Goldin income verification

[Snapolit1]

Been bidding in their auctions for years, always pay on time, and have even been a consignor. Now they want me to prove income, ability to pay, etc. Must have been something dreamed up by the new owners. Hard pass. If my credit is no good or you have misgivings with my business, despite a 100% pay timely history, I will happily bid elsewhere. Same shit, different AH.

Sending financial records to an auction house. Could you imagine.

[calvindog]

What are you talking about? To be a bidder you meed to prove income? Or to get a much higher bidding limit?

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by calvindog

What are you talking about? To be a bidder you meed to prove income? Or to get a much higher bidding limit?

I feel the same way as the OP. Last I checked you could have up to $10k in total bids at any time before they wanted fund verifications. Not exactly a difficult amount to reach if you're putting in several placeholder bids.

[DeanH3]

Same experience for me as well. I was interested in an item in the last Premiere Auction. I was asked to prove income with bank statements. I've bid in their other auctions, so I was a bit surprised. I believe it's a Premier Auction thing. Yeah, no thanks.

[Casey2296]

Hard Pass on the Goldin "experience" for me.

[prestigecollectibles]

Not sure why my limit is $10,000,000

[doug.goodman]

I guess I'll be bidding via you Robert.

Doug

[Peter_Spaeth]

From the site and I am quoting: Bid limit request of $100K or more require purchase references and financial documentation,

Is that completely unreasonable?

[Rhotchkiss]

I don’t know what the initial bid limit is, but $100k without additional verification certainly sounds reasonable. At the same time, $10k is definitely too low, especially for people with a history.

Frankly, I don’t understand why people get so upset about having to verify ability to pay, especially is no credit card is posted as collateral. It’s nothing personal, just prudent business

[Peter_Spaeth]

Could be reading it wrong but looks like you can get more than 10 and up to 100 with just auction history.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Bid limit request of $100K or more require purchase references and financial documentation,

Is that completely unreasonable?

It's not a $100k threshold though. I had to provide proof of funds to raise mine above $10k as well.

I have an even bigger gripe though. If you want to pay your invoice using your bank account, you'll get a cute little pop-up that says you must agree to giving Goldin access to your bank details including your entire transaction history. LOL

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

It's not a $100k threshold though. I had to provide proof of funds to raise mine above $10k as well.

I have an even bigger gripe though. If you want to pay your invoice using your bank account, you'll get a cute little pop-up that says you must agree to giving Goldin access to your bank details including your entire transaction history. LOL

I cut and paste that from the site, was not my interpretation.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I don’t know what the initial bid limit is, but $100k without additional verification certainly sounds reasonable. At the same time, $10k is definitely too low, especially for people with a history.

Frankly, I don’t understand why people get so upset about having to verify ability to pay, especially is no credit card is posted as collateral. It’s nothing personal, just prudent business

100k yes, 10k no. As with many things in life people get pissed when their integrity is questioned. Old school way of thinking but if Goldins baseline is a couple of no pays and they make old school collectors uncomfortable with "access" etc. that's their decision, insulting folks < zero tolerance, it's just a mathematical equation overlayed on emotion.

[calvindog]

It’s annoying for sure. But so many people who win lots don’t have the cash to pay for them and instead send in cards for collateral until they’re sold in the next auction. I can see both sides if the auction house doesn’t have a history with you.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

100k yes, 10k no. As with many things in life people get pissed when their integrity is questioned. Old school way of thinking but if Goldins baseline is a couple of no pays and they make old school collectors uncomfortable with "access" etc. that's their decision, insulting folks < zero tolerance, it's just a mathematical equation overlayed on emotion.

Nobody is questioning your integrity, you're just choosing to take it personally. And best I can tell they aren't insisting on financial records at 10K, only at 100K.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Nobody is questioning your integrity, you're just choosing to take it personally. And best I can tell they aren't insisting on financial records at 10K, only at 100K.

Refer to post #3 in this thread.
Of course I take it personally, that's why they call it personal integrity. I'm just a small time collector, I think the most I ever spent in one auction is 30k and that's far and above my usual. REA never asked for my ability to pay, nor does Heritage, LOTG, or any of the other pre war auction houses. I don't care to be vetted by Goldin because a bunch of modern collectors scammed them. I'll pass.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Refer to post #3 in this thread.
Of course I take it personally, that's why they call it personal integrity. I'm just a small time collector, I think the most I ever spent in one auction is 30k and that's far and above my usual. REA never asked for my ability to pay, nor does Heritage, LOTG, or any of the other pre war auction houses. I don't care to be vetted by Goldin because a bunch of modern collectors scammed them. I'll pass.

I don't understand taking it personally. It's just a different business model, there is nothing personal about it. Do you take it personally if you apply for a loan or mortgage or credit card and they ask for financial information or credit scores? Or are baseball cards supposed to be some different thing because it's just among friends?

[pawpawdiv9]

It’s not that hard
I did it over a year ago
There’s a old thread about the premiere auction
I questioned it myself
But gave limited info
I explained my experience
Now this was Pwcc which is now Fanatics
I also bid in Goldin and not had a issue
Not had this problem come up

[Snapolit1]

Maybe I will ask the people who run AHs to send me their financial statements before I bid.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't understand taking it personally. It's just a different business model, there is nothing personal about it. Do you take it personally if you apply for a loan or mortgage or credit card and they ask for financial information or credit scores? Or are baseball cards supposed to be some different thing because it's just among friends?

Maybe you look at someone’s track record dealing with you before you ask them to provide their bank statements to you to review. Would that make more sense? If I bought 15-20 cars from the same place, and gave them business in the past, yeah I would prob be upset if I walked in and they acted like they had no idea who I was.

[OhioLawyerF5]

If you take it as a personal attack on your integrity that an auction house, who doesn't know you from Adam, wants to verify your ability to pay before using their service, the problem is not with the auction house, it's with your fragile emotional state.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Maybe you look at someone’s track record dealing with you before you ask them to provide their bank statements to you to review. Would that make more sense? If I bought 15-20 cars from the same place, and gave them business in the past, yeah I would prob be upset if I walked in and they acted like they had no idea who I was.

A car dealership is still verifying your creditworthiness, even if you've bought 15 cars in the past. Am I living in a bizarro world in this thread? I can't believe how sensitive people are.

If you don't like it, take your business elsewhere, but we need to stop pretending it's an unreasonable business practice.

[parkplace33]

I get it, but most collectors would walk through fire to bid on a card they want.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

A car dealership is still verifying your creditworthiness, even if you've bought 15 cars in the past. Am I living in a bizarro world in this thread? I can't believe how sensitive people are.

If you don't like it, take your business elsewhere, but we need to stop pretending it's an unreasonable business practice.

I think it’s unreasonable and plan to.

I have an aversion showing strangers my 401k statement. Would Ken send his to me you think? For an $11,000 credit line?

[calvindog]

I thought the default credit limit is 10K? Other than Doug who is stuck at $10. ))))

[Snapolit1]

Yes it’s 10k, I tried to bid a few ticks above that and was not able to.

I feel the same way about income verification as I do about workplace drug testing …. If you have no basis to suspect it’s a problem….. fuck off.

Realize we have zero privacy left in this country at this point but I will make believe we still do.

[Snapolit1]

And if you want to run a credit check on me, knock yourself out. That’s your issue, not mine.

My equifax statement doesn’t list my assets. It lists my credit history.

[Fred]

How does someone know if they hit their bid limit? I guess if you have to ask, you'll never know until you hit your limit, unless Goldin prevents you from bidding until "verifying your ability to pay" before an auction begins (assuming you haven't done it already).

Wouldn't it suck if you didn't know your bid limit and were bidding on an item and found out in the extended bidding that you reached your limit and could no longer bid on an item.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Yes it’s 10k, I tried to bid a few ticks above that and was not able to.

I feel the same way about income verification as I do about workplace drug testing …. If you have no basis to suspect it’s a problem….. fuck off.

Realize we have zero privacy left in this country at this point but I will make believe we still do.

It has nothing to do with having privacy. You can have all the privacy you want. But you can't expect anything from someone else and not have to give some of it up. THAT is unreasonable. You don't want to take a drug test? Not a problem. But a company also has the right not to employ you. They will survive without you. You don't want to verify income to bid with a particular auction house? Great, take your business elsewhere.

The problem isn't our losing our privacy, it's everyone's sense of entitlement thinking they get to make the rules in how others do business.

Verifying income for an auction house is one of the most reasonable things I can think of for them to remove one of the biggest problems an auction house faces. The fact that it literally offends people tells me all I need to know about how entitled our society has become. We no longer just take our business elsewhere, we think we should tell people what is reasonable for their business to do, as if they hired you for your opinion.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

It has nothing to do with having privacy. You can have all the privacy you want. But you can't expect anything from someone else and not have to give some of it up. THAT is unreasonable. You don't want to take a drug test? Not a problem. But a company also has the right not to employ you. They will survive without you. You don't want to verify income to bid with a particular auction house? Great, take your business elsewhere.

The problem isn't our losing our privacy, it's everyone's sense of entitlement thinking they get to make the rules in how others do business.

Verifying income for an auction house is one of the most reasonable things I can think of for them to remove one of the biggest problems an auction house faces. The fact that it literally offends people tells me all I need to know about how entitled our society has become. We no longer just take our business elsewhere, we think we should tell people what is reasonable for their business to do, as if they hired you for your opinion.

+1 agree

[steve B]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

If you take it as a personal attack on your integrity that an auction house, who doesn't know you from Adam, wants to verify your ability to pay before using their service, the problem is not with the auction house, it's with your fragile emotional state.

I read it as the opposite situation. An auction house he has a proven track record with going back several years. They do know him, or should. Being denied a bit extra in that situation seems unreasonable.

My one big auction experience was in a different hobby, had to apply for permission to bid at all. Gave a couple hobby references, and had to answer a couple questions about what I planned on bidding for. Very modest plan, pretty much the two lowest estimated items they had plus a slightly more expensive lot as a backup plan.
Approved, with no limit mentioned.
Totally blown out of all three..... Ah well.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Fred

How does someone know if they hit their bid limit? I guess if you have to ask, you'll never know until you hit your limit, unless Goldin prevents you from bidding until "verifying your ability to pay" before an auction begins (assuming you haven't done it already).

Wouldn't it suck if you didn't know your bid limit and were bidding on an item and found out in the extended bidding that you reached your limit and could no longer bid on an item.

If you look under my account or the equivalent it shows you. If you haven't asked to raise it, it's 10.

[FrankWakefield]

I'd be annoyed with a business where I'd always paid in a timely manner, and then one day they want proof of financial wherewithal. But that's not what started this thread.

As a consignor, I recall waiting a few weeks for payment; which annoyed me. The high bidder hadn't paid yet, I got the feeling he was a whale and he didn't want to pay until his funds had stayed in some account until an interest payment had been paid. And the auction house didn't want to pressure him for payment because they didn't want to lose his as a future bidder.

And then there's the auction house that was taking bids on cards that had recently been stolen without timely disclosure about the cards being gone. So AH's can want financial disclosure on bidders, but bidders don't get proof that the AH really had the cards.

I can see that if I had a high value card out there, I'd be annoyed if they accepted a huge bid from an unknown bidder early in an auction driven up by another colluding bidder that discouraged other bidders from bidding, then the two colluders don't pay, and my card goes unsold.

All in all, I don't see a bright line rule that would protect buyers from AH's, AH's from buyers, consignors from buyers, consignors from AH's.... tis a mess.

[frankbmd]

Goldin, oh Goldin

He'll never know how much cash I'm holdin'.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Yes it’s 10k, I tried to bid a few ticks above that and was not able to.

I feel the same way about income verification as I do about workplace drug testing …. If you have no basis to suspect it’s a problem….. fuck off.

Realize we have zero privacy left in this country at this point but I will make believe we still do.

Should a mortgage lender inquire as to income and assets or is that insulting too?

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Fred

Wouldn't it suck if you didn't know your bid limit and were bidding on an item and found out in the extended bidding that you reached your limit and could no longer bid on an item.

Several years ago, Christie's had an auction with some W600s I wanted, specifically and most importantly was a Type 1 Plank, but I also wanted the Type 2 Cy Young and the Type 3 Bender. I signed up for Christie's and they gave me an initial credit limit that was insufficient to buy all 3. I called there and explained that I wanted all 3, but hade to have the Plank, which, alone, certain to go for more than my initial limit. They had me provide some financial info, which I did, and I was told my limit was increased. I called 3 days before the auction to confirm my limit had been increased and I was told it was.

This auction was a traditional format where lots come up and close one by one after one another.

Auction day comes and first up is the Bender, which I win. Next up is the Cy Young, which I win. Then comes the Plank, and I am going back and forth until I get to $50k+/- at which point it says I have exceeded my credit limit. I flipped out!!! Not only had they not increased my limit, but now in the moment I am frozen out of the card I really wanted.

I ended up getting a Plank elsewhere. Needless to say, I do not bid in Christie's auctions anymore.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Should a mortgage lender inquire as to income and assets or is that insulting too?

I have purchased 4 homes. In not one case was I asked for a copy of my investment account reports.

And none of those homes cost $11,000.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I have purchased 4 homes. In not one case was I asked for a copy of my investment account reports.

And none of those homes cost $11,000.

Did you specifically ask for an $11k limit at Goldin? And if you truly did, did they specifically ask for your investment accounts?

I've purchased several homes as well. For non-residential houses( i.e. investment properties), I've absolutely had them verify total wealth. I think you are just complaining to complain.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I have purchased 4 homes. In not one case was I asked for a copy of my investment account reports.

And none of those homes cost $11,000.

Would you have taken it personally and walked away if you had been asked?

In any case, surely you were asked for some financial information, no?

[gabrinus]

I agree with the guys on here who take this personal especially the ones who have bid on Goldin auctions many times before...it's like a bank you have done business with for many years suddenly wanting to put a hold on a deposit even though you have never written a bad check or deposited a bad one...of course it's personal if you conduct yourself with integrity...unfortunately it seems to be too common today...Jerry

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by gabrinus

I agree with the guys on here who take this personal especially the ones who have bid on Goldin auctions many times before...it's like a bank you have done business with for many years suddenly wanting to put a hold on a deposit even though you have never written a bad check or deposited a bad one...of course it's personal if you conduct yourself with integrity...unfortunately it seems to be too common today...Jerry

But up to 100K, the site specifically says you can get an increase based on bidding history.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by gabrinus

I agree with the guys on here who take this personal especially the ones who have bid on Goldin auctions many times before...it's like a bank you have done business with for many years suddenly wanting to put a hold on a deposit even though you have never written a bad check or deposited a bad one...of course it's personal if you conduct yourself with integrity...unfortunately it seems to be too common today...Jerry

No reason to take that situation personally either. You people are so sensitive. Things change, economic landscapes change, businesses change, as does their corporate risk tolerance. Life's too short to take it personally when policies change that affect everyone equally. That is, by definition, NOT personal. It's not like they are only asking a specific long-time customer for financial info. :doh:

[raulus]

Seems like there's a missing middle ground here.

I'm guessing that a big part of the issue is probably just the challenge of being flexible and specific for the AH as it assesses its buyers/bidders, rather than painting with a wide brush. I suspect some recent mandate came down from on high at this AH, possibly because the AH was burned by someone, it cost the AH in reputation and probably lost commission, and now it's time to tighten things up to avoid a similar problem going forward.

Certainly every AH can and should verify that their bidders are capable of honoring their bids. How they go about that process, however, doesn't have to require that they need access to everything about me.

In situations where we have an existing relationship, particularly one where I've been a solid customer for many years, it shouldn't be that difficult for the AH to get comfortable with my credit without the need for additional support. Unless, of course, I'm looking to substantially expand my bidding patterns from 4 figures to 6 figures, in which case the AH has every right to ask for some documentation showing that I can handle that new and substantially elevated level of bidding.

And if I don't like the process from the AH, then I have every right to walk away. As an added bonus, if I'm feeling particularly vexed by the entire situation, then I might just come here and broadcast to the world my utter dissatisfaction with the whole business.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

No reason to take that situation personally either. You people are so sensitive. Things change, economic landscapes change, businesses change, as does their corporate risk tolerance. Life's too short to take it personally when policies change that affect everyone equally. That is, by definition, NOT personal. It's not like they are only asking a specific long-time customer for financial info. :doh:

All true, but I can see how it can be taken personally too. So I see Steve's (Hi Steve) point. Been there, done that many times. But it really isn't personal. Kind of like a guy cutting you off in traffic. Be pissed sure, but it wasn't personal.

I don't know if it's the case, but some of this could be that Ebay owns Goldin Auctions now, as of May 2024.

After maneuvering through many hours of trying to get set up as a vendor for them, I told them I didn't want to do it. I would rather lose a good customer, whom I enjoy dealing with, than take anymore of that pain. It was that crazy. The shit to equity ratio just wasn't worth it. Then they got someone in management and worked out a solution. But it was quite mentally painful.
And this was in the last 6 months. So, it could be that this is Ebay's norm? I don't know for a fact, by any means. It's just a guess base on what I just went through.

What a great first HUGE vintage auction they had. Can't wait for the next. one. How can they top it? (for a different thread)
.

[Peter_Spaeth]

AH to consignor: sorry, your card didn't get paid for, we can return it to you or run it again.

Consignor to AH: didn't you make sure the guy could afford to pay?

AH to consignor: Oh no, we're old school we would never insult someone by asking them for financial information.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

AH to consignor: sorry, your card didn't get paid for, we can return it to you or run it again.

Consignor to AH: didn't you make sure the guy could afford to pay?

AH to consignor: Oh no, we're old school we would never insult someone by asking them for financial information.

You'll be happy to hear that this happened to me a few times previously. Since it was with your favorite now-defunct AH, you'll be even more delighted.

Luckily, the last time it happened, the non-paying bidder got burned, because it was August 2020, and the item turned right back around and sold for 20% more in the next month's auction.

[samosa4u]

Just send Goldin a photo of yourself holding up an East Coast gang sign and a thick roll of Benjamins in the other hand while wearing thick gold chainz and you'll get approved immediately!

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by raulus

Seems like there's a missing middle ground here.

I'm guessing that a big part of the issue is probably just the challenge of being flexible and specific for the AH as it assesses its buyers/bidders, rather than painting with a wide brush. I suspect some recent mandate came down from on high at this AH, possibly because the AH was burned by someone, it cost the AH in reputation and probably lost commission, and now it's time to tighten things up to avoid a similar problem going forward.

Certainly every AH can and should verify that their bidders are capable of honoring their bids. How they go about that process, however, doesn't have to require that they need access to everything about me.

In situations where we have an existing relationship, particularly one where I've been a solid customer for many years, it shouldn't be that difficult for the AH to get comfortable with my credit without the need for additional support. Unless, of course, I'm looking to substantially expand my bidding patterns from 4 figures to 6 figures, in which case the AH has every right to ask for some documentation showing that I can handle that new and substantially elevated level of bidding.

And if I don't like the process from the AH, then I have every right to walk away. As an added bonus, if I'm feeling particularly vexed by the entire situation, then I might just come here and broadcast to the world my utter dissatisfaction with the whole business.

This times 100 percent. and I expect the other major auctions to follow suit in short order.

[calvindog]

As I said above, I was previously unaware until recently as to how many winning bidders pay for their winnings with cards they then consign for future auctions, after winning their lots. Getting basically interest-free loans from the auction houses. So I can better understand the houses' concern that winning bidders can't pay for their lots.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

This times 100 percent. and I expect the other major auctions to follow suit in short order.

I'm pretty sure it's already the norm with high-end art auctions. It's just new for the sports card crowd, so they take offense.