What do you think...?

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Posted By: Jared

http://www.myccsa.com/Lot.aspx?LotID=45258

I think it is fake but it if was it would be a pretty good fake. What do people think?

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Posted By: Mike

I say it looks just fine. Babe had to kind of squish it in there, between the other word and the stitching, but otherwise I say it's ok. It has a lot of the customery Ruth idiosyncrasys. if it's a fake, it's one of the better ones I've seen. But I would be comfortable buying it.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I wouldn't buy it simply because it's coming from Coach's Corner. And if they really thought it was real they would have a certificate from PSA/DNA or one of the other more respected outfits.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

How come it seems that none of their vintage baseball autographs ever look faded?





The ink on that Dihigo is so sharp it doesn't look like it was written yesterday. It looks like it was written tomorrow.

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Posted By: DJ

You really have to wonder why these consignors don't utilize the other auction houses...the ones that actually get prices for their one of a kind items that only show up in PA.

After all, if any of you had a Martin Dihingo, would you send it to Coach's so you can get less than a grand for one? Also, when was the last time a Dihingo ball showed up in a Mastro auction...but they have one about every month? Hhmmmmmmm...

Life would be too easy if you bought at Coach's prices and sold at Mastro prices. You could earn a pretty good living...on a handful of sales and working only a few minutes a year.

Nice work David...

SCD...you too.

DJ

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Posted By: Jimmy

not a bad item, looks good - maybe if the ball was not personalized you could question the autograph more - and if authentic would get at least 10,000. Just be careful, ask a lot of questions and are there any guarantees or refunds. Most auctions are sold as is , but autographs can be different, Good Luck and take care

Jimmy

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

The angle they took the picture at doesn't really give you a good enough look at the autograph to tell if it's legit or not in my opinion. The fact that it's in a Coach's Corner auction with no real COA is enough for me to tell anyone to save their money.

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Posted By: David Atkatz

there's no point in tiptoeing around it: The autograph is a forgery, as are all their vintage signed baseballs.

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Posted By: Joseph

Remember when it was Smokey's that ran those page-after-page ads in SCD?

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Posted By: Jared

Yeah I am sure that it is a fake but I emailed them about a refund if it doesn't pass PSA/DNA...we'll see what they say. What is it about STAT, are they legit or what? I know they work with Coach's Corner but they how can they get away with authenticating everything that comes their way? Are they corrupt or are they just not good at what they do. And if they are not good at what they do, how do they get customers?

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

If you are unscrupulous and you have been turned down by PSA/DNA, Richard Simon and the other good authenticators you go to STAT. That's how they get business....I went to look at STAT's website and it has a link right on the front page to Coach's Corner....Now isn't that cozy???

And I'm guessing that if these guys "authenticate" for the Babe Ruth museum then the director of the museum is not a collector, and thus unaware that there are more reputable authenticators than STAT.

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Posted By: FGN

Coach's Corner and STAT are a joke . . . a very bad joke for the hobby. And SCD facilitates it all. It's unfortunate, but it seems clear to me that they are dependant upon each other to survive in business. Its almost incestuous. Ted Taylor, one half of STAT has been a longtime contributor to SCD and at the same time he is the PR man for Coach's Corner, then suddenly STAT is formed and becomes one of the most (if not the most) prominent authenticators in Coach's auctions.

Its amazing to me how a thread about Mastro being investigated gets almost 400 posts and this thread attracts such little interest. Maybe people just enjoy beating up on those who produce big shiny catelogs.

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Posted By: Jared

It is surprising that no federal agency has put a stop to coach's corner yet or that no one has investigated it. It seems like an easy case.

Also,


http://cgi.ebay.com/Roger-Maris-Autographed-Baseball_W0QQitemZ260138559820QQihZ016QQcategoryZ2 7260QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

this is another find that looks like it might be real. I quick opinioned PSA and the said its probably a fake but that was looking at the other picture and not the updated new picture. What do people think of this Maris ball?

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Posted By: Rhys

That "R" in Roger is the dead giveaway that it is not real. If you compare that to legit Maris signatures it will be pretty obvious.

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Posted By: DJ

That exact same "R" (doesn't mention if Brown ball) is in the CCSA auction, along with one authenticated by Morales where Maris apparently wrote 61 in 61 on it.

Be very wary about Maris signatures on Bobby Brown baseballs. Brown baseballs were issued on January 1, 1984 and he passed away on December 14, 1985. Two years may seem like a lot of time, but you have to take into consideration that shows weren't prevelant and Maris' deteriotion from cancer in the middle of 1985. Also, Maris wasn't Mantle and the idea of the single signed baseball didn't really play into the minds of the collector until about four years after his death.

The fact of the matter is that Maris signatures on Brown balls are VERY RARE and you simply never, ever see them. You see them on MacPhail balls, but when was the last time you saw a Bobby Brown ball in a Mastro catalog or one authenticated by JSA or PSA/DNA?

DJ

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Posted By: Richard Simon

I might pay about twenty cents for each ball, but that would be my top bid.
--

I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Richard, did you happen to see the Mantle/DiMaggio ball in the other thread? What do you think of that one?

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Someone on the Game Used Universe board just brought up this lot:

http://www.myccsa.com/Lot.aspx?LotID=42348

As pointed out by the original poster, the Treasurer on the bill, Georgia Neese
Clark, became Treasurer in 1949, after both Ruth and Gehrig had died. John
Snyder became Secretary of Treasury in 1946, after Gehrig died.

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Posted By: mr. moses

when an outfit like CC is allowed this kind of activity on this kind of scale..... When they first started advertising under this name I bought an autograph from them that was determined to be fake. In their defense it took less than a month to get a complete refund. I'm sure there are MANY less diligent than I getting spanked on a weekly basis. Where is the terminator when you really need him? Sometimes there are like TWENTY pages of advertising. I wonder if money has anything at all to do with it......

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Posted By: Anonymous

Here is what CC said to me about refunds

"We do have a 30day return policy on all items that do not come with forensic authentication. However due to the conflict of interest between PSA and other authenticators we do not accept returns on items that are already authenticated due to the fact that the consignors have already paid a reputable company to authenticate the items. Less then 5% of our lots are pre certified."


This stuff is junk, there is a Ruth ball selling for over 2k that is clearly a fake.

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Posted By: mr. moses

I'm trying to understand that 2$ bill thing. Is the bill itself a fake? I googled the Clarke thing and she indeed became treasurer in 1949. The bill clearly says series of 1928. If the bill itself is counterfeit or altered than is it a federal (or other) crime? Couldn't they be reported to the treasury or feds? Why would the forger (if that is the case with the autos) use a fake2$ bill? Stooopid or lazy? Whole thing doesn't make a lot of sense to me although the phoney as a 2$ bill seems as if it might be over-the-top irony........


OK. I really don't understand now. After going to the Treasury site and googling stuff I found a similar bill on eBay. 1928 and with same sec. and tres..

http://cgi.ebay.com/The-Series-of-1928-2-bill-first-small-size-currency_W0QQitemZ230151287438QQihZ013QQcategoryZ4 0033QQtcZphotoQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

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Posted By: DJ

Even the European ISITREAL web site has made mention of CCSA's Inventory over the last few weeks.

http://www.isitreal.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=71&func=view&id=7599&catid=8

IMO, the true villain here, outside the obvious is in fact Sports Collector's Digest. After all, the company was born within their pages, as were their "reputable" authenticators that SCD hypes up.

People buy items because they trust the periodical itself. The idiot collector believes it can't be steered in the wrong direction if such a large advertiser is linked (is it incorrect to call it a partnership since one is so dependant on the other?) to a huge advertiser.

The part that gets me is the exclusive inventory that consists of items that almost never show up in Mastro or any other catalog...like Ed Delahanty, Old Hoss Radbourne, Josh Gibson, Jack Chesbro, Christy Mathewson, Joe Kelley (including balls) and Dan Brouthers.

DJ

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Henry, I'm not a currency expert, but, whether genuine or not, it was made after
Ruth and Gehrig died and, thus, they obviously couldn't have autographed it.

It does make one wonder what bonehead picked this bill to put the signatures of
Ruth and Gehrig on. But, as Voltaire said, "There are a lot of bonehads." (Actually,
he said "Common sense isn't common.")

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Posted By: DJ

I just sent a dollar bill expert the following link and will see what he has to say about the following, which was where this originally appeared.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum2/showthread.php?t=332

There are A LOT of "suspect" signed Babe Ruthand Ruth/Gehrig signed $1 and $2 dollar bills from their playing days. Collectors (and forgers) love items that can date back to that period like wire photos (even though most were leaked in the 1970's), Dollar Bills and First Day Covers (especially 1939 Baseball Centennial FDC's). It makes the collector feel more at ease since "it could have been signed".

DJ

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Posted By: mr. moses

edited to remove gibberish.....

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Posted By: Bob Lemke

The short answer is that a Series 1928G $2 note could not possibly have been made before June 21, 1949. Back then, the government changed the date of its paper money series only when there was a major change in design. The series-letter was changed when minor design changes were adopted, such as a new Treasurer and/or Secretary of the Treasury. The crooks generally do not know this and thus it is easy to spot many phony signed notes.

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Posted By: Joseph

I encourage anyone reading this thread--if they haven't already--to read Kevin Nelson's "Operation Bullpen." Obviously, the crackdown and prosecution of the Marino gang was the tip of the iceberg and while investigators recovered thousands and thousands of counterfeit items, many, many more remain scattered throughout the marketplace (and sadly, on people's shelves).

The Marino stuff is very good (for fakes) and continues to appear for sale (sometimes quite innocently) all the time. And then there are the other dozens (hundreds?) of fraudsters whose names we do not know yet.

As I've said before, you need to have a few screws loose to buy an autograph from anyone but a top shelf dealer or friend that you trust. And even then, you should be vigilant.

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Posted By: mr. moses

not just that someone would use a counterfeit 1928 2$ bill to place their fake autographs on, but that someone would manufacture one in the first place - and that I could find one from the same series with the same glaring error listed in a buy-it-now on eBay for 20.00.... Perhaps that's where they got it. Isn't it some sort of federal offense? When things like this are exposed even in a limited forum wouldn't a legitimate auction house or authenticator withdraw it or respond in some manner? Bob L. I have respected many of the thoughts you have expressed in your prior roles as an editor. If you care to share - do you find it disturbing that an outfit such as this can continue to be a major advertisor in SCD? Especially in a substantially failing financial position they appear to be in?