T206 Marquard Armpit 8 Variation

[thehoodedcoder]

OK. So I just bought this card in a 3 way deal. It is the T206 Marquard Armpit 8 Variation/Error

I'm pretty sure it is the card Lemke evaluated in his blog but I can't swear to it.

I have seen a minimal thread or two about it but never anything really substantial. Can anyone shed some light on this. Additionally, about how many of them are known to exist and what if any grades have been assigned to the known cards?

Kevin

[thehoodedcoder]

no responses. boink.

[Jantz]

Here is my box score on the Marquard "8"

2 Piedmont 460s Highest graded - PSA 3
2 Sweet Caporal 460s Highest graded - PSA 4

2 Marquards with red dash Both have a Sweet Caporal 460 backs. Highest graded - PSA 5


Jantz

[Craig M]

Way to give Kevin some much needed love Jantz

[Jantz]

Since my earlier post, another Net54 member informed me via PM that he recently bought another Marquard "8" with a Sweet Caporal 460 back graded a PSA 5.


Jantz

[thehoodedcoder]

can we get some scans pasted here

when you say red dash what do you mean?

kevin

[Jantz]

Here are a few

[AddieJoss]

How much of a premium do these get?

[thehoodedcoder]

as far as i know there is no known public pricing.

i paid similiar to a higher end missing red ink/nodgrass or other variation. i classified it in the 800 to 1k range.

then again it does have the population count of a dopner and murr'y.

its really a subjective thing at this point. how bad do you want one or how bad do you want to sell one?


kevin

[t206blogcom]

If memory serves, there was a Marquard '8' armpit card being sold on here for around $125-$250 within the last year.

[thehoodedcoder]

if that person did not sell it, and wants to sell it, i will gladly buy it for that price.

let me know if you can find that thread as i am not seeing it any where.

kevin

[t206blogcom]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

if that person did not sell it, and wants to sell it, i will gladly buy it for that price.

let me know if you can find that thread as i am not seeing it any where.

kevin

Kevin - I believe it sold as I can remember being too late when I inquired about it.

[bbcard1]

FWIW, I still think it's a "B" I could see it being a Boston B, but there's nothing precise about it...that said, there were virtually no numbers used in baseball at that time. It's an odd thing, though not one I have any particular desire to chase for my collection.

[Runscott]

There's a thread somewhere that has quite a range of opinions. We're probably not getting too much discussion this time around because anyone with anything to say exhausted themselves in the last one.

[Bridwell]

Here's a link to the last discussion on the Red 8:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...d+red+8&page=3

I had mentioned that I had seen 6 of these now, with several different backs so it seems like a legit printing variation that appeared on many of the different backs.

There may have been a problem with the original printing plate and it got corrected later. This card is a bargain compared to other print variations such as Nodgrass or Mur'ay that can sell for thousands of dollars.

[Marslife]

Hey Fellas!

Picked up a Sweet "RED DASH" at the National on Friday :-) for my Marquard Follow-Thru Back run. Only Need the Lenox Brown now to complete the RUN!

Cliff

DSCF4139.jpg

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DSCF4140.jpg

[Pat R]

Do you know there's a blue variation Cliff.

Marquard blue PD.jpg

Marquard blue SC.jpg

[RCFire82]

Interesting this thread just started back up. Saw an "8 armpit variation" for sale on Ebay 2 or 3 weeks ago. It was a buy-it-now for something like $4oo or $5oo. I passed on it, and it got picked up pretty quickly....was that a steal that I missed out on??? I'd seen/read about these before, but wasn't overly sure about them.

[RCFire82]

Here it was.

[Ronnie73]

Yes, that price was a steal. Here's a link to a 2017 auction for one.

https://bid.loveofthegameauctions.co...e?itemid=14309

I have a PSA 4 Piedmont 460 in my collection. I paid $416 in June 2017 for mine. It was sold on ebay by PWCC but the print mark was not mentioned, so I got it cheap.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Ronnie73

Yes, that price was a steal. Here's a link to a 2017 auction for one.

https://bid.loveofthegameauctions.co...e?itemid=14309

I have a PSA 4 Piedmont 460 in my collection. I paid $416 in June 2017 for mine. It was sold on ebay by PWCC but the print mark was not mentioned, so I got it cheap.

No offense intended Ron but I don't think that is even close to the current value of the variation. I think the two things that had an affect on the final price of that auction were PSA putting it on the flip and the talk of it being a cataloged variation (which I don't think it ever was or is).

Another example in the same grade sold for less than half the price a year later and I think the owners of either of the PSA 3's would be lucky to get half the price of the REA example today.

https://robertedwardauctions.com/auc...red-variation/

As someone who follows the variations/print flaws closely I can say in most cases there's very little if any premium paid for them if they're not cataloged.
A good example is the Willett "hockey stick" variation which in my opinion is one of the coolest print flaws and that gets very little value recognition at all.

The only un-cataloged t206 variation that I've seen with a premium recently is the Anderson.

[Ronnie73]

Originally Posted by Pat R

No offense intended Ron but I don't think that is even close to the current value of the variation. I think the two things that had an affect on the final price of that auction were PSA putting it on the flip and the talk of it being a cataloged variation (which I don't think it ever was or is).

Another example in the same grade sold for less than half the price a year later and I think the owners of either of the PSA 3's would be lucky to get half the price of the REA example today.

Hi Pat, I agree that the price in the 2017 auction got a boost from the PSA label and even the mention of Net54 in the listing. I don't follow the T206 prices like I used to the last few years. But I still believe that the card that was sold for the $510 was a great price, when you look at what a regular PSA 4 sells for and the difference in price to get the variation, I would have bought it if I saw it and gotten it relabeled and relisted it as the variation for twice my costs into the card. The only other thing is it's not the nicest looking 4. Kinda reminds me of the PSA 4 Zimmerman Tolstoi that I once had.

Here's my PSA 4 Marquard.

[Marslife]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Do you know there's a blue variation Cliff.

Attachment 527508

Attachment 527509

Pat,

your killing me :-)

Is this the only "Blue Blotch" or are there more out there?

Geesh....

Cliff

[Ronnie73]

I just noticed that my card has a line at the center of NY of the same color pink/red. I looked at about 12 different cards with the red 8 and none have that pink line like my card. Just kinda odd but figured I'd mention it.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Marslife

Pat,

your killing me :-)

Is this the only "Blue Blotch" or are there more out there?

Geesh....

Cliff

Hey Cliff, the two different ones that I posted are the only scans I have but there's no doubt that there are probably more out there especially since it is found on more than one back. Now I'm not saying there would be a lot of them but I'd be surprised if there wasn't at least a handful of others.

[Oscar_Stanage]

Hi,
I picked this up in a private sale at the Natty and had no idea it was a variation (I do not think the seller did either).
I paid a little more than I should have- no wifi to check the prices.....

I later learned its a variation- is there any premium associated with this variation?

[Ronnie73]

Sorry that my picture didn't show up.

Here's a link to the scan. Hopefully this will at least work for now.

http://www.myt206.com/net54/marquardprintmark.jpg

[Marslife]

Who is good at tabulation? what is our Post count by slash/8/ blob by backs?

Looks like PSA has accounted for 4 (red 8's) on their pop report:

Marquard, Rube 4 total Grade PSA 1; PSA 3 (2); PSA 5
Follow Through-Red 8

Do you think they will still put a "Red 8" or "Red Slash" on the flips if they graded one now?

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Marslife

Who is good at tabulation? what is our Post count by slash/8/ blob by backs?

Looks like PSA has accounted for 4 (red 8's) on their pop report:

Marquard, Rube 4 total Grade PSA 1; PSA 3 (2); PSA 5
Follow Through-Red 8

Do you think they will still put a "Red 8" or "Red Slash" on the flips if they graded one now?

Hard to say with PSA Cliff. I was told in person at shows by several PSA reps including a couple of higher ups in the back that I asked to speak to that they
will not grade any variation that's not cataloged but they did exactly that with this Marquard.

[Ronnie73]

Originally Posted by Marslife

Who is good at tabulation? what is our Post count by slash/8/ blob by backs?

Looks like PSA has accounted for 4 (red 8's) on their pop report:

Marquard, Rube 4 total Grade PSA 1; PSA 3 (2); PSA 5
Follow Through-Red 8

Do you think they will still put a "Red 8" or "Red Slash" on the flips if they graded one now?

I've been doing my best to count them as they show up. So far I've counted 9 cards with the 8armpit. 5 Piedmont 460-25, and 4 Sweet Caporal 460-25. I haven't been counting the pink dash or the blue blob. I've been waiting for a nice cheap Sweet Caporal in a PSA 4, to go with my Piedmont.

[Ronnie73]

Updated the broken link to my scan. Plus a friendly bump to the top, since my last post killed the thread.

[t206fanatic]

Originally Posted by Marslife

Who is good at tabulation? what is our Post count by slash/8/ blob by backs?

Looks like PSA has accounted for 4 (red 8's) on their pop report:

Marquard, Rube 4 total Grade PSA 1; PSA 3 (2); PSA 5
Follow Through-Red 8

Do you think they will still put a "Red 8" or "Red Slash" on the flips if they graded one now?

I got mine reslabbed last year, and they put the "Red 8" up top

[Leon]

Originally Posted by t206fanatic

I got mine reslabbed last year, and they put the "Red 8" up top

That's cool they gave it props!
.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by t206fanatic

I got mine reslabbed last year, and they put the "Red 8" up top

That's cool they gave it props!
.

[Marslife]

Hey Fellas!

I picked up another red slash Marquard, interestingly enough, same series SC460F30. red slash is in the same spot and same size as my other red slash.

I would trade for a blue blotch if anyone has any interest.

thanks! Cliff


front 1.jpg

front 2.jpg

back.jpg

[Lunker21]

Hey Net54 team... just did a great multi-card trade with a solid dude... he found this on ebay... I love the oddballs... any news on this variation since these entrys? I think its a really cool variation... and only affordable to me in this loved condition... am I reading correctly that this may be #9?

Thanks everyone for tracking oddballs like this!

Cheers,
Craig Martin

[Al C.risafulli]

This was a really frustrating revelation for me, and further evidence that THE HOBBY NEEDS A STANDARD CATALOG, and whichever entity currently owns it and is not publishing it should hand the assets over to the SABR Baseball Card committee so that they can take ownership and resume publishing it. There is currently nowhere to report discoveries like this.

A T206 collector who participates on this board brought this card to LOTG back in 2017, with a number of scans of other examples, and asked if we could help him get the card catalogued, and then sell it for him.

We did a little more research on our own, read Mr. Lemke's writing about it, and then presented all our findings to the Standard Catalog. The Standard Catalog publishers (SCD, at the time) agreed that it was a legit variation and advised me of their plan to begin including it with the 2018 edition of the catalog.

Based on this, PSA agreed to begin recognizing the variation and slabbed the example that we sold (which is linked in one of the posts above).

Of course, the Standard Catalog has not published since 2017, no 2018 version was ever produced, and in the seven years that have elapsed, PSA has not been consistent about slabbing this variation (I know of two examples that were submitted and the variation was not noted, because it was not catalogued).

I wrote about this on our blog one year ago here: https://loveofthegameauctions.com/th...ndard-catalog/

In the meantime, we are about to post about yet another discovery that changes the information in the Standard Catalog. There's nowhere to report these discoveries that dozens of collectors make each year - new errors, variations, new additions to checklists, discoveries about the origins of various sets. There is no longer a single hobby "Bible" that serves as the clearing house for this knowledge, and the hobby is much worse off for it.

Anyway, the "Red 8" is a legit variation.

-Al

[FrankWakefield]

Al is right about an updated Standard Catalog.

I'd like to see an effort somewhere, maybe here, where we could demonstrate some pledge, eventually prepayment, to demonstrate a market exists for a revival of the Standard Catalog.

Obstacles:

is there sufficient demand for a new SC?

who owns rights to the last SC (which would be a starting cornerstone)?

has the cost of printing and distribution of such a voluminous risen to such an extent that the cost of production would be prohibitive?



I'm sure there are more obstacles than these... I want a paper publication, not something online nor on a CD. Some 21st century folk wouldn't want the heavy paper catalog.

Maybe we financially underwrite whoever now "owns" the Standard Catalog to produce a new SC if they are interested. That would be better than buying the rights and then we still don't update and publish because we learn of what obstacles are out there.

Mr. Lemke was a unique gentleman. He and the 21st century were not exactly in step with one another. He had a great ability to focus on details as well as a vast undertaking. And he was a really good guy. We need to find another Bob Lemke. Anyone know someone in the upper echelons of Krause Publishing?

If one is published in the next few years, I'd guess they'll cost between $90 and $120 each...

[Al C.risafulli]

This is something that I actually spent a bunch of time trying to figure out last year. I don't mean to hijack a good thread, and hope this post will keep it on track.

FKW, who owned SCD and the Catalog, declared bankruptcy in 2017. Penguin Random House purchased the book publishing assets of FKW, and Active Interests Media purchased the collectibles magazines. Both publish books and guides on a regular basis that seem to have niche audiences just like our hobby. Nobody seems to know where the Standard Catalog fits, and nobody at either company has responded to me.

Meanwhile, I have spoken with the folks at the SABR Baseball Cards Committee, an organization that already exists and is filled with the type of collectors who devoted time to sending Mr. Lemke updates each year, stands ready to take on this project. As a group they are chock full of researchers, and SABR has a publishing arm that produces outstanding books and guides. They could certainly publish an electronic Catalog that gets updated every year, and a periodic printed book for nerds like me that scour the pages year after year. And most importantly, they've said they'd be thrilled to do it.

It seems silly for them to start from scratch when all the checklists already exist in some sort of electric format. What needs to happen is whichever entity owns the Catalog needs to either resume publishing it, or hand the rights over to SABR.

-Al

[Gorditadogg]

Al, do you have a contact at Penguin and Active? Let me know and I will start contacting them too.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[steve B]

I've thought about doing a catalog for years, one that has a basic listing for a set then detailed info about variations and print defects.
I was thinking doing it as a looseleaf sort of thing so the entire catalog wouldn't have to be bought, just the sections someone needed.

I sort of did a visual catalog of variations in 49 Leaf, and it's an ongoing thing with a lot of images I don't have the rights to.

I should mock up a section or so and see what people think.