Autograph opinion - what do I do next?

[effe]

I took a few days to decide whether I wanted to pose this question here, but here goes. I recently won a football at auction that I had been looking for for quite some time, a nice clean Ray Nitschke silver paint pen signed football at a decent price. The ball arrived and was as nice as I had hoped, only it wouldn't hold air. I decide to send off to a company to have a new bladder installed. I had used this company before and was very happy with the job he had done. This time though the ball came back much darker and the autograph was a dull gray and ink was missing (see pictures below). I emailed him about it and he stated that when he does a bladder replacement he also "conditions" the leather which I assume is what damaged the autograph. He stated it hasn't happened to him in the 20 years he has been restoring balls which I have no reason to doubt. This process wasn't noticeable on the first ball I had him replace the bladder on as it already had a much darker patina. I also went back a reread all the email exchanges we had and at no time did he state he was also "conditioning" the balls.
So my question is, where do I go from here? I spent the last week with the ball on the shelf trying to decide whether I can be happy with it as it sits now and I've decided I can't. Every time I look at it I get the same feeling I got when I broke a rare Kail statue a few years back. So far the company I sent it to hasn't offered any compensation, nor have I asked for any. I'd prefer the ball be replaced but the comparable ones that are out there carry a price tag a lot higher than I paid. If I'm being overly picky feel free to call me out. Otherwise I could use some suggestions. I haven't looked over my CIS policy yet either so I don't know if filing a claim would be an option.

[Hxcmilkshake]

Well the sigs are definitely different so that's not nit picky but what I don't know if it's assumed with "bladder installations" that it could affect the signature...if not then he should've advised you before he shipped it back there was a problem. Also sounds like he didn't think it could happen but it did so based on all that I would think you're entitled to something.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[Huck]

I just did a quick search using the words "football bladder repair" - I assumed you did not use Wilson so I moved on. I clicked on the first mom and pop outfit and on the front page of the website was the following -

"Why not send it into us for repair and revitalization? We'll replace the old bladder with a new Butyl Rubber bladder and re-lace it with genuine rubberized nylon football lace. We'll also lightly recondition the leather before returning it to you."

Check to see if the process is stated on the website. If the process in stated on the website, I think you are eating this one. At any time during the exchange of email messages did you state "DO NOT TOUCH THE AUTOGRAPH"? Frankly, I don't think the second ball is bad. Ray, died in 1998, so I would expect the football to have a bit of a frozen tundra patina. However, if you don't like it, it is like having a stain on your shirt that no one will notice but you know the stain is there. Common sense should dictate that one should not rub a conditioning ointment on an autograph, however the artisan replaces bladders he/she is not an autograph expert.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on television.

[effe]

Thanks for the response. As far as I can tell he has no website. He has an Ebay account and uses a business name as his Paypal account. I found him via a recommendation. At no point in our exchange did he mention the added service other than saying what he did was "restoration". Maybe I should have asked what he meant by that but I had no reason to believe he intended to do anything other than what I had requested. I can only guess this is the first time he "conditioned" a ball with silver paint pen as I expect he wouldn't have done it more than once.

I agree it doesn't look that bad. Heck, if I had first seen it in its current state I may have bought it if the price was right. But at one point it was the nicest version I had seen and I can't forget that which is really what is keeping from me enjoying it in my collection.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

In two decades of work experience, he has never had occasion to rebladdificate a ball signed in silver? Forgive me if I'm dubious.

If it is indeed his first time experiencing this, he should be very open to offering you something (and something more than a refund for his work).

It's basic knowledge that applying liquid to ink can often meet with disastrous results. It's his business to know this. While signed balls may not be the majority of what he restores, you had better believe he has had his hands on a ton of them in 20 years. Even if he has a website with properly stated verbiage, I really feel he would only get off the hook if there is any sort of fine print on a submission form which you signed.

On the flipside, I do feel that it's the customer's responsibility to ask a lot of questions in addition to the restorer's obligation to verbally state or re-state if something potentially hazardous was being used in any process.

[rand1com]

Autograph still looks good.

I know of some who replace the bladder and specify they cannot be responsible for any autograph problems as their service is to replace a bladder.

Perhaps they should have contacted you before replacing it stating they could not be responsible for the integrity of the autograph upon completion.

I would just eat it if it was me.

[JollyElm]

Take it for what it's worth, but in the non-close-up pics, it still looks pretty sweet and very 'natural.' We collectors are a bit nutty (wait, only a bit???), so maybe it's always going to bother you, but for me the difference between the before and after doesn't seem bad enough to make it worth it to go through all of the hassles that are sure to come if you fight it. Just one guy's opinion.

Good luck with it!!

[Duluth Eskimo]

I sent some balls to a guy to re-bladder and I "feel" like one ball was damaged a little too. Why in the hell would you "condition" the leather on a signed ball. Just don't inflate to max inflation if you're worried about the condition of the material, just be careful. I'm curious who you used, send me a PM if you want to discuss.

[perezfan]

My thoughts....

1. He definitely should have consulted with you and asked if you wanted the "re-conditioning". I have used a company called Hammer Sports Relics for replacement bladders.... probably on 3-4 occasions. Steve covered two things very clearly...

A. If the original lacing snaps, he would have to use replacement laces to seal it back up (fortunately this never happened).

B. He asked if I wanted the footballs to be conditioned. I said yes to all, except for an autographed Ball from the 1950s. I did not want any liquid or other substance touching the autos.

2. If your person never even asked you about the reconditioning, he should be held responsible for the negative result. This process should not be done automatically... especially on a signed ball. It's almost akin to shellacking a baseball (but not quite as drastic, I suppose). Regardless, I would negotiate a solution with him, if you are not satisfied.

3. The lighting looks a bit different in the two pics you provided. Looks like maybe flash was used for the first pic, and no flash on the other. So it's tough to determine the actual difference. I think the ball still looks nice, despite the conditioning. But if you are not happy, I would seek some form of compensation.

Bottom line.... he should have asked exactly what you wanted done, and made it clear what his process was. Perhaps you did use Hammer Sports Relics, as you'd mentioned that this guy had a presence on eBay. If that's the case, I don't know why he'd fail to ask you about the conditioning aspect, and seems he is culpable as a result. The level of compensation you seek is up to you.

Hope this helps.

[effe]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

I sent some balls to a guy to re-bladder and I "feel" like one ball was damaged a little too. Why in the hell would you "condition" the leather on a signed ball. Just don't inflate to max inflation if you're worried about the condition of the material, just be careful. I'm curious who you used, send me a PM if you want to discuss.

PM sent

[effe]

So I made the decision to reach out to this individual to see if we could work out some mutually agreeable compensation for the damage his "conditioning" did to the autograph. This was on June 22nd. After a week of no receiving response I tried again, still nothing. In the mean time I noticed he had listed auctions on Ebay so I assumed he must be reading the emails I've sent. I sent one final email on the 3rd which also has went unanswered.

At this point I see no reason to continue withholding this individual's name, it is Steve Hill of North Canton, OH, and his Ebay id is hammersportsrelics. I also want to make sure I state here that I hold no ill will to those who recommended him. If you had no problems you likely would have had no reason to have concerns about how he ran his business. In fact I was quite happy with the job he did with the first ball I sent him. That is why I was comfortable giving him my repeat business. Unfortunately it seems I was the guy that drew the short straw this time and actually had an issue with job he had done. Yes I should maybe have asked more questions up front but that is hindsight now. I guess I would have expected someone who had been doing this as long as he had to always err on the side of caution.

At this point I've started the search for a new ball and will share it here on the new pick-ups thread when I find one. Hopefully the hit I take when selling this one won't be too severe a lesson learned.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by effe

PM sent

Never got your message. Sorry to hear you're not getting any response, but to add any type of "lube" to the ball for conditioning when the ball is signed seems like the wrong move. Clearly there is damage to the signature. Any chemical is likely to remove paint pen or sharpie and it appears it did on the raised parts of the signature. BTW, this was not the person I used.