior auction. There was a whole story written about him---see page 425 of current catalog.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Heck, I can't keep anything straight...

so what if the person who told me that the writing was Burdick's and sold me the card was Jay Miller?



Or maybe Egan sold it to me himself?

Will someone fess up and admit to selling me the Robinson OJ??

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Posted By: Judge Dred

I'm assuming that most of the cards in this Mastro auction came from the same collection. I'm only guessing that the four mentioned cards (from the original post) came from the Oregon Find. There are definitely some "known" pioneers in the card collecting field but then there are also the unknowns, like the guy who collected all of the Oregon Find Old Judge cards.

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Posted By: john/z28jd

Maybe this is a good place to pose this question since his name was mentioned


Does anyone besides me think that Bill Sunday is the most overpriced/overrated old judge card there is.His cards arent that tough but yet they still go for,or at least people try to sell them for crazy prices.He wasnt much of a baseball player besides his speed and sure he was known after his career but the average person isnt going to have a clue who he is.Besides Connie Mack,no one in the old judge set is going to be a name player to the average baseball fan[his cards are tough enough already so the name recognition wont help the price of his cards]

I personally dont think Sunday cards should rank any higher than 1 1/2 times the price of commons because of how easy he is to find.Is there THAT many religious collectors out there that drive the price up

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Posted By: runscott

I can understand how it would be cool to own an OJ with Burdick writing on the back, but why would anyone pay a premium for a beat-up card just because it was found among a really large group of beat-up cards? All of these cards came out of cigarette packs at about the same time.

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Posted By: Julie

glue (or tape) marks ahd gone). I wouldn't call it beat-up. Haven't looked recently, but I doubt if it's going for a "beat-up" price!

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Posted By: Judge Dred

I wouldn't pay a premium for something from a nice find of cards or if it were owned in the past by a renowned collector. However, cards of this nature are interesting in their own right because they are a piece of card collecting history. It's like there's a story behind the card. There might not be another find of cards as significant as this Oregon Find and 20 years from now it would be interesting to say I remember that find of cards, I even have a card from that batch.

As far as the Sunday card goes John is correct, Sunday wasn't exactly a trail blazer (.248 LTBA, only one season with 500+ at bats) like Larry Corcoran (who won 170 games in his first 5 seasons) but Sunday does have an odd cult following - why, I have no idea.

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Posted By: runscott

I was talking about the cards in the Oregon find, which for the most part are fairly ghastly-looking. I would love to have a "Burdick" card, and would pay a premium...not now though - saving for Mastro

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Those suckers (N174) were glued firmly in place, as were the SF Hess cards (I wanted to cry). The only place I saw any hinging was where an example of a card with a printed back was put into place with a stamp hinge so a sample back could be seen.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

The cards which I collect are more often viewed by non-collectors than by collectors. Their interest is maintained by occasionally pointing out "this man became a renouned temperance preacher after his playing days, .." or "this is the man whose season record for homeruns was broken by Ruth, after he he held the record for over thirty years"; this HOFer is known equally for his outstanding play, management innovation, and bigotry" etc.

So I can see some cards being preferred simply for their "conversation value". This preference would include cards from a historical find, cards which have been rebacked by me, cards with interesting notations, and other peculiarities.

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Posted By: Mark

I'm guessing the big lots of 116 are from the Oregon find?

Anyone want to hazzard a guess on what those will sell for?

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Posted By: ockday

the 2 big lots of N172's in Mastro are from the Egan collection.
My guess is they go for about 40-45 thousand each which is similar to what the other 2 big lots of N172's (also Egans)went for in the last Mastro auction.

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Posted By: Judge Dred

I believe that the larger lots and the Cal League N172 are not from the Oregon Find but from the Egan collection. Page 425 of the Mastro catalog has a brief bio about Egan. It doesn't state that the Old Judge cards are from his collection but I do recall hearing that his collection was being split between the past Mastro auction and this auction. The last auction saw the larger lots and the Cal League cards go for about $50K+ per lot.

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Posted By: Judge Dred

Many of the Oregon Find cards are condition challenged but there are a number of cards that are in pretty nice shape. Here is a picture of the typical backs to the Oregon Find cards (dime size stain in the center and tape stain on the top):

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Posted By: Anonymous

..Sunday was immortalized by a classic Grateful Dead tune.

Just like jack the ripper, just like mojo hand,
Just like billy sunday, in a shotgun ragtime band,
Just like new york city, just like jerico,
Pace the halls and climb the walls and get out when they blow.

Did you say your name was ramblin rose?


....it's also interesting to see the Egan collection Browns Champions lot rematerialize less 3 cards.

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Posted By: Harry

Just look at the cards of Hudson, Von der Ahe and Welch. They do not look at all like the examples in the last auction. The last cards were probably just Egan's dupes. I was under the impression that the Egan collection was going to be just as big as the last offering. Except for the Old Judges, it looks as though most of the stuff was run the first time around, but it is still a fantastic collection.

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Posted By: ockday

Definitely different cards...
I won the Browns Champs in the last auction and still have all of them

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Posted By: Anonymous

..when I skimmed through... with the back damage and all. I guess all that "catalog envy" blurred my senses again.
.
.
.
either that or Brother Sunday was right

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Posted By: Mark

Harry, are you saying these look better than Egan's OJ's from the last auction? Anyone know what numeric grades these cards might receive, if any?

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Posted By: wesley

With pencil marks, scrapbook, paper loss and glue marks on the backs, I would imagine no more than FR.

Does anyone know whether all the Cal League cards are going to a single collector?