When Did the Last Surviving T206 Subject Pass Away?

[piecesofthegame]

I randomly came across the baseball reference page for t206 player Charles Seitz and realized he passed away in August 1980 when I was 2 years old, making him the only player from the set (that I am aware of) who’s life overlapped with mine.
Thought this was cool and frightening all at the same time! Were there any others who lived into the 1980s? Couldn’t seem to find that info.

[Pat R]

Rube Marquard was the last living T206 subject that played in the major leagues he died on June 1 1980.

[piecesofthegame]

Thanks for that Pat. So Seitz died in August 1980, a couple months later. Although he did not play in majors, would he be last player from the set to pass away?

[oldjudge]

Not the same question but the oldest living Old Judge subject, Dummy Hoy, died in 1961 at the ripe old age of 99.

[piecesofthegame]

Jay…to take that a step further,
If you were 10 years old when you (hypothetically) met Hoy, you would only be about 74 today. So there are probably still plenty of living people who personally knew an Old Judge player. That blows my mind!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by piecesofthegame

Jay…to take that a step further,
If you were 10 years old when you (hypothetically) met Hoy, you would only be about 74 today. So there are probably still plenty of living people who personally knew an Old Judge player. That blows my mind!

We are probably close to the point where very few people are left who remember seeing Cobb, In addition of course to retaining long-term memory, I think you would have had to be maybe 7 or 8 at the time to truly remember (his last year was 1928), so born 1920 or 1921. Ruth played through 1935, so probably quite a few folks left in their late 90s who recall seeing him play. That's pretty amazing to me.

[G1911]

Red Hoff died in 1998 at the age of 107. He was in T207, and I believe was the last living 1909-1912 ATC card subject, sport or non-sport. Track athlete Abel Kiviat died in 1991 at 99 and was in T218.

[piecesofthegame]

Wow, 107! I wonder if that’s the oldest MLB player ever.

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by piecesofthegame

Wow, 107! I wonder if that’s the oldest MLB player ever.

He was until the Negro Leagues became recognized as MLB. Silas Simmons, who played two games in 1926, lived to be 111 years old. Hoff is second now. There are two living MLB players who are 100 years old. Art Schallock and Bill Greason.

[jingram058]

My grandfather on my mother's side had an uncle (his father's brother) who fought in the Union Army in the Civil War. My grandfather knew him, and liked him. My grandfather was born in 1884 and passed away in 1984. Uncle Frank died in 1915. Pretty incredible to me. Not pre-war card related but...

[oldjudge]

My dad was born in 1900 in NYC. He could have run into Old Judge players on the street.

[Mungo Hungo]

I have one T206 card, of Tommy Leach, which I received at random when I was around 10, through a TV Guide ad.

Leach died the year I was born (1969) in Haines City, Fla., where I was a newspaper reporter in the 1990s. He was very active in the community, so I undoubtedly came across people who had known or at least talked to him.

[LEHR]

Not trying to hijack this thread, but does anyone know who the last living player was from the 1933 Goudey set?

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by LEHR

Not trying to hijack this thread, but does anyone know who the last living player was from the 1933 Goudey set?

And to slightly sidetrack down the Goudey hijack line, I believe the oldest surviving player in the 1934 Goudey set was Linus Frey, who passed away in 2009 at the age of 99, and the oldest surviving player in the 1938 Goudey set was Bobby Doerr, who passed away in 2017 at the age of 101.

Not sure about the 1933 Goudey set.

As far as the T206 question, I pasted a list created on the forum by Tom H. back in 2009 below containing the oldest surviving T206 players (minus the Seitz). It may be missing other non-major league players:

Rube Marquard 6-1-1980
Paddy Livingston 9-19-1977
Al Shaw 12-30-1974
Fred Snodgrass 4-5-1974
Larry Doyle 3-1-1974
George McBride 7-2-1973
Dutch Jordan 12-23-1972
Fred Parent 11-2-1972
Davy Jones 3-30-1972
Donie Bush 3-28-1972
Zach Wheat 3-11-1972
Chief Meyers 7-25-1971
Harry Pattee 7-17-1971

Brian

[Orioles1954]

Off the top of my head it might be Milt Gaston who diied in 2002. For the 1934 Goudey set Billy Werber died around 2009. I got to have him sign it at age 100.

Edit: Duly noted about Lonny Frey.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

Off the top of my head it might be Milt Gaston who diied in 2002. For the 1934 Goudey set Billy Werber died around 2009. I got to have him sign it at age 100.

Edit: Duly noted about Lonny Frey.

That may be half correct. I think the last player did die in 2002, but it was Willis Hudlin. Gaston passed in '96.

[Orioles1954]

Thanks. Those two guys were always the same to me!

[gregndodgers]

Ok, speaking of old people (and way off topic), but I was shocked to find out that our tenth President, John Tyler, still has a living grandson. Look it up!

[pclpads]

Appropo of nothing, other than the foregoing discussion of deceased former ballplayers, but I saw a post earlier today that Charlie Maxwell had passed over the weekend. He was 97 and perhaps the oldest - then living - former ML player.

[packs]

John Tyler was the 10th President and died in 1862. He had his youngest child when he was 63, who then went on to father a child when he was 75. Today, there is still one living grandson of a president who ended his term in 1845.

Ah just saw someone beat me to it.

[piecesofthegame]

Originally Posted by packs

John Tyler was the 10th President and died in 1862. He had his youngest child when he was 63, who then went on to father a child when he was 75. Today, there is still one living grandson of a president who ended his term in 1845.

This is simply mind-blowing!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Not too many people today can say their grandfather was born in 1790. I believe the grandson, who is 96, is also related to Pocahontas on his mother's side. 234 years in three people. It's astonishing.

[akleinb611]

There are plenty of people today who have a living great-grandparent. I tell people that my maternal great-grandfather was born in 1817. His little village in Poland was probably still cleaning up after the Napoleonic Wars!

Alan

[toppcat]

1952 Topps is down to less than a nickel pack's contents:

Bobby Shantz (99)
Tommie Brown (97)
Bob Ross (96)
Vern Law (94)

[bleeckerstreetcards]

1948/49 Leaf lost its last subject in 2017, Bobby Doerr.

[G1911]

It looks like only Tommy Brown (1944!) and Bobby Shantz remain of players who played in the 1940's.

Is Tommy Brown's 1949 Bowman the oldest card of a living player now?

[Hankphenom]

I have a vivid memory of meeting Clark Griffith, who was born in 1869, in 1955 when I was nine. He took me by the hand and we rode in a little elevator to his second-floor office at Griffith Stadium.

[Bpm0014]

^^^ So fkn cool!!

[egri]

Originally Posted by G1911

Is Tommy Brown's 1949 Bowman the oldest card of a living player now?

He is; it’s pretty crazy to think we’re down to one player left from an entire decade of card sets.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

Off the top of my head it might be Milt Gaston who diied in 2002. For the 1934 Goudey set Billy Werber died around 2009. I got to have him sign it at age 100.

Edit: Duly noted about Lonny Frey.

I knew there was another player in the 1934 Goudey issue that was vying for last survivor for the set...thanks for providing the Werber name. Billy Werber died on 1/22/2009, thus allowing Frey to snatch away the crown, living until 9/13/2009.

Brian

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by bleeckerstreetcards

1948/49 Leaf lost its last subject in 2017, Bobby Doerr.

Bobby Doerr might hold the title for oldest survivor of card sets. Looks like he is for the 1938 Goudey and 1948/49 Leaf. I wonder if he is also the top dog for the 1939 Play Ball, 1940 Play Ball, 1941 Play Ball and 1941 Double Play?

Brian

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by gregndodgers

Ok, speaking of old people (and way off topic), but I was shocked to find out that our tenth President, John Tyler, still has a living grandson. Look it up!

Also quite possibly the last living grandson of a Confederate Congressman.

[bbcard1]

Originally Posted by bleeckerstreetcards

1948/49 Leaf lost its last subject in 2017, Bobby Doerr.

I believe Doerr was the last living subject of the 1941 Play Ball and Double Play sets. I believe Dario Lodigiani was the last living player from the 1941 Goudey set.

[egri]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Bobby Doerr might hold the title for oldest survivor of card sets. Looks like he is for the 1938 Goudey and 1948/49 Leaf. I wonder if he is also the top dog for the 1939 Play Ball, 1940 Play Ball, 1941 Play Ball and 1941 Double Play?

Brian

He was, at one point, I was trying to find a 1938 Goudey to send to him, and I had an easier time finding a signed one than an unsigned one. I know we make the joke here about Bob Feller and unsigned 8x10s, but here it was actually true.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

I have a vivid memory of meeting Clark Griffith, who was born in 1869, in 1955 when I was nine. He took me by the hand and we rode in a little elevator to his second-floor office at Griffith Stadium.

THAT is awesome

[milkit1]

Gus Suhr was the last surviving 1933 Goudey player.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by milkit1

Gus Suhr was the last surviving 1933 Goudey player.

Thanks...looks like Gus passed away on January 15th, 2004.

Brian

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

My dad was born in 1900 in NYC. He could have run into Old Judge players on the street.

Similarly, my dad was born in 1897 in Chicago, where he may have crossed paths with Old Judge players. I recall Dad telling me that he and his buddies played stickball on the streets of Chicago.

[T206Collector]

I’ve identified 2 Minor Leaguers and 5 Southern Leaguers who may have never died. In a couple of cases, I’m starting to think they may never have existed — a cross-up in first and last name, someone else’s photo, etc.

Minor Leaguers (DOD)
Phelan, Jimmy (N/A)
Poland, Phil (N/A)

Southern Leaguers (DOD)
Miller, Molly (N/A)
Reagan, Ed (N/A)
Ryan, Ray (N/A)
Smith, Carlos (N/A)
White, Foley (N/A)

[tjisonline]

Amazing research.

Originally Posted by T206Collector

I’ve identified 2 Minor Leagues and 5 Southern Leaguers who may have never died. In a couple of cases, I’m starting to think they may never have existed — a cross-up in first and last name, someone else’s photo, etc.

Minor Leaguers (DOD)
Phelan, Jimmy (N/A)
Poland, Phil (N/A)

Southern Leaguers (DOD)
Miller, Molly (N/A)
Reagan, Ed (N/A)
Ryan, Ray (N/A)
Smith, Carlos (N/A)
White, Foley (N/A)

[theshowandme]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

I’ve identified 2 Minor Leagues and 5 Southern Leaguers who may have never died. In a couple of cases, I’m starting to think they may never have existed — a cross-up in first and last name, someone else’s photo, etc.

Minor Leaguers (DOD)
Phelan, Jimmy (N/A)
Poland, Phil (N/A)

Southern Leaguers (DOD)
Miller, Molly (N/A)
Reagan, Ed (N/A)
Ryan, Ray (N/A)
Smith, Carlos (N/A)
White, Foley (N/A)

John Phelan is Jimmy Phelan: http://www.baseball-reference.com/mi...d=phelan001joh

Philip Poland: https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...d=poland002phi

Charles Miller is Molly Miller: https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...d=miller002cha

Ed Reagan is Eddie Reagan: https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...=reagan002edw#

Ray Ryan: https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...d=ryan--001ray

Carlos Smith: https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...d=smith-006car

Foley White: http://www.baseball-reference.com/mi...d=white-001fol

[egri]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Bobby Doerr might hold the title for oldest survivor of card sets. Looks like he is for the 1938 Goudey and 1948/49 Leaf. I wonder if he is also the top dog for the 1939 Play Ball, 1940 Play Ball, 1941 Play Ball and 1941 Double Play?

Brian

Got these done in March 2017 and October 2014. I also had him sign a 1948 Leaf in September 2014 that I don't have a picture of with me, and I'm away from home right now. At the time, it didn't occur to me to send a Double Play, the 1940 Play Ball set didn't appeal to me, and I mentioned my struggles with Goudey in a different post. I wish I could have a mulligan now...

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not too many people today can say their grandfather was born in 1790. I believe the grandson, who is 96, is also related to Pocahontas on his mother's side. 234 years in three people. It's astonishing.

I've told people about that John Tyler fact for years because it's crazy to think someone alive now has a grandfather born in 1790. There's also a grandson (edited to add a granddaughter is also alive) of Grover Cleveland alive. Cleveland was born in 1837, so that's a big difference from John Tyler, but the grandson is 24 years younger than Tyler's grandson, so that cuts away some of that difference.

Back to Tyler. I'm big into family history and my own first/last name has a long history, though it was Johannes originally, not the Americanized John. In comparison to someone who has a grandfather born in 1790, my great-great-great-great grandfather Johannes was also born in 1790. So Tyler's grandson only has me beat by four generations.

[T206Collector]

Thanks for the heads up! Last time I had checked Baseball Reference didn’t have DOB for any of those 7. Seems like now only Phelan, Poland, and Miller are missing birthdays.

Originally Posted by theshowandme

John Phelan is Jimmy Phelan: http://www.baseball-reference.com/mi...d=phelan001joh

Philip Poland: https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...d=poland002phi

Charles Miller is Molly Miller: https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...d=miller002cha

Ed Reagan is Eddie Reagan: https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...=reagan002edw#

Ray Ryan: https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...d=ryan--001ray

Carlos Smith: https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...d=smith-006car

Foley White: http://www.baseball-reference.com/mi...d=white-001fol

[Kidnapped18]

These are the players I don't have info on
#22 Bastian, Jack ??
#335 Miller, Molly ??
#390 Phelan, Jimmy ??
#395 Poland, Phil ??
#283 Lentz, Harry Sentz ??
#501 Westlake, James ??

[deucetwins]

Back to the Tyler sub-thread. So fathering a child at 75? Bravo and well done. Definitely worth going down the rabbit hole to research this one.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Kidnapped18

These are the players I don't have info on
#22 Bastian, Jack ??
#335 Miller, Molly ??
#390 Phelan, Jimmy ??
#395 Poland, Phil ??
#283 Lentz, Harry Sentz ??
#501 Westlake, James ??

John Kenney ("Jack") Bastian
Birth: May 10, 1883
Newburgh, NY
Death: June 14, 1959
Newburgh, NY

Harry Sentz
Birth: January 31, 1883
Baltimore, MD
Death: January 8, 1932
Baltimore, MD

James Arthur Westlake
Birth: November 1, 1874
New Jersey
Death: August 31, 1935
Essex, NJ

[T206Collector]

Also, in case anyone is interested, T206 players started dying while the cards were being produced between 1909-11 (Powers, McGann, Nichols, and Joss), and thereafter died at a fairly low annual cadence of no more than 15 players (1947 and 1956) on an annual basis over the next 60-70 years, with 40% (159) dying between 1947 and 1961.

[gregndodgers]

Back to Tyler for those interested, the family consists of just 8 generations in America (based on the living grandson) going back to Henry Tyler who was born about 1607 possibly in London, England and who immigrated to America and subsequently acquired the “Middle Plantation” in Virginia, that eventually became Williamsburg. So the family has been in America around 400 years and have had just 8 generations! Crazy! All of the men were having children with one leg already in the coffin!

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Also, in case anyone is interested, T206 players started dying while the cards were being produced between 1909-11 (Powers, McGann, Nichols, and Joss), and thereafter died at a fairly low annual cadence of no more than 15 players (1947 and 1956) on an annual basis over the next 60-70 years, with 40% (159) dying between 1947 and 1961.

I guess if you were a player in the T206 set, 1947 to 1961 was a nice stretch to get through still alive.


Brian