Jackie Robinson older brother Mack ~ 1936 Olympic sprinter in German set

[Ribbens]

Recently purchased a nice lot of 1936 Olympic cards including one showing Jackie Robinson's older brother Mack Robinson. Mack finished 2nd place to Jessie Owens in the 200m race. He is pictured on the second step on the diving board along with 11 USA athletes in Berlin.

[irishdenny]

Dankz David!

One of the Greatest "Slow Told Stories" in United States's History...

All eyes were on Jesse!
Than came His Big Brother...
In a Race that took Place in Germany...
In 1936...
In Front of Hitler!

Jus Awesome!!!
A 1 -2 Finish in a Race, Well... Jus Awesome

[Michael B]

This Reemstma card also exists in color. It is nice that it is one of the large cards from the set.

[stone193]

Thanx for posting David.

Didn't know that Jackie's brother was in the '36 Olympics.

I have a color version of the album but Mack was dissed with respect to pics.

Here's a color card of Jesse finishing the 200m race - Mack is no where in sight even tho he came in 2nd - getting the Silver.

Based on what I just read, Mack qualified by beating out the '32 Olympic gold medalist to make the team.

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by stone193

Thanx for posting David.

Didn't know that Jackie's brother was in the '36 Olympics.

I have a color version of the album but Mack was dissed with respect to pics.

Here's a color card of Jesse finishing the 200m race - Mack is no where in sight even tho he came in 2nd - getting the Silver.

Based on what I just read, Mack qualified by beating out the '32 Olympic gold medalist to make the team.

Mack Robinson is not dissed in this photo. This card shows round 1 heat 12 of the 100m dash. It is not the finals of the 200m dash. In heat 12 Owens finished first with a time of 10.3 seconds. Second was Kichizo Sasaki of Japan with a time of 11.0 seconds which qualified him for the second round. Third was José de Almeida of Brazil with a time of 11.1 seconds. He did not advance. The other runners in this heat were Dieudonné Devrindt of Belgium and Austin Cassar-Torreggiani of Malta. The card shows left to right Owens, Sasaki and de Almeida. The only other Brazilian to compete in the 100m was Oswaldo Domingues and he did not get past the first round (heat 9). In the quarter finals Owens did run against a Japanese athlete, Takayoshi Yoshioka, in heat two, but since no Brazilian advanced past the first round it could not be the quarter finals.

Owens did not run against any other Brazilians. José de Almeida did compete in the 200m, but he ran in heat 1 and did not advance. Owens ran in heat 3.

Additionally, Mack did not beat the 1932 gold medalist in the 200m to make the team. Eddie Tolan, won the gold medal in the 100m and 200m at the 1932 Olympics. By March, 1935 Tolan was competing as a professional when he won the 75yd, 100yd and 220yd events at the World Professional Sprint Championships in Melbourne, Australia. At the 1936 Olympic Track and field trials held at Randall's Island in New York the placings in the 200m were as follows:

1. Jesse Owens
2. Mack Robinson
3. Bob Packard
4. Ralph Metcalfe
5. Foy Draper
6. Harvey Wallender
7. Jack Weiershauser

The first 3 finishers competed in the 200m in Berlin. Packard made it to the quarter finals. Metcalfe won a silver and bronze (100m, 200m) at the 1932 Olympics. He won a silver and gold (100m, 4x100m relay) at the 1936 games. Foy Draper won a gold in the 4x100m relay in Berlin.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by Michael B

Mack Robinson is not dissed in this photo. This card shows round 1 heat 12 of the 100m dash. It is not the finals. In heat 12 Owens finished first with a time of 10.3 seconds. Second was Kichizo Sasaki of Japan with a time of 11.0 seconds which qualified him for the second round. Third was José de Almeida of Brazil with a time of 11.1 seconds. He did not advance. The other runners in this heat were Dieudonné Devrindt of Belgium and Austin Cassar-Torreggiani of Malta. The card shows left to right Owens, Sasaki and de Almeida. The only other Brazilian to compete in the 100m was Oswaldo Domingues and he did not get past the first round (heat 9). In the quarter finals Owens did run against a Japanese athlete, Takayoshi Yoshioka, in heat two, but since no Brazilian advanced past the first round it could not be the quarter finals.

Owens did not run against any other Brazilians. José de Almeida did compete in the 200m, but he ran in heat 1 and did not advance. Owens ran in heat 3.

Additionally, Mack did not beat the 1932 gold medalist in the 200m to make the team. Eddie Tolan, won the gold medal in the 100m and 200m at the 1932 Olympics. By March, 1935 Tolan was competing as a professional when he won the 75yd, 100yd and 220yd events at the World Professional Sprint Championships in Melbourne, Australia. At the 1936 Olympic Track and field trials held at Randall's Island in New York the placings in the 200m were as follows:

1. Jesse Owens
2. Mack Robinson
3. Bob Packard
4. Ralph Metcalfe
5. Foy Draper
6. Harvey Wallender
7. Jack Weiershauser

The first 3 finishers competed in the 200m in Berlin. Packard made it to the quarter finals. Metcalfe won a silver and bronze (100m, 200m) at the 1932 Olympics. He won a silver and gold (100m, 4x100m relay) at the 1936 games. Foy Draper won a gold in the 4x100m relay in Berlin.

Thanks for stating the actual facts and setting the record straight.

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

Thanks for stating the actual facts and setting the record straight.

Glad to do it Brent. Reemtsma Cigarettenfabriken created these cards with the intent that they would be glued into the albums. As such the information on the back was not always accurate. They did Olympic albums for 1924, 1928, 1932 and 1936. The first three were single volumes. The 1936 had two volumes, Band 1 and Band 2. Jack Shea, the American double gold medalist in speedskating at the 1932 Olympics is misidentified on the back of a card that shows him. I have an original press photo that is the same image as the card which gives the correct identity.

Life member International Society of Olympic Historians.

[stone193]

Mack Robinson is not dissed in this photo. This card shows round 1 heat 12 of the 100m dash. It is not the finals

Thanx for the information.

Would never have known this from the album.

Here's the article where I got the info on his qualification:

[stone193]

This card shows round 1 heat 12 of the 100m dash.

Did you mean 200m dash for this card?

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by stone193

Did you mean 200m dash for this card?

No, 100 meters. There were twelve heats in round 1 of the 100m dash. There were only 8 heats in round 1 of the 200m dash. When I wrote my reply the third sentence should have said "It is not the finals of the 200m" rather than "It is not the finals". I could see where that may cause confusion. I just corrected that sentence in my original reply.

[stone193]

Thanx for the reply Michael.

I have no knowledge of olympics.

When I saw the thread, it reminded me I had this album that I picked up in a lot of WS programs. Had no idea Robinson had a brother in the olympics.

The only card of the 200m race in my album is the one I posted.



The only info I knew was what was on my scan regarding the trials and Mack.

Appreciate the information.

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by stone193

Thanx for the reply Michael.

I have no knowledge of olympics.

When I saw the thread, it reminded me I had this album that I picked up in a lot of WS programs. Had no idea Robinson had a brother in the olympics.

The only card of the 200m race in my album is the one I posted.



The only info I knew was what was on my scan regarding the trials and Mack.

Appreciate the information.

The card you show is from the Mühlen Franck set. Mühlen Franck Kaffee issued these cards. These were a more standard card size and printed on regular cardstock unlike the Reemstma aka Sammelwerk set which was printed on thin paper. The Franck's were probably the first true Olympic only card set and they covered the Winter Olympics in Garmisch-Partenkirchen and the Summer Olympics in Berlin. The set was purportedly 200 cards though no official checklist was issued. The first Olympic basketball card was in this set. It shows an American player (William Wheatley?) making a layup. There are three Jesse Owens' cards in the set - 100m, long jump and the card you have for the 200m. There is also a card of the silver medal winning Canadian Ice Hockey team and at least two cards showing Adolph Hitler.

[stone193]

Wow Michael - I didn't see this card when running thru them!

Outdoor basketball!

I looked up the '36 roster but they don't include jersey numbers.

And, on one web, I found a list of who used what numbers in the olympics - unfortunately #12 doesn't go all the way to 1936.

Thanx for all the info.

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by stone193

Wow Michael - I didn't see this card when running thru them!

Outdoor basketball!

I looked up the '36 roster but they don't include jersey numbers.

And, on one web, I found a list of who used what numbers in the olympics - unfortunately #12 doesn't go all the way to 1936.

Thanx for all the info.

The U.S team at the Olympics was different then it is now. There was an Olympic qualifying tournament. Universal Pictures won, McPherson Oilers finished second and the University of Washington finished third. As the winners, Universal was able to place 7 players on the 14 man roster - Duane Swanson, Carl Knowles, Carl Shy, Sam Balter, Frank Lubin, Art Mollner and Don Piper. McPherson got 6 players - Joe Fortenberry, Jack Ragland, Bill Wheatly, Francis Johnson, Tex Gibbons and Willard Schmidt. The University of Washington got 1 - Ralph Bishop. They decided that the Universal members would get the first 7 numbers and the other players the rest. Additionally, they would alternate games. The first round was a walkover. The second round the Universal players beat Estonia on August 9. They got a bye in the third round. In the quarterfinals McPherson/UWashington players beat the Philippines on August 12. In the semifinals the Universal players beat Mexico August 13. The gold medal game was the McPherson/UWashington players beating Canada August 14. Since the McPherson/UWashington players won the gold medal game they attended the medal ceremony. It appears that only five players were allowed to attend the medal ceremony. Bill Wheatly received the gold medal and laurel wreath on the medal stand. The other players at the ceremony were Jack Ragland, Willard Schmidt, Joe Fortenberry and Ralph Bishop.

All of this information was provided to me in 1998 by Frank Lubin. He wrote a letter to me providing this information and identified all of the players on a photo of the medal ceremony. Lubin is generally considered one of the greatest basketball players before the advent of professional basketball. His parents were born in Lithuania. After the Olympics he would coach the Lithuanian national team (Americans of Lithuanian descent) to the Eurobasket championship in 1937. In 1939 as player/coach of the team they won the championship again. He is considered the grandfather/godfather of Lithuanian basketball. He used the Lithuanian version of his name, Prakas Lubinas, while playing over there.

As noted on the back of the card, this is the game versus the Philippines. As noted above, the McPherson/UWashington players competed in this game as it was the second game played by the U.S.

[Topnotchsy]

Here's a signed page from the 1937 Pasadena Junior College yearbook.

[HR JR]

Originally Posted by Michael B

The card you show is from the Mühlen Franck set. Mühlen Franck Kaffee issued these cards. These were a more standard card size and printed on regular cardstock unlike the Reemstma aka Sammelwerk set which was printed on thin paper. The Franck's were probably the first true Olympic only card set and they covered the Winter Olympics in Garmisch-Partenkirchen and the Summer Olympics in Berlin. The set was purportedly 200 cards though no official checklist was issued. The first Olympic basketball card was in this set. It shows an American player (William Wheatley?) making a layup. There are three Jesse Owens' cards in the set - 100m, long jump and the card you have for the 200m. There is also a card of the silver medal winning Canadian Ice Hockey team and at least two cards showing Adolph Hitler.

I was checking through the threads looking for some help with this set. I purchased a Lot of the Reemtsma (Band II) cards and was surprised to find that they were printed on such thin paper. The other question I had, and I was hoping you could help me with, is are there different sizes for these cards?

I find online that the cards measure about 5" x 7" but the ones I purchased measure about 4 3/4" x 3 1/8"

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

Thanks for stating the actual facts and setting the record straight.

+1

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by HR JR

I was checking through the threads looking for some help with this set. I purchased a Lot of the Reemtsma (Band II) cards and was surprised to find that they were printed on such thin paper. The other question I had, and I was hoping you could help me with, is are there different sizes for these cards?

I find online that the cards measure about 5" x 7" but the ones I purchased measure about 4 3/4" x 3 1/8"

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Hi,

There were two sizes of inserts for the Olympia books. I do not want to call them cards or photos. They are not cards and I would not equate them with true photographs any more than one I would cut out of a magazine. They were 8 cm x 12 cm and 12 cm x 17 cm and were issued solely to be glued into the books. Remember that these are sized in metric. There were both color and black and white inserts. I do not know how they decided which would be color and which would be black and white and which would be smaller versus larger. I have the 1932 book handy. Babe Didrikson was on 3 small inserts and one large all black and white. Ellen Braumüller, German gold medalist in javelin is large and in color as is Lillian Copeland, American gold medalist in discus. All of the medalists is decathlon have small individual color inserts and are on a large color one in the medal ceremony. At one time I also had probably a complete set of unmounted cards from 1936 Band 1 & 2 (Volume 1 in 1936 was the winter games, Volume 2 was the summer games). I did notice that any insert that featured 'der Neger', German for 'the Negro', appears to be in black and white, though Edward Gordon winner of the long jump in 1932 got a large card.

The thinking behind these was that you would acquire the book then purchase a bilder-gruppe (photo group) for that book. The envelope that contained inserts listed the numbers on the outside so you knew which ones were included as they were not consecutive. You needed to acquire all of the envelopes to complete the set. Since Reemstma also did other subject books the envelopes were numbered. For instance 1936 Olympia Band 1 had bilder-gruppe(s) 53 through 56. Envelope 55 had the large inserts, the remainder were small. There were 50 in each small envelope and 25 in the large for 175 inserts for that book. The envelopes were also identified on the outside with 'Die bilder der Sammlung "Olympia 1936 Band 1 (or 2) - The images of the collection Olympia 1936 Band 1. I know there were 175 inserts in the 1936 Band 1 (winter). I believe there were 200 inserts for Band 2. You can actually find people from Germany selling complete unmounted sets for Band 1 and Band 2 in their original envelopes. I even recall seeing someone selling the complete group for both Bands for 1936 in the original mailing box. They should not be that expensive. In my opinion the people trying to get $5 and up for the individual inserts or over $30 dollars for a complete volume is blowing smoke out of there rectum. They are not rare and are not that valuable. I will say they are nice to reproduce. I made 8x10 photos of the one showing Jack Shea and had him sign them back in the late 1990s. I also made photographs of others to go with autographs I was selling.

I hope this answers your questions.

[Michael B]

I was re-reading the thread to see if I made any silly mistakes in my answers. Fortunately no. The group image in the original post lists Johnson, Peacock and Robinson on the back. I am not sure how accurate the information is. Eulace Peacock did not make the Olympic team and did not travel to Berlin. The other Blacks on the team other than Owens and Mack Robinson were Dave Albritton, Cornelius Johnson, Ralph Metcalfe, Archie Williams, James LuValle, John Woodruff and Fritz Pollard, son of the football HOFer. Without comparing the faces, I would not positively state it is Mack. As a side note this is a good time to dispel one of the biggest myths about the 1936 Olympics. Hitler DID NOT snub Jesse Owens. On the first full day of the games there were two athletics (track and field) finals - women's javelin and the high jump. The javelin was won by Tilly Fleischer of Germany. The high jump was won by Cornelius Johnson, the pride of Compton Junior College. Hitler greeted Fleischer in his box after her medal ceremony. Johnson finished later in the day and Hitler left before the medal ceremony. The next day he was told, probably by Avery Brundage, president of the American Olympic Committee, that if he did not congratulate every winner he would not congratulate any. And so it went. The myth, which I believe was also perpetuated in the movie is a pile of ... and don't get me started on Marty Glickman.

I just acquired a program from the 1936 U.S. Olympic track trials signed by almost every American medalist from the 1936 games. When I get a chance to scan it I will post in the monthly autograph pickups.

Tilly Fleischer signature from the 1932 Olympics
Fleischer, Tilly (1932).jpg

Cornelius Johnson signature from the 1934 AAU Championships in Milwaukee.
Johnson, Cornelius (1934).jpg

[HR JR]

[QUOTE=Michael B;2004173]I was re-reading the thread to see if I made any silly mistakes in my answers. Fortunately no. The group image in the original post lists Johnson, Peacock and Robinson on the back. I am not sure how accurate the information is. Eulace Peacock did not make the Olympic team and did not travel to Berlin. The other Blacks on the team other than Owens and Mack Robinson were Dave Albritton, Cornelius Johnson, Ralph Metcalfe, Archie Williams, James LuValle, John Woodruff and Fritz Pollard, son of the football HOFer. Without comparing the faces, I would not positively state it is Mack. As a side note this is a good time to dispel one of the biggest myths about the 1936 Olympics. Hitler DID NOT snub Jesse Owens. On the first full day of the games there were two athletics (track and field) finals - women's javelin and the high jump. The javelin was won by Tilly Fleischer of Germany. The high jump was won by Cornelius Johnson, the pride of Compton Junior College. Hitler greeted Fleischer in his box after her medal ceremony. Johnson finished later in the day and Hitler left before the medal ceremony. The next day he was told, probably by Avery Brundage, president of the American Olympic Committee, that if he did not congratulate every winner he would not congratulate any. And so it went. The myth, which I believe was also perpetuated in the movie is a pile of ... and don't get me started on Marty Glickman.

I just acquired a program from the 1936 U.S. Olympic track trials signed by almost every American medalist from the 1936 games. When I get a chance to scan it I will post in the monthly autograph pickups.

.......

Thank you for the information!!! Really helps as I acquired a few of these cards recently and I was surprised by the paper they were printed on and how well they've been preserved considering. Regarding the Hitler myth, I was reading an article where Helen Stephens stated that Hitler congratulated her after winning the 100m and essentially groped her and invited her to a private residence (which she declined). Could it be that he was still managing to congratulate certain athletes behind the scenes? I imagine that Hitler could do whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted, despite restrictions put in place by any IOC director.

Nice autos btw!!!! Some truly historic stuff.

[jason.1969]

I’ve spent some time trying to figure this card out, and my conclusion is that Mack Robinson does not appear at all.

The two Black athletes are almost certainly Eulace Peacock (third from left) and Cornelius Johnson (on steps)

As for “Robinson,” he is actually (white) Fresno State Bulldog and 1935 AAU 800 meter champion Elroy Robinson.

More info here if you like:

https://1939bruins.wordpress.com/202...rd-that-wasnt/

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by jason.1969

I’ve spent some time trying to figure this card out, and my conclusion is that Mack Robinson does not appear at all.

The two Black athletes are almost certainly Eulace Peacock (third from left) and Cornelius Johnson (on steps)

As for “Robinson,” he is actually (white) Fresno State Bulldog and 1935 AAU 800 meter champion Elroy Robinson.

More info here if you like:

https://1939bruins.wordpress.com/202...rd-that-wasnt/

That would make sense. I always suspected that this image was taken at the AAU Championships as the patch on their tops is AAU and not Olympic. This could not have been taken at the Olympic Trials as they were held on Randall's Island in New York City. They did have an outdoor swimming pool there, but the athletes wore the jerseys of their affiliated colleges and clubs. The 1936 AAU Championships were held July 3-4 at Princeton, but Robinson did not compete. The three listed on the back - Peacock, Johnson and Robinson all won at the 1935 AAU Championships held at the University of Nebraska. They did/do have an outdoor pool near Memorial Stadium in Lincoln. This meet was one of the few times Owens did not win the 100m. In that race Peacock was first, Metcalfe second and Owens third. Peacock also defeated Owens in the Long Jump during that meet. Peacock was injured before the 1936 Olympic trials and did not even make it out of the heats. He finished last (7th) in the second heat.

[jason.1969]

Not only that but the Olympic Trials took place after the card was already out.

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by jason.1969

Not only that but the Olympic Trials took place after the card was already out.

That would depend upon which Bilder-Gruppen the card was in. A large number of the cards show action during the games - 4 different Owens, Glenn Hardin, Kitei Son, Jimmy Luvalle, handball etc. If any of the cards in that particular envelope are from action during the games then this card was issued after the games.

[jason.1969]

This was from Band I, which came out in May 1936. The focus of the album was the recently concluded Winter Games, the history of the modern Olympics, and the upcoming Summer Games. The article covers all this.


Jason
Twitter: @heavyj28

[Topnotchsy]

Here's a cool Jackie-related piece with Mack's autograph and many others close to Jackie (the Campanella is ghost-signed I assume).