M101-4 and M101-5 Help

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Posted By: James Walker, Jr.

What is a good basis for "multipliers" for the various backs?

Thanks,
James Walker, Jr.

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Posted By: Todd

I just like to keep the M101 topics alive. James, the subject of relative scarcity for the m101-4s and m101-5s has been discussed before--try the search function.

As for multipliers, I believe they are of marginal value with these issues. For example, a Mall Theatre card is 100 times scarcer than a standard blank back or TSN back m101-4, yet I doubt a buyer would pay that premium. In fact, I believe that not long ago a Vg+ Mall Theatre card was up on Ebay and did not meet the opening bid of $299.00. So at least for the really tough ones like Mall and Holmes to Homes, scarcity does not translate well to multipliers. Still, for the sake of discussion, I believe those two would garner a 5-10x multiplier, and probably should be worth more.

The others probably fall in the 1.5 to 3x range, and you'd be lucky to get 3x unless its a HOFer or Black Sox player on a Succesful Farming card in excellent or better condition. Actually, I would change that, as any player or team collector might pay that multiplier if seriously into all variations. Finally, I would expect the multiplier to shrink as the condition decreases. I've seen a slew of pretty beat up Indy Brewing and Standard Biscuit cards on Ebay in the past few months that did not fetch anything eye-popping (same too for Famous and Barr, but they're fairly common anyway).

My 2 cents, multiplied by 1.5-3x.

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Posted By: leon

Yes we have been over this before. I love collecting backs so here we are again. As always it is supply and demand that equals value. As Todd noted it doesn't matter if there is only 2-3 Holmes to Homes cards in the world, if the demand is not high the value won't be either. I am sure you could pick that statement apart but for the most part it's true. With that being said I have seen some back varieties go fairly high ($100-$300 for a common) and still not be the value I would think they should be due to their rarity. Here is a list of known backs and multipliers (of common players/backs) that are only my idea...... I have only seen 2 of the Holmes to Homes and 2 of the Everybody's. I believe there are more of the Everybody's than there are the Holmes to Homes hence the higher multiplier.

Altoona Tribune 3x
Blank back 1x
Block & Kuhl 3x
Burgess Nash 1.5x
Everybodys 8x
Famous/Barr 1x
Gimbels-large print 2x
Gimbels-large block 4x
Gimbels-small print 4x
Globe Clothing 2x
Green Joyce 3x
Herpolsheimer 2x
Holmes to Homes 10x
Indianapolis Brew 2x
Mall Theatre 5x
Morehouse Baking 4x
Sporting News 1x
Standard Biscuit 1.5x
Successful Farming 5x
Wares 3x
Weil Baking 3x

I would love to hear about substantiated other backs too. I didn't count the Beycuis (sp?) Brewing as it is a lone, known sheet and they are blank backed. The mulitpliers are purely speculation on my part.
regards

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Posted By: spaceops03

Leon,

Very nice work on your list of multipliers. In fact I wish Bob Lemke would take note of the way you listed them and list them in his next catalog in a similar fashion.

In fact, I wish he would list all cards with variations in this manner so we don't have to go chasing through that monster book to determine what the various multipliers are. Not to say that that back types still shouldn't be listed individually - but having them in a consolidated place would be nice.

Newer hobbyists/less astute collectors that are collecting the various back types might not in fact realize all the types that actually exist without a single list.

Any way, back to the original note, nice job Leon.

-Don J.

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Posted By: Tim Newcomb

To me this is one of the most intriguing unanswered questions in our hobby.

Leon and I probably know as much as anyone about these cards, although we've taken very different approaches. I have been collecting these sets intensely for a few years, picking up any I could afford. I have about 300 cards, and examples of all backs except Holmes to Homes.

Leon has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to acquire the finest example of each back he could find. I believe he has at least one of them all, and two of most.

The back scale I've been using to evaluate my own collection is pasted below. It's interesting to me how close most of my estimates are to Leon's, although there are numerous differences.

But I feel that neither is really more than an informed guess. I'd love to do a population project like the T207 one, but solid information about these cards is very hard to come by, since most collectors just don't have many of them. I believe they are very scarce compared to all the major T card sets.

Any thoughts or comments from the board experts?

Altoona Tribune 3x
Blank back 1x
Block & Kuhl 3x
Burgess Nash 3x
Everybodys 4x
Famous/Barr 1x (M101-5)
Famous/Barr 1.5x (M101-4)
Gimbels 1.5x
Globe Clothing 1.5x
Green Joyce 4x
Herpolsheimer 3x
Holmes to Homes 5x
Indianapolis Brew 3x
Mall Theatre 4x
Morehouse Baking 3x
Sporting News 1x
Standard Biscuit 1.5x
Successful Farming 4x
Wares 3x
Weil Baking 2x

[Archive]

Posted By: Todd (nolemmings)

would look a lot like Leon's, although I'd probably bump Mall Theatre up to 6 and Everybody's down to 6. Tim is right about the m101-4 F&Bs being scarcer than their counterparts from m101-5, maybe even moreso than in his multiplier list. Also, I'll whine about it again-- I have not been shown a confirmed m101-5 with a TSN back. Assuming they exist, I would give them a multiplier of at least 3.