PSA Grading really reliable?

[mannequin1]

A few months ago I sent a Willie Mays bottle cap that I expected at least a 3 or 4 and they graded it a "1" which was ridiculous. A month or so I sent it again and this time they graded it a 4. Are certain graders biased?

[Rhotchkiss]

No. PSA sucks, but they are all we got and the industry standard (yay).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by mannequin1

A few months ago I sent a Willie Mays bottle cap that I expected at least a 3 or 4 and they graded it a "1" which was ridiculous. A month or so I sent it again and this time they graded it a 4. Are certain graders biased?

There are probably 10,000 similar tales out there if not an order of magnitude more. Not biased. Just inconsistent/incompetent.

[mannequin1]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There are probably 10,000 similar tales out there if not an order of magnitude more. Not biased. Just inconsistent/incompetent.

Do they owe me for this mistake or will they refund if I can prove it?

[tycobb]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

No. PSA sucks, but they are all we got and the industry standard (yay).

Sadly but true.


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[jchcollins]

PSA has their ups and downs, but at least right now they are wildly inconsistent.


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[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by mannequin1

Do they owe me for this mistake or will they refund if I can prove it?

I would move on and be glad you got the higher grade.

[raulus]

Allow me to introduce you to PSA’s pejorative replacement acronym around these parts:

Please
Submit
Again

[tjisonline]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

No. PSA sucks, but they are all we got and the industry standard (yay).

Please
Submit
Again

Too bad SGC was acquired by them.

PSA wouldn’t be so bad if their graders & reviewers just studied their work own grading definitions.

[perezfan]

Poor at
Spotting
Alteration

Pathetic
Scamming
Amateurs

Sure wish there were more viable options. Or better yet, that the sheeplike hobby wasn't so slavish to TPG.

[Beercan collector]

yikes .. Better than a pinhole , I guess

[campyfan39]

By definition, everything about grading is subjective

It can not ever be "correct" or "accurate"

[Balticfox]

No.

[e107collector]

They totally missed a trim on the very first card they graded. Just happens to be on the most valuable card in the hobby. 😀

[Balticfox]

Did they "miss" it? Or did they know it was trimmed and gave it a high grade anyway because they wanted to launch their company with a high grade on a Honus Wagner card?

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Beercan collector

yikes .. Better than a pinhole , I guess

I would MUCH rather have a nice looking card with a pinhole than those hideos print lines. It amazes me that they allow that crap on a 6. But I see it all the time.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by mannequin1

Do they owe me for this mistake or will they refund if I can prove it?

Sure. Just file a complaint with your credit card company. Then kiss your future submission privileges goodbye and watch your certs get deactivated.

[e107collector]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Did they "miss" it? Or did the know it was trimmed and gave it a high grade anyway because they wanted to launch their company with a high grade on a Honus Wagner card?

This scenario seems more likely

[Beercan collector]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I would MUCH rather have a nice looking card with a pinhole than those hideos print lines. It amazes me that they allow that crap on a 6. But I see it all the time.

100% - The goof is a pinhole automatically drops a card down to grade One , I believe a collector could find a 59 Musial in every grade below 6 that looks better than this “6” .. And be pretty easy

[gunboat82]

Just some examples of the disconnect:

VG 3: VERY GOOD

A PSA VG 3 card reveals some rounding of the corners, though not extreme. Some surface wear will be apparent, along with possible light scuffing or light scratches. Focus may be somewhat off-register and edges may exhibit noticeable wear. Much, but not all, of the card’s original gloss will be lost. Borders may be somewhat yellowed and/or discolored. A crease may be visible. Printing defects are possible. Slight stain may show on obverse and wax staining on reverse may be more prominent. Centering must be 90/10 or better on the front and back.

GOOD 2: GOOD

A PSA Good 2 card’s corners show accelerated rounding and surface wear is starting to become obvious. A good card may have scratching, scuffing, light staining, or chipping of enamel on obverse. There may be several creases. Original gloss may be completely absent. Card may show considerable discoloration. Centering must be 90/10 or better on the front and back.

FR 1.5: FAIR

A PSA Fair 1.5 card’s corners will show extreme wear, possibly affecting framing of the picture. The surface of the card will show advanced stages of wear, including scuffing, scratching, pitting, chipping and staining. The picture will possibly be quite out-of-register and the borders may have become brown and dirty. The card may have one or more heavy creases. In order to achieve a Fair grade, a card must be fully intact. Even though the card may be heavily worn, it cannot achieve this grade if it is missing solid pieces of the card as a result of a major tear, etc. This would include damage such as the removal of the back layer of the card or an entire corner. The centering must be approximately 90/10 or better on the front and back.

[MattyC]

If you asked someone their opinion, and they changed that opinion as many times as you asked (with no new information in hand), how much would you value that opinion— let alone pay for it?

That is grading. Subjective and inconsistent.

Just as flawed, if not more, is the mindset that exalts a high grade sticker when the card beneath does not look the part.

[perezfan]

Thanks for documenting that PSA is a complete joke and the hobby's biggest scam. Perhaps when the sheeple stop feeding them huge sums of money, they'll finally be displaced by something else.

Hope it happens in my lifetime.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Thanks for documenting that PSA is a complete joke and the hobby's biggest scam. Perhaps when the sheeple stop feeding them huge sums of money, they'll finally be displaced by something else.

Hope it happens in my lifetime.

Unlikely, Mark. Twelfth of Never event IMO. They grow stronger and stronger every year.

[bnorth]

They have been very reliable for me. Besides one complete debacle that after 3 tries they still mislabeled my card every time while charging me every BLEEPING time they screwed up. Seriously they have given me better grades on almost every card I have ever sent in than they deserved. They have turned many a $20 card into one that sold for several hundred to a few thousand. I have just been extremely lucky as I have only sent in cards through group submissions or had friends let me add a few cards to their PSA submissions.

[gunboat82]

Originally Posted by bnorth

They have been very reliable for me...

Originally Posted by bnorth

Seriously they have given me better grades on almost every card I have ever sent in than they deserved. They have turned many a $20 card into one that sold for several hundred to a few thousand...

I'm not sure this is a ringing endorsement of their reliability.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by bnorth

They have been very reliable for me. Besides one complete debacle that after 3 tries they still mislabeled my card every time while charging me every BLEEPING time they screwed up. Seriously they have given me better grades on almost every card I have ever sent in than they deserved. They have turned many a $20 card into one that sold for several hundred to a few thousand. I have just been extremely lucky as I have only sent in cards through group submissions or had friends let me add a few cards to their PSA submissions.

You should also probably state the fact that you have only sent cards in for grading with PSA a handful of times at most in recent years. Because there is simply no chance whatsoever that you could hold this opinion otherwise.

[Zach Wheat]

These stories don't really surprise me. IMHO, it seems after their "new" standards came out, cards were consistently undergraded. More recent submissions have been more in line with what I anticipated, but still more strict than the "old" standards. Again, JMHO.

[Snowman]

Unfortunately, PSA has recently started giving high-end submissions to at least two of their newbie bulk vintage graders that have no idea what they're looking at. We're all used to 4s being graded as 2s by the bulk graders who stare at modern cards all day, but rarely did the high-end stuff come back with that much of a delta before. Saddle up folks!

[Kutcher55]

I would argue that PSA’s struggles with consistency is actually a good thing for the knowledgeable collector because it contributes to market inefficiency, which is the best friend of any discerning investor.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Kutcher55

I would argue that PSA’s struggles with consistency is actually a good thing for the knowledgeable collector because it contributes to market inefficiency, which is the best friend of any discerning investor.

I certainly get your point, but this philosophy just assumes that cards NEED to be graded (when in reality, they don't).

[Kutcher55]

I don’t think cards need to be graded. I collect both graded and raw.

[Leon]

LOL...

But to the first question, are PSA reliable graders? PSA isn't a grader; some unknown person is. So, they might be reliable and might not be. Grades are only an opinion at that moment of that grader's mind. It could be a half a grade either way, almost every time. And many times, more than a half grade difference, on the same card (*and maybe by the same grader at a different time.) "Reliable" is sort of subjective.

Originally Posted by Snowman

You should also probably state the fact that you have only sent cards in for grading with PSA a handful of times at most in recent years. Because there is simply no chance whatsoever that you could hold this opinion otherwise.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Leon

LOL...

But to the first question, are PSA reliable graders? PSA isn't a grader; some unknown person is. So, they might be reliable and might not be. Grades are only an opinion at that moment of that grader's mind. It could be a half a grade either way, almost every time. And many times, more than a half grade difference, on the same card (*and maybe by the same grader at a different time.) "Reliable" is sort of subjective.

Oh, they're reliable alright. Reliably inconsistent. Resubmitting the same card 4 different times and getting it back in 4 different grades is... let's go with "informative".

[gregndodgers]

Vintage cards that were once graded near mint 7 by PSA are now 5.5s and 6. Terrible. Consistency is the main problem.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by gregndodgers

Vintage cards that were once graded near mint 7 by PSA are now 5.5s and 6. Terrible. Consistency is the main problem.

It's actually worse than that, unfortunately.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Snowman

It's actually worse than that, unfortunately.

I was going to say the same. Must be really confusing for newer collectors to see cards that have recently been re-slabbed into PSA's modern holders. "Why is there an obvious "3.5" in a slab that says "6"?

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Unfortunately, PSA has recently started giving high-end submissions to at least two of their newbie bulk vintage graders that have no idea what they're looking at. We're all used to 4s being graded as 2s by the bulk graders who stare at modern cards all day, but rarely did the high-end stuff come back with that much of a delta before. Saddle up folks!

I find it irresponsible that PSA would allow newbie graders anywhere near high value pre-war cards, which suggests, given current grading results, they are applying the same grading criteria to pre-war as modern. I am glad I no longer have the frustration that currently arises by their unprofessionalism, as I simply refuse to deal with them. And now that SGC is part of Fanatics, I worry about them going the way of PSA.

[Brent G.]

Like most companies these days, they have people who are good at their jobs and others who suck. I assume they don't fire many people and that there's a lot of turnover due to pay that's not enough for someone to live on in that region of the country. I'd say we'd be horrified to know the actual capability of the average employee -- it's a lot closer to McDonald's drive-thru than someone with a jewelry loop.

I only get autographs authenticated by PSA and grades from SGC. I assume the later will only get worse now that they're under the same overlord.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Yoda

And now that SGC is part of Fanatics, I worry about them going the way of PSA.

SGC is owned by Collectors (PSA), not Fanatics.

[GasHouseGang]

I look forward to AI machine grading that will consistently give the same result time after time and won't be swayed by who submitted the cards. At least I hope it will be transparent and much more consistent than hand grading.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

I look forward to AI machine grading that will consistently give the same result time after time and won't be swayed by who submitted the cards. At least I hope it will be transparent and much more consistent than hand grading.

Where's the incentive to regrade any existing slabbed cards by AI?????? Otherwise I feel the % of unslabbed vintage is small compared to the % already graded.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Otherwise I feel the % of unslabbed vintage is small compared to the % already graded.

I disagree. I believe there are far more raw cards in private collections than you think.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

I disagree. I believe there are far more raw cards in private collections than you think.

irregardless of this opinion...whether true or not...it's going to be a near impossible feat to dethrone/replace PSA...imho.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

I disagree. I believe there are far more raw cards in private collections than you think.

And I agree with you. I can't see going through all the OCD BS. Said it before and I will keep saying it until I am blue in the face - I don't give a hoot in Hell about what someone else's opinion of my cards is. This forum is the graded cards and card grading HQ, but I love it anyhow. Yes, there are many collectors like myself who are in the hobby merely to collect cards, not to stress out over their condition, and not to have their cards enclosed in bulky plastic slabs.