Relief Pitcher Trivia

[Mark17]

Name the reliever, who's in the HOF, who saved 30+ games only twice in his career, and never as many as 40. He also had fewer than 115 wins.

[bk400]

Wow, this is a tough one. I'm going with Bruce Sutter.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by bk400

Wow, this is a tough one. I'm going with Bruce Sutter.

Bruce topped 30 4 times and saved 45 in 184.

[cgjackson222]

Yeah, I don't know either. Was thinking Gossage, but he's probably not right.

[Cliff Bowman]

Rollie Fingers?

[Mark17]

Gossage is a good guess. He was only 30+ saves twice but did have 124 wins. Fingers is the guy.

It makes me re-think how guys like Fingers and Gossage make the Hall. So many fewer IP than your average HOF starter.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Gossage is a good guess. He was only 30+ saves twice but did have 124 wins. Fingers is the guy.

It makes me re-think how guys like Fingers and Gossage make the Hall. So many fewer IP than your average HOF starter.

I'm not sure why you would compare IP for a reliever to IP for a starter.

Fingers pitched back when closers (if they were called that back then) were used for multiple innings and didn't only come in when it was a save situation. He pitched in 944 games (907 in relief) and finished 709 of them and had 341 saves. He also pitched 1701 innings so close to 2 innings per appearance.

For comparison, Mariano Rivera pitched in 1115 games (1105 in relief) and finished 952, but he only had 1283 innings so rarely pitched more than 1 inning during an appearance.

Trevor Hoffman pitched in 1035 games (all in relief) and only had 1089 innings.

I don't think you can really compare how relievers were used back in the 70s and 80s with the relievers who pitched when the modern closer role was established.

[Cliff Bowman]

Hoyt Wilhelm and Rollie Fingers both popped in my head immediately but I know Wilhelm was an occasional starter and probably has way more than 114 wins. ETA this surprised me, Fingers and Gossage each started 37 games in their careers but they are both considered relievers/closers.

[packs]

It's really hard to be an elite closer for a long period of time. There are very few of them. Fingers spent 17 seasons in the league and only really had two bad seasons. That's not the norm for closers today even though they pitch so many less innings.

I also think Hoyt Wilhelm is one of the most criminally underrated players of all time. The one year they took him off the leash and let him start he led the league in ERA and went right back to the bullpen. I think he might also be the only pitcher to win an ERA title without starting a game. He didn't start his career until he was 29 and he still managed to pitch in 21 seasons.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

It's really hard to be an elite closer for a long period of time. There are very few of them. Fingers spent 17 seasons in the league and only really had two bad seasons. That's not the norm for closers today even though they pitch so many less innings.

I also think Hoyt Wilhelm is one of the most criminally underrated players of all time. The one year they took him off the leash and let him start he led the league in ERA and went right back to the bullpen. I think he might also be the only pitcher to win an ERA title without starting a game. He didn't start his career until he was 29 and he still managed to pitch in 21 seasons.

If memory serves, he hit a home run in his first AB and never hit another.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by jayshum

I'm not sure why you would compare IP for a reliever to IP for a starter.

Fingers pitched back when closers (if they were called that back then) were used for multiple innings and didn't only come in when it was a save situation. He pitched in 944 games (907 in relief) and finished 709 of them and had 341 saves. He also pitched 1701 innings so close to 2 innings per appearance.

For comparison, Mariano Rivera pitched in 1115 games (1105 in relief) and finished 952, but he only had 1283 innings so rarely pitched more than 1 inning during an appearance.

Trevor Hoffman pitched in 1035 games (all in relief) and only had 1089 innings.

I don't think you can really compare how relievers were used back in the 70s and 80s with the relievers who pitched when the modern closer role was established.

I don't see why a couple IP every other day is better than an 8 inning start every 4th or 5th day.

Here's a comparison between Fingers and a guy not even close to being a HOFer - Mel Stottlemyer:

Wins/Losses: Rollie (114-118) Mel (164-139)
Innings Pitched: Rollie (1701.1), Mel (2661.1)
ERA: Rollie (2.90), Mel (2.97)

Rollie was pitching in his prime on 3 World Series champions.

Mel was on the Yankees 1964 WS team and as a rookie started 3 of the WS games. Otherwise, he was on the Yankees during their dismal Horace Clarke era.

I have never subscribed to the notion the 9th inning is so much more difficult/important than the 3rd or 4th inning. So, to me, saves don't matter much. If we credit Rollie for throwing a clean 9th, we should give Mel the same credit for all the clean innings he threw.

Both were quality pitchers and valuable to their teams. Just saying, Mel gave 50% more quality innings.