Bob Caruthers And The HOF

[Tomi]

He played a total of 9 years and his numbers rival the best pitchers of his era yet he was never inducted into the HOF because he didn't meet the 10 year minimum requirement to be inducted. I read that he will be eligible in 2025 on the Veteran's ballot and was wondering how this works. Did the rules for induction change?

[bbcard1]

Judging by several of the recent selections, the rules for both inclusion and exclusion have changed.

[mrreality68]

From my understanding it is still 10 years and from everything I am reading it still says 10 years for any player from any generation regardless of which committee they might be voted thru

But there is one site that he is next eligible in 2025
http://hallofstats.com/player/carutb...ee%20in%202025.


So I do not know

[Kidnapped18]

Simple answer...Caruthers had a 10 year career 1884-1893
1884 1st year
1885 2nd year
1886 3rd year
1887 4th year
1888 5th year
1889 6th year
1890 7th year
1891 8th year
1892 9th year
1893 10th year

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Kidnapped18

Simple answer...Caruthers had a 10 year career 1884-1893
1884 1st year
1885 2nd year
1886 3rd year
1887 4th year
1888 5th year
1889 6th year
1890 7th year
1891 8th year
1892 9th year
1893 10th year

Yes, his record is a little deceptive when viewed on baseball-reference site, as his tenth year in 1893 he did not pitch, and thus is shown having only played 9 seasons in the pitching group of statistics that leads off his entry on the site, but he played outfield in 14 games for two different NL teams in 1893, which shows up in his batting group of stats.

Brian

[Tomi]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Yes, his record is a little deceptive when viewed on baseball-reference site, as his tenth year in 1893 he did not pitch, and thus is shown having only played 9 seasons in the pitching group of statistics that leads off his entry on the site, but he played outfield in 14 games for two different NL teams in 1893, which shows up in his batting group of stats.

Brian

This would still be a 10th season, right? Unless his at bats was so low that it didn't qualify as a year. Kind of a head scratcher as he did play 10 years even though 1893 was not a full year due to at bats total.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Why does nobody ever talk about Will White? Why has he been forgotten to time?

Must be the combination of AA and a few partial seasons in that ten year career. Regardless, those numbers...

[G1911]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Why does nobody ever talk about Will White? Why has he been forgotten to time? What on earth am I missing to not understand why he wasn't a charter member of the HOF?

I would put White smilier to Caruthers as a pitcher. White couldn't hit though so he loses significant overall value. 3,500 innings, 121 ERA+, he's a legit candidate on paper.

He missed the milestones so he got overlooked in the past, and he's overlooked now because WAR doesn't like him; he also has the AA factor. WAR is written around the modern game with an adaptation to punish 19th century pitchers so they don't score higher than people want them to score; it's a pretty bad measure of 19th century baseball.

I would pick Jim McCormick over any other 19th century MLB era pitcher not in the hall.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Out of 7 full seasons, he had three 40 win seasons and two with over 30. 680 IP in 1879 and 75/76 of those games were CG. Fully realizing how different the game was then, it's still just staggering to me.

[Fred]

Edited to add - this is with regard to post 16.

Of the five original HOFers, only one played during the 19th century and when you consider the quality careers that the first five players had and the quality of other 19th century players, then there might be one reason he wasn't in the charter class. However, it took a LONG time (2013) for White to be inducted.

There really should be a "pioneer" section in the HOF with Ross Barnes and a few others included.

The following should probably be in the BST, but if anyone has a Caruthers OJ for sale, please let me know.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Fred

Edited to add - this is with regard to post 16.

Of the five original HOFers, only one played during the 19th century and when you consider the quality careers that the first five players had and the quality of other 19th century players, then there might be one reason he wasn't in the charter class. However, it took a LONG time (2013) for White to be inducted.

Fred,

I'm talking about Deacon's brother.

[Fred]

I was kind of wondering about that. I always think about Deacon White when I think about players with OJ cards (not that's what this thread is about).

Will's a good pick if you want to compare careers with Caruthers. Will's best years were in the AA also. That 40 loss season was in the NL.

[Mike Eisenbath]

I really LOVE that Goodwin card of Caruthers. I'm a sucker for anything having to do with players from those AA Browns teams, even though they're all out of my price range.

When I wrote the Cardinals Encyclopedia way back when, I made a point of including all those Browns teams in the franchise history as a direct decendant, even though the Cardinals organization officially recognizes its beginning as 1892. Caruthers was so vital to that club's success.

Anyone with other cards of him? I have no idea how many different ones exist.

Thanks for the thread, gentlemen!

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Rad_Hazard]

Here is my Caruthers, the incorrectly named "Scrapps" set. I know this has been posted before, but I always like to post this link when I post one of mine since these are likely the first ever gum cards.

https://loveofthegameauctions.com/th...rapps-tobacco/

As for Parisian Bob, I definitely think he belongs in the hall. The only pitcher ever with over 200 wins and less than 100 losses, won 40 games twice, and had a .282 batting average, even leading the league in SLG and OPS one season.

I think he is definitely a hall of famer and I hope he gets in, although I agree with some here that there are other 19th century guys that should go in before him such as:

Jack Glasscock
Jim McCormick
Tony Mullane
Bobby Mathews
Charlie Bennett
As well as pioneers such as Ross Barnes and Cal McVey.

I like this old poem about Glasscock:

The St. Louis Globe Democrat (August 29, 1898) published the following poem about Glasscock:

With a knife in his teeth and a gun in his belt,
With a dynamite bomb in his goodly right hand,
With a dagger in his shoe and a sword in his side
Tears the giant toward the spot where King Glasscock doth stand.
And the ambulance close at his heels tears along,
With bandages, plasters, splints, sponges, and such
And the doctors agree as they watch the “Great steal”
That of giant and of Glasscock, there won’t be much left.

[Mussari]

Charlie Buffington and Bob Caruthers on my E.R. Williams. It also has the double rr spelling of Carruthers. Very similar cases for 19th century Hall of Fame Candidates.