1966 Topps 6th Series/Semi-Hi's

[deweyinthehall]

Putting together a 1966 set and am wondering as to whether there are any SPs in its penultimate series - do we have any real or faux slits out there I haven't been able to find?

I asked a similar question about the 1967 semis last year and it started quite a thread...

[Kevvyg1026]

This is a 77 card series, so there will be short prints. I am not aware of any slits, faux or otherwise. Cliff and I have been working on this series for quite a while, but there are very few miscut to work with.

[Cliff Bowman]

Unless a 1966 Topps 6th Series Slit shows up it will be nearly impossible to ever reconstruct that sheet, whoever Topps hired to cut sheets for that Series did a bang up job compared to all others in that era. I recently did an eBay search of quantities of each card in the 1966 6th Series and I came up with these 27 as definite 4x cards, Stanky, Azcue, Buchek, Lolich, Gibbon, McCool, Face, Rollins, Radatz, Bragan, Barber, Hannan, T John, Ferrara, Simmons, Bennett, Klippstein, McAuliffe, Aaron, O'Donoghue, L Green, S Hamilton, Belinsky, Wilhelm, Stigman, Wynn, Linz, and these 5 as probable 4x cards, Kline, B Rodgers, T Gonzalez, Stuart, B Lee. That's 32 out of 33 4x cards, pretty much all of the remaining 45 cards I didn't list are 3x (SP's).

[Elberson]

I’m only working on 1 set (lol) but haven’t noticed anything yet…..only 15 to go!!!

[deweyinthehall]

Decided to take a serious look into the 1966 6th series today.

Did pop counts of the cards across eBay, COMC, PSA and Deans, and scoured all of those for miscuts.

I did come upon a couple not previously mentioned here

I think the Aaron shows it was in the #1 slot. There's also a Blefary over Johnny Klippstein, Radatz over Rollins, Carreon over Hamilton and Hamilton over one of the checklists - which puts them in either the #1 or #11 slot.

The lack of miscuts is amazing - absolutely nothing side-to-side, save the Aaron.

With 77 cards, do we think there is a 3x - 4x pattern?

From the numbers I ran, I feel safe saying the 3xs include:
Moeller
Brandon/Foy
Blefary
Buford
McDowell
Skinner
Boccabella/Dowling
Richardson
A's Team
Walker/Fryman
Bunker
Edwards
Wood

Similarly, I think these are in the 4xs:
Stanky
Azcue
Buchek
Gibbon
McCool
Face
Radatz
Bragan
Hannan
Bennett
Klippstein
McAuliffe
O'Donoghue
Green
Belinsky
Wilhelm
Stigman
Wynn
Linz


Any and all information or speculation on the arrangement of cards on the 6th series slits, and certainly any miscuts, would be appreciated!

[Cliff Bowman]

Nice finds! I wish we could do the 1966 Topps 6th Series sheet but there are absolutely no horizontal miscuts which makes it just about impossible. Kevin says the 1965 Topps 6th Series is just as bad if not worse.

[Cliff Bowman]

Here's an interesting one. O'Donoghue is definitely a 4x, I have a miscut of him under either a Red or a Twin, and then I have a miscut of a O'Donoghue under a Met or a Athletic. That means the row with O'Donoghue has different rows above it over the two Slits.

[Cliff Bowman]

These are the only two horizontal combos I have, Dick McAuliffe is to the right of Johnny Klippstein and probably Bill McCool is to the right of Dick Ellsworth.

[Kevvyg1026]

From that MC, how would ypou distinguish between McCool or Oliva? The grass color?

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Kevvyg1026

From that MC, how would ypou distinguish between McCool or Oliva? The grass color?

I originally put McCool but then I realized McCool is a 4x and Ellsworth is more than likely a 3x so I changed it to Oliva. We may never know exactly who it is.

[Cliff Bowman]

There is still hope ! This is the first severely horizontal miscut 1966 6th Series card I have run across so hopefully more show up. Phil Linz is to the right of Lenny Green on a 4x row.

[Kevvyg1026]

Linz should be below a senator or giant

1966_522_WF-SF.jpg

[deweyinthehall]

After doing a bit more work and another review of available images on eBay I've been able to place Aaron above Buford on one of the slits by working the back and front of this Aaron and all possible White Sox and Cubs (this makes Aaron, Buford, Moeller and Latman in the column 1 position).

Also, I was able to ID the card above the O'Donoghue previously posted as Manny Jimenez after comparing the reverses of all possible Mets and A's.

Finally, I think the Wynn here is enough of a miscut to say that on at least one of the slits he was on the top row - agree?

[deweyinthehall]

Also, Grady Hatton sits over the A's or Phillies team card on one or both slits:

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

Also, Grady Hatton sits over the A's or Phillies team card on one or both slits:

It's not the Phillies Team card, it has a regular player card above it. Jiminez is definitely to the left of the Phillies Team card.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

Also, I was able to ID the card above the O'Donoghue previously posted as Manny Jimenez after comparing the reverses of all possible Mets and A's.

Great work! Now if we can figure out who the Brave or Angel is above Jimenez...

[Kevvyg1026]

I think Nuxhall is in Col 1

1966_483_edge.jpg

[Kevvyg1026]

So then I run into issues because, if Nuxhall is a left edge card, then Fox must also be.

1966_483_472_V_fox - nuxhall 1.jpg

[Kevvyg1026]

The issue I have is that I also thought Bob Skinner, 471, was a left edge card. and was above Aaron via these two miscuts, which doesn't allow that card to be Buford.

I had Nuxhall, Fox, Aaron, Moeller, Skinner as lead cards.

I also thought there was a miscut with Buford below Azcue, so if Buford is a left edge card, then Azcue would be as well, (plus Latman), so I have too many left edge cards.

1966_471_blueMark.jpg

1966_471_500.jpg

[deweyinthehall]

Upon further review - I retract my Aaron over Buford declaration, which removes both Buford and Latman from column 1.

What happened, and it's clear if you look at the images I posted above, I was looking at the front of an Aaron card with a Cub or White Sox below, and at the back of an Aaron with a slim piece of a card ABOVE, not below. Complete brain spasm on my part.

So, safely in column 1 now are Aaron, Skinner, Moeller, Nuxhall and Fox.

[deweyinthehall]

Found this Cannizzaro on COMC.

The only cards which could conceivably be below him, IMO, are Linz, Hargan, O'Donoghue and Belinsky.

From the fronts, it seems highly likely to be Belinsky given the coloration of the sky.

From the reverse, O'Donoghue seems to be close as well, but the color seems too off.

The reason I am not comfortable going with Belinsky is that the horizontal stat category lines seem too close to the edge to be completely missing from the back of the miscut Cannizzaro.

In the image with 4 cards layered together, from bottom to top it's Linz, Hargan, O'Donoghue and Belinsky.

Thoughts?

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

Found this Cannizzaro on COMC.

The only cards which could conceivably be below him, IMO, are Linz, Hargan, O'Donoghue and Belinsky.

From the fronts, it seems highly likely to be Belinsky given the coloration of the sky.

From the reverse, O'Donoghue seems to be close as well, but the color seems too off.

The reason I am not comfortable going with Belinsky is that the horizontal stat category lines seem too close to the edge to be completely missing from the back of the miscut Cannizzaro.

In the image with 4 cards layered together, from bottom to top it's Linz, Hargan, O'Donoghue and Belinsky.

Thoughts?

It can't be O'Donoghue because of the miscuts of him with either a Twin/Red above him or a Met/Athletic above him (which you determined to be Jimenez). I was able to determine it isn't Indians George Banks or Steve Hargan, so that leaves Belinsky and Linz. I have a miscut of Belinsky with a Brave/Angel above him and a miscut of Linz with a Giant/Senator above him so I am comfortable with saying Belinsky is under Cannizzaro but there is a remote possibility that Linz has a different card above him like O'Donoghue does.

[Kevvyg1026]

Can't be O'Donoghue. Card 501 has a Met/A above him at one place and has a Twin/Red at another place

Linz has a Was/SF above him

The other two, I don't know what card is above. But Belinsky has Wyatt below him

[deweyinthehall]

I'm going to put Belinsky below Cannizzaro - the difference in the color of the sky is, I think, too great to be Linz. I was not aware that Belinsky has a Wyatt beneath him - I'll mark that down as well.

[JollyElm]

This (obviously) isn't scientific or anything (can't get the images to perfectly fit together, mainly due to camera angles), but I did a quick layover of the two cards, and it is quite possible that Bo does fit. The problematic horizontal lines basically end right where the sliver of miscut ends, so it's not definitive either way...


belinskybackcomp.jpg

[Cliff Bowman]

I will show everything I have of the 1966 6th Series and say who I believe is above, under, or beside that particular card. It will probably take a few posts. Aaron above Moeller, Aaron as left edge (header card), Aaron at the top of a Slit, Aaron at the bottom of a Slit, Azcue above unknown card, B Rodgers with a Dodger/Yankee above him, Bailey with a Pirate/Red Sox above him, Barber with an ?Astro/Oriole? under him, Barber with a Phillie/Indian above him, Belinsky with Cannizzaro above him. Belinsky with Wyatt under him, Bennett with unknown card to his left, Blefary with Klippstein under him, Braves Rookie Stars with Coleman under it, Bressoud with mystery card above it or at the top of a Slit, Buford above Latman, Bunker above Bob Lee, Cannizzaro above Belinsky.

[Cliff Bowman]

Azcue under ?Rookie Stars card?, Carreon above Dodger/Yankee, Checklist above Wood, Coleman above unknown card, Covington under a Phillie/Indian, Covington above unknown card, Edwards above Carreon, Ellsworth with either McCool or Oliva to his right, Fox under Nuxhall, Friend under a Cub/White Sox, Giants Rookie Stars above a Checklist, Gibbon above Braves Rookie Stars, Gonzalez above Nuxhall, L Green under a Phillie/Indian, S Hamilton above a Checklist, Hannan above Schofield, Hargan under a Cub/White Sox.

[Cliff Bowman]

Hatton above A's Team card, Jimenez to the left of Phillies Team card, Jimenez under Brave/Angel, John under Twin/Red, K Johnson under a Pirate/Red Sox, Klippstein with McAuliffe to his right, Klippstein with unknown card under him, L Green with Linz to his right, Linz under a Giant/Senator, Lolich at the top of a Slit, McAuliffe above a Twin/Red, McDaniel under a Red Sox/Pirate, Nuxhall as a left edge card (header), O'Donoghue under a Twin/Red, O'Donoghue under Jimenez, Oliva under F Howard, Oliva above Simmons, Phillies Team card under regular player card.

[Cliff Bowman]

Phillies Team card under Indian/Phillie, Podres under ?Twin/Red?, Radatz above Rollins, Richardson above Rodgers, Richardson under Dodger/Yankee, Schofield above a Rookie Stars card, Simmons under Oliva, Simmons above Ellsworth, Skinner above Aaron, Stigman has a Pirate/Red Sox to his right, Wood above Giants Rookie Stars, Wynn above a Yankee/Dodger, Yankees Rookie Stars above Bressoud, Yankees Rookie Stars under a Red/Twin, Wynn at the top of a Slit.

[Kevvyg1026]

A few more

MC_7_469_bottom.jpg

MC_7_469_top.jpg

1966_490_462.jpg

66 6 wynn.jpg

1966_471_500.jpg

1966_469 _516.jpg

1966_475_bottom.jpg

1966_485_Pitt-Bos.jpg

[deweyinthehall]

Thanks for these!

I have Carreon being over Hamilton because of the placement of the orange field on the reverse.

Process of elimination says it has to be Carreon under Edwards but Carreon's card is pure white to the left of the Orioles banner - so while it has to fit there, there's still an odd anomaly.

How did you conclude Howard was above Oliva? Is there a back image that's just not posted?

Finally - for the Hatton, Jimenez and team cards - Hatton could be over either the Phillies or the A's, no? There's a Phillie back showing a regular player card, but there can be 2 or more different overs and unders for each card.

Why is it the Phillies Team to the left of Jimenez and not the A's?

[Kevvyg1026]

The Howard banner has a small anomaly

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

Thanks for these!

I have Carreon being over Hamilton because of the placement of the orange field on the reverse.

Process of elimination says it has to be Carreon under Edwards but Carreon's card is pure white to the left of the Orioles banner - so while it has to fit there, there's still an odd anomaly.

How did you conclude Howard was above Oliva? Is there a back image that's just not posted?

Finally - for the Hatton, Jimenez and team cards - Hatton could be over either the Phillies or the A's, no? There's a Phillie back showing a regular player card, but there can be 2 or more different overs and unders for each card.

Why is it the Phillies Team to the left of Jimenez and not the A's?

The card above Oliva on the miscut has a bump in the green, I checked every Giant and Senator and Frank Howard matched perfectly. If the team card to the right of Jimenez was the Athletics the color would be purple where I circled it, it is the gray of the Phillies color. I don't remember how I got Carreon under Edwards, I will have to double check.

[Cliff Bowman]

I did a 1966 6th Series run through Dean's Cards and COMC, nothing on Dean's and only one on COMC but it's a doozy, Vic Roznovsky above Ron Kline.

[Kevvyg1026]

For those who wonder about such things, here is a summary of the Border/Banner colors, with lettering colors for the 1966 6th series.

1966_6th_color.jpg

[Kevvyg1026]

I suspect both checklists from this series are right edge cards. Here are some miscuts for both cards.

1966_6_444_BC.jpg

1966_517_edge.jpg

1966_444_TC.jpg

[Kevvyg1026]

This miscut suggests that Cubs RS (482) is a left edge, which, if true, would make 478, Gonzalez, another LE card.

1966_482_wavy_LE.jpg

And, just in case this hasn't been posted, here is Aaron over Moeller.

1966_500_449_BC.jpg

[Kevvyg1026]

If you look at these two miscuts together, it suggests that Hamilton is above Check 6 on the right edge.

In addition, there is another MC showing 513 above 503, so 513 is most likely a RE card

1966_444_TC.jpg

1966_503_check.jpg

[deweyinthehall]

That is Hamilton over the 6th Series checklist - his is the only Yankee/Dodger where the loop holding the cartoon extends below the orange block like that.

[bb66]

Some great detective work guys. Amazing !!!

[deweyinthehall]

Originally Posted by Kevvyg1026

This miscut suggests that Cubs RS (482) is a left edge, which, if true, would make 478, Gonzalez, another LE card.

Attachment 614150

And, just in case this hasn't been posted, here is Aaron over Moeller.

Attachment 614151

I wasn't tracking a miscut showing Gonzalez in the same column as the Cubs Rookies - is he over or under?

I'm keeping a record of all the over/unders and have well over 30 - I want to sit down and see if it's possible to combine and determine if we have any 7 cards in a single column - won't know which column, but we'd have at least one to build upon.

[deweyinthehall]

Looking back at all the over/unders, in addition to having 6 known 1st column cards, we have 6 in another unknown column:

Hamilton
6th Checklist
Wood
Giants Rookies
Carreon
Edwards

Because of the checklist, I'd say it's extremely likely this is the 11th column.

There's another grouping of 5 and one of 4 and then they're all over the place.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

Looking back at all the over/unders, in addition to having 6 known 1st column cards, we have 6 in another unknown column:

Hamilton
6th Checklist
Wood
Giants Rookies
Carreon
Edwards

Because of the checklist, I'd say it's extremely likely this is the 11th column.

There's another grouping of 5 and one of 4 and then they're all over the place.

The Checklist is guaranteed to be on the right edge (11th column) on the 1966 6th Series Slits.

[Kevvyg1026]

checklist 7 should also be in Column 11

Here is the Gonzalez MC

1966_478_482_TC_1.jpg

[deweyinthehall]

With this, I think we have all 7 LE and RE cards.

LE:
Aaron
Nuxhall
Fox
Moeller
Skinner
Gonzalez
Cubs Rookies

RE:
6th Checklist
7th Checklist
Hamilton
Wood
Giants Rookies
Carreon
Edwards

Please check my 'math', but I think this is accurate.
Granted we still have no idea which ones are on which rows, but still....

[Cliff Bowman]

If those are correct then three of each column would be 4x and four of each column would be 3x, Aaron is definitely 4x and the two Checklists are 3x, Gonzalez and Hamilton are probable 4x. That would mean one more left edge (header) card and two more right edge cards would be 4x. ETA: After looking at quantities the other 4x card on the left edge is probably either Nuxhall or Cubs Rookie Stars and the other two right edge 4x card are probably Jake Wood and possibly Giants Rookie Stars.

[Kevvyg1026]

I'm not completely sure how we came up with Wood or Edwards being RE cards. I had the Carreon/Edwards listed a vertical pair, but I can't find the MC where that was firmly established and I have nothing on Wood.

My counts support Aaron & Gonzalez as being 4x, and Nuxhall as being indeterminate, but the other 4 (Cubs, Moeller, Skinner, Fox) as being 3x

[Kevvyg1026]

I recall seeing a miscut of check 7 (series 6 printing) that has, what looked like a either a team card or Rookie card above it, but the coloring was off (almost looked blue), suggesting a color shift. I don't have that MC though. When I saw that miscut, someone suggested that the card might be a color shifted A's team?? Boy, I wish I had a scan of that MC now.

Lastly (for now), some of these checklists definitely have a red color shift (noticeable because of coloring in the player jersey), which might explain the strange color of the banner above the checklist.

[Cliff Bowman]

Is it certain that Steve Hamilton is under Carreon, couldn’t it be another Dodger/Yankee with blue sky?

[Kevvyg1026]

I only have this for Carreon, so it could be Hamilton, Ferrara, Friend, Podres.

Can't be Richardson or Moeller or yanks RS

1966_513__BC_red.jpg