E120 Caramel question

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Posted By: leon

Hey folks,
Getting back to what the board was intended for I need some help from you caramel experts ( I am verrrry slowly getting there ) I recently won lot 69 (my favorite number of course) in the Collectible Classics auction. There were 2 cards in it that were E120's that had different ads on the back...the ads were for Creamnuts and Goodie Bread......but the question is that when I put these 2 cards next to my other regular backed E120's there is a significant toning difference. It seems like I have seen this "white" looking tone, like mine have, on some other ones too but most have a darker petina to them. The cards came from a very knowledgeable source (obviously) and they look old....but what's with the different aged look?....regards all

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Posted By: David

I have no knowledge of these particular cards, but, assuming they are all legitimate, the difference may be in the way they were stored. I collect lots of photos, and there can be large differences in toning just in the way they were stored. Ones that come from the photographer's files often have little or even no toning, and those that were displayed will often have heavy toning and other age problems. I don't know the thickness of the E120s, but if they are on thinner stock I would think that they would be more suspectable to toning and other age problems.

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Posted By: David

I just looked them up, and the E120s are probably photoengravings (releif), which should make them easy to authenticate from the front images.

If they used during printing, different stocks, this may account for the toning differences. Different paper or cardboard, even if having similar initial appearances, can age differently because of their chemical makeup differencees. Obviously, others will be able to tell you how often the toning varies if this is a common trait

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Posted By: HalleyGator

That set was printed with the National league cards being markedly DIFFERENT than the American League cards.

National are printed in green on bluish stock.

Americans are in brown ink on tan thin cardboard.

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Posted By: petecld

Is it possible the card you are asking about is a W573?

W573s are basically E120s printed on white stock in black ink and have blank backs.

Are the backs of your cards printed or was a hand stamp used?

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Posted By: leonl

Hey guys,
Thanks for the responses....and where else could I go to ask these questions if not for the board? Sure, a few friends, but this is a great venue/forum with a larger audience than any ONE of us could have. I really like talking about vintage cards but sometimes I think there is just too much crap, it sucks.......and I am sure most will agree......anywho, back off my soap box...sorry about that. If any of you have the Collectible Classics brochure you will see one of these 2 cards pictured, lot 69. I'll bring them into work tomorrow and see if I can post pics....They look like they have the same toning and same colors, as each other, and one is American League and one is National League. I would say Pete is correct except (not that you were stating anything for absolutely sure) for the fact that they say "120 different subjects" in a factory type print, not a stamp. I have several stamped cards and these aren't like that. The lot description (and we know John is very knowledgeable and I believe Mr. Lipsett helped him also) says that they use the same photo's as 1922 American Caramels E120 series of 240. soooooo back to the original question....and I think I know the answer now....my theory, and the auctioneers theory, since they are very "white" looking, and my other E120's are not, is that these are just a regional issue much as my beloved M101-4/5's, and are in fact E120's, and the toning might just be from how they were stored OR more importantly distributed?..ie in Caramel or on a shelf etc... ......best regards all....

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Posted By: leonl

but the 2002 SCD does state that W573's were printed with advertising of various firms on them and are black and white photo's.....so basically I am not positive what the he** these are, but my thinking might have changed back to the W573's regards again...

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Posted By: David

Leon, you have to wait at least one Scooby Doo between posts

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Posted By: Kevin Cummings

I just picked up a new E120 myself and when I was tucking it away with the rest of the commons, I noticed something I never did before.

The National League cards are consistently smaller than their American League counterparts. My 5 commons range in length from 3 7/32" to 3 1/4." The 3 American Leaguers, on the other hand, are 3 1/4" and 3 9/32" long.

Anyone got a rational explanation for that phenomenon? Also, is the one that measures 3 7/32" too short to be "legal?"