Genuine question, what is with the National staying in Chicago

[JustinD]

I may have missed this thread, but why is Rosemont hosting for all of the upcoming schedule?

It’s easily the worst location for me and my complete inability to handle oppressive heat. My medical conditions cause me to reach dangerous levels when my heat regulation is challenged. Have they given up on changing locations? This may be the end of trying to go to the National unless Chicago works on the convention center…but I am not holding my breath for anything but weak lip service. Others may say different but I think Stevens is a complete sh*thole.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Others may say different but I think Stevens is a complete sh*thole.

I'm with you. I've always felt this way. It's a complete dump that needs to be imploded. I would be so happy to watch its destruction.

When was it built, anyway? It doesn't seem that old, yet was worn down even 20 years ago.

[Jewish-collector]

Agreed. If they insist on keeping the National in Chicago, they need to move it to the McCormick Center.

https://www.mccormickplace.com/

[Leon]

The Donald Stephens Convention Center isn't that great but it's a great location, imo. Easy to get to, easy to get to stuff around it.....all in all, I like it and wish it would stay there. Everyone has their own view.

[timn1]

They have a sweet deal with the Stephens Center, I imagine - McCormick would be in another league of costs. It's not that convenient for the suburban crowd that goes to the National either.

But guys, jeez! - I get the heat, but that's the time of year. It's hot everywhere. Stephens is far superior to the other recent venues IMHO, and it has a lot of hotel space right there, which the others don't have. The Cleveland hotel situation last year was really deplorable - we were in an inconvenient shithole in which nothing worked, AND it was as expensive as the Rosemont places.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Leon

The Donald Stephens Convention Center isn't that great but it's a great location, imo. Easy to get to, easy to get to stuff around it.....all in all, I like it and wish it would stay there. Everyone has their own view.

Agreed. The place is a dump but it’s easy to get to and is connected to hotels. And there are some restaurants within walking distance. If it can’t be in Baltimore, Chicago is the best place.

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

Agreed. If they insist on keeping the National in Chicago, they need to move it to the McCormick Center.

https://www.mccormickplace.com/

Probably too expensive to rent.

[skelly]

On a random note, are we at the point where there could be a “modern” national ( say mid 90’s cards and newer ) and then a vintage national. I realize some people collect both.

[Leon]

To answer the question specifically, if I recall, when Mike Burkus (RIP) spoke at one of the Net54baseball Dinners, he said it was cost, ingress/egress, and being able to do a contract several years out, were the main reasons for where the National was held. For those that don't know, Mike managed, and helped found, the National since day one until he passed in late 2015.

[Snapolit1]

Seems like a short sighted move. Like anything else, you want to grow the business model. Expose it to more people. Would make more sense to have in different locales. Give people opportunity to make it a vacation, etc. With present location you are just churning the same hard core base of people year after year.

Chicago a nice town. Business takes me there a few times a year. Nothing interesting about it as a convention locale.

[toppcat]

Considering how close it is to the airport, the number of hotels and restaurants in walking distance (plus the Chicago Dogs ballpark, shopping, casinos), it's a fairly good location. Yeah the AC sucks and the food onsite is a joke (although it's quite easy to have something delivered) but the way the whole thing is essentially in one place is pretty sweet I think. And if you want to go Downtown, there is public transit close by.

[Rich Klein]

Simplest Reasons

1) As noted: Easy access to the show from the airport for out-of-town guests and dealers

2) The Stephens people know how to run shows. Air Conditioning should be better going forward. Cost appears from these comments to be reasonable for the promoters as well.

**** 3) The DEALERS who vote on where to put the show want it there. Until some location shows it can be better for them than Chicago, then folks we ain't moving. ******

4) As noted; Plenty of food and hotel options accessible. Baltimore, St. Louis (1995) and Anaheim are also great locations for hotels/walking to the show/accessibility to dining places. Atlanta is improving on those levels but unless you like heat more oppressive than Chicago can be, then that's not for you.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Load in and out sucks at Stephens, and I can't believe that doesn't bother more dealers. Other than that (and the AC situation last time which was insane) I like the location.

[OhioLawyerF5]

I feel like the AC situation was a freak set of circumstances. The Vrbo we rented had the AC go out while we were there that week. The repair guy that came said it wasn't broken, it just couldn't keep up with the unusual heat they were faced with and froze up. Sounded like it was happening all over the city that week.

[parkplace33]

Pure laziness.

I doubt the National goes to another location in the next 10 years.

[Johnny630]

I vote to change the name to the national sports collectors convention Chicago Rosemont. It’s actually historic.

[Brent G.]

I’ve been to shows there in March and November, and both are HOT. I can’t imagine July.

[BobbyStrawberry]

I'd be more likely to go if it was held in a more vacation-y locale, like Miami or San Diego.

[jayshum]

There are always complaints on here about the location of the National, but I don't think overall attendance has really been an issue in the last few years. Maybe some net54 members aren't going, but plenty of other people are.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

I feel like the AC situation was a freak set of circumstances. The Vrbo we rented had the AC go out while we were there that week. The repair guy that came said it wasn't broken, it just couldn't keep up with the unusual heat they were faced with and froze up. Sounded like it was happening all over the city that week.

I think this may be the case. I don't ever recall that venue being as hot as it was last year.

[notfast]

It’s July/August…it’s going to be hot just about everywhere.

[UKCardGuy]

I haven't been to many Nationals, but I was at Chicago in 2023 and I loved it. I was there for Fri to Sun in 2023 and the temperature wasn't too bad. I was told it was worse on Wed and Thurs when loading doors were open and let all the cool air out.

I'm going again this year and really looking forward to it.

Rosemont has hotels within walking distance of the convention center, easy access to the airport and space for lots and lots of dealers.Chicago also has good travel links for most of the country.

I can definitely see the attraction of having it in other cities too, The National organisers have been very clear about the conditions for shortlisting cities. I suppose the big question is whether some of those criteria could be modied.

[JollyElm]

These 'Collectorisms' were based on people's reactions to one of the recent Nationals:


1027. The Stench of a Thousand Buffalo (loosely translated Ojibwe)
The hot, putrid and stifling air quality inside of a poorly ventilated show venue.

See also: ”Air Conditioning, Air Conditioning, Air Conditioning” - an adage expressing the three most important factors in determining where to hold a large card collectors convention.

See also: Breaksweatus Operandi (BO) (Lat.) - the unchanging, odiferous mode of slobs who never think of taking their fellow showgoers into account as they once again leave their deodorant sticks back home and unused.

See also: Smellpox - the rancid haze that envelops and infects you as you stand tightly crammed in around the dealer tables.

See also: Tactfoulness - the purposeful use of your malodorous ‘fragrance’ to make people scatter and free up space around you, so you have more room at the tables to comfortably operate in.

See also: Flop Sweat Equity - although you regret your stink is affecting people, you know the gamey odors emanating from your body were earned honestly through your hard work in the card show trenches.

[JustinD]

Stephens knows their a/c is non functional and outdated. After two years of debate, the city council finally passed a vote to replace the roof top units for new last year. It was not a fluke, it is poor maintenance and management. It takes quality RTUs to move air when the venue is that packed.

The issue is, with the usual speed of local government this just might be completed in another 2-3 years. Until then I am out for my safety.

I don’t feel like I need to explain but for the 2 cents folks saying heat is everywhere there’s a difference when you have gone multiple rounds of chemo, lost all heat regulation with the meds killing my thyroid, and having literally no large intestines left to absorb water. The multiple ER trips for dehydration or heat stroke have told me there’s firm limits I am still learning. I’m not just being a pouter for giggles on this one.

[OhioLawyerF5]

I was at the show in 2023 Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. Thursday was pretty warm, but not unbearable (and I'm a person who gets hot and sweats relatively quickly). I would estimate it got up to high 70s to low 80s on Thursday. Friday and Saturday were basically normal room temperature in the low 70s. Obviously, if you have particular health conditions, your mileage is different. But for the vast majority of people, the AC problem was overblown.

[mrreality68]

Hopefully it is better than last time.
But I am looking forward to it in Chicago and love the proximity to the airport, the hotels and best of all looking forward to seeing some old friends and new friends and actually seeing some of you in person

[Kzoo]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

When was it built, anyway? It doesn't seem that old, yet was worn down even 20 years ago.

I believe I remember reading it was built in or around 1975.

[whitehse]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

Agreed. If they insist on keeping the National in Chicago, they need to move it to the McCormick Center.

https://www.mccormickplace.com/

As a lifetime Chicago area resident, McCormick place is a great venue but not one that is considered convenient to get to. I believe the second time the National was in Chicago it was held at McCormick place and I really was an awesome location in terms of show space but I didn't enjoy the mile walk just to get in the door. My family would always attend the Chicago Auto Show held at the same location and always felt it just wasnt a place we suburban residents really wanted to go to. Mayor Stephens in Rosemont recognized this which is why he built his empire...I mean the convention center where it was built.

[Rich Klein]

Actually McCormick was the 3rd Chicago show in 1993

1983 and 1989 were held in hotel ballrooms

Rich

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

**** 3) The DEALERS who vote on where to put the show want it there. Until some location shows it can be better for them than Chicago, then folks we ain't moving. ******

If I'm not mistaken, they're asking dealers who already are at the National. The ones who'd want it to move are already not there and not voting.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by Tabe

If I'm not mistaken, they're asking dealers who already are at the National. The ones who'd want it to move are already not there and not voting.

Yes they are, but if those dealers want to stay in Chicago, that's where we are staying. Hate to tell you this, but that is a simple equation. You got to get the votes from people who are paying for the tables

Rich

[notfast]

Baltimore will never be an option. Not even close to enough space required.

Atlanta should be a reasonable option but dealers love Chicago and Atlantic City. I personally also love Chicago for reasons everyone has listed above.

[MVSNYC]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

I'd be more likely to go if it was held in a more vacation-y locale, like Miami or San Diego.

This.

Wish they'd get more of a variety of locations in the rotation. A beach destination would be great, or add in Vegas or NYC (Javitz Center?). ATL, Dallas, etc. I really enjoyed the 2016 AC Nat'l (I know a lot of people hate AC), and Baltimore 2012 was great. I think the only Chicago one I attended was 2008. Was fun, other than loosing my shirt on a Boston Garter I consigned to Mastro's Live Auction.

[balltrash]

I believe some of the more pressing challenges are:

- finding a large enough venue to host the show given how big it has become.
- being able to book said venue far enough in advance (assuming it is even available during the period of time needed.
- and a HUGE issue which many of the present stock of dealers may not even keep in mind given how long it has been since it was a factor - Rosemont is non-union venue. You would not believe how much cost it adds to have the show in a place where unions are part of the picture...it would eliminate a wide swath of exhibitors immediately or after they feel the pain of paying those bills once they certainly are not going to do it again (in many cases).

[Snapolit1]

Sure the non-union angle / cost consideration is huge. Apparently union costs have severely affected Javits in NYC.

Originally Posted by balltrash

I believe some of the more pressing challenges are:

- finding a large enough venue to host the show given how big it has become.
- being able to book said venue far enough in advance (assuming it is even available during the period of time needed.
- and a HUGE issue which many of the present stock of dealers may not even keep in mind given how long it has been since it was a factor - Rosemont is non-union venue. You would not believe how much cost it adds to have the show in a place where unions are part of the picture...it would eliminate a wide swath of exhibitors immediately or after they feel the pain of paying those bills once they certainly are not going to do it again (in many cases).

[Rich Klein]

Dallas does not yet the infrastructure to support a NSCC. Maybe someday but it's a few years in the future and for the people who complain about heat in Chicago, well DFW blows away Chicago on that front

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by notfast

Baltimore will never be an option. Not even close to enough space required.

Atlanta should be a reasonable option but dealers love Chicago and Atlantic City. I personally also love Chicago for reasons everyone has listed above.

Those two years that the National was in Baltimore (2010 and 2012) were fantastic.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by notfast

Baltimore will never be an option. Not even close to enough space required.

Atlanta should be a reasonable option but dealers love Chicago and Atlantic City. I personally also love Chicago for reasons everyone has listed above.

I don't know if dealers truly love AC. I thought when they voted for the next few locations, there was an offer for AC to be free (or almost free) for dealers, and it still wasn't picked. Someone else may be able to provide better details about what the offer was, but from what I remember reading, it sounded like they were really trying to push AC and it didn't happen.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Those two years that the National was in Baltimore (2010 and 2012) were fantastic.

Not for me. Some here have complained about the heat inside the Chicago venue. What about the heat that was outside the venue in Baltimore?! I've never felt anything that hellish on this continent before or since. While the venue was fine, we all still had to be outside at several points during our visit.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Yes they are, but if those dealers want to stay in Chicago, that's where we are staying. Hate to tell you this, but that is a simple equation. You got to get the votes from people who are paying for the tables

Rich

Trust me, dealers would set up on Mars if they could make a buck. Again, it goes back to convenience.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Not for me. Some here have complained about the heat inside the Chicago venue. What about the heat that was outside the venue in Baltimore?! I've never felt anything that hellish on this continent before or since. While the venue was fine, we all still had to be outside at several points during our visit.

I'm not sure you can blame Baltimore for it being hot in late July or early August. There are plenty of suggested locations (Dallas, Las Vegas, Miami to name a few) that are likely to be far worse as far as heat outside than Baltimore.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Having travelled all over the continent in every type of weather, I can attest that there's something especially menacing about the summers in that particular area.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Having travelled all over the continent in every type of weather, I can attest that there's something especially menacing about the summers in that particular area.

Nobody ever suggests Boston . . . maybe too expensive or not big enough. Cool city.

[Brent G.]

I'll always advocate for Indianapolis. Foot travel from hotels to the convention center is very easy; the downtown is full of restaurants, bars, breweries, etc.; the Triple-A Indianapolis Indians are right next door (and now Caitlyn Clark/Indiana Fever that time of year). There's a reason why the NFL combine, Final Fours, and a ton of other events (including a Super Bowl) are held there.

[LEHR]

Originally Posted by Brent G.

I'll always advocate for Indianapolis. Foot travel from hotels to the convention center is very easy; the downtown is full of restaurants, bars, breweries, etc.; the Triple-A Indianapolis Indians are right next door. There's a reason why the NFL combine, Final Fours, and a ton of other events are held there.

I'd love to see that!
I spent my first 32 years on this floating space rock about 2.5 hours south of Indy and still have tons of family in Southern Indiana and Northern Kentucky. I could knock out a National and family visit in one trip.

[Lucas00]

I'd expect literally any east coast city to break the attendance record in 2025. I'm in south central PA, which on a map is pretty close to chicago. But in reality it's a 10 hour drive. I'm somebody who can walk a show easily in 3 hours. It doesn't take me 3 days. So when the drive is 20 hrs total and I'm walking for 3 it just really isn't a great time.

Chicago is a national for people who fly and spend money on things that aren't cards, plain and simple. So that eliminates 9/10 collectors.

Based on distance and population alone (which should be the factors used) it should be held in the northeast every year,
In one of the following states
New York, Virginia, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, Connecticut, DC, Maryland. Statistically, these places will bring the most people every year. Because they are drivable from each other.

Personally I think DC with so much to do that isn't just the show should be the permanent spot. But there are other contenders too, I know the amount of collectors in Virginia who would go to a national if it was held in their state could bring a national crowd just from their state.

[Jewish-collector]

Each year the National will break the attendance record from the previous year, so I don't know how the hell the Stephens Convention Center will be able to handle the huge crowds.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

I'd be all for Indianapolis or Cincinnati, but I feel like the reasons why these (and everywhere else) aren't happening have been discussed to death.

[perezfan]

It should be held in a somewhat central location who's airport is a "hub" with lots of direct flights from every part of the country. The Convention Center should be an easy commute/shuttle ride from the airport. There should be a great number of hotels that are within walking distance to the convention center.

That's why Rosemont is a popular choice.

I would like to see the "National" delve west of the Mississippi once every 3-4 years. Las Vegas would be a great choice. Anaheim and San Diego are not as centrally located, but would be awesome locations as well. If San Diego can host Comic-Con, they can handle the National.

I believe the most heavily attended National of all-time was in Anaheim. There are endless hotels and restaurants within walking distance, and Disneyland, Universal, Angel Stadium, and the Beach are all right there (for non-collecting family members). So if they ever decide to mix it up, they should go west every now and then. Otherwise I'm fine with Rosemont.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

Each year the National will break the attendance record from the previous year, so I don't know how the hell the Stephens Convention Center will be able to handle the huge crowds.

I wouldn't assume that's a given. The modern market for shiny stuff, in particularly for football and basketball, is in the tank. Lots of those young dudes with the shiny little silver card cases have lost their ass big time in the last 2 years. The breaking business has taken a tremendous hit. The fractional goobers have all left town. The froth is off the market as we say on Wall Street.
Seems to me like a lot of the juice has been squeezed out of the lemon at this point.

I couldn't quantify it, but I suspect the amount of bidding on even the best most respected pre-war AHs is way down.