1958 topps Roger maris Wrong back!

[AP34]

I just purchased this over the weekend. I did research and could not find another one. Has anyone seen one or know of other similar RC wrong backs?

I like maris and tend to keep buying them. Not for sale at the moment just curious and this is the page to go to for the hard questions.

[raulus]

Same concept, different issue. Helpfully, someone has attempted to make some corrections by hand on the back.

[Cliff Bowman]

Is the back of the ‘58 Maris upside down (opposite direction than normal ‘58s)?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

Is the back of the ‘58 Maris upside down (opposite direction than normal ‘58s)?

It does look to be upside down.

Wrongbacks are kinda rare but not super rare. Prices can be all over the place. Most see them as garbage you couldn't give them. Then there are the weirdos like myself and a few others that will actually pay a premium for them.

[Lucas00]

Love it, I'd say the value should be around the same as a high grade equivalent standard rookie maybe an sgc/psa 6 or 7.

[AP34]

Thanks for the info! Happy hunting all!

[Kutcher55]

The fact that the back is a HOFer definitely ratchets up the cool factor. Can't be many of these around.

[Kutcher55]

Maybe get it reslabbed by SGC, but have them call it a 1958 Early Wynn with a Maris front?

Actually scratch that. Would probably hurt the value.

[Cliff Bowman]

Another member here, Kevin, and I rebuild '50s and '60s Topps production sheets that aren't currently known. We just very recently reconstructed three missing rows from a partial 1958 Topps 1st Series sheet and Maris was one of those 33 missing cards, The problem is we have Maris in the fourth column of one of those three previously missing rows and Wynn is in the tenth column of an already known row, that doesn't work with your card if it is a wrong back because if the entire back of the sheet was printed upside down like the vast majority of wrong backs are then Maris would line up with the eighth card of another row, not the tenth like Wynn is. I believe this Maris wrong back is actually a very well cut card from a Salesman Sample 3 card panel and was purposely printed with a Wynn back like this Salesman Sample 3 card panel. Otherwise we have a mistake in our 3 row reconstruction.

[AP34]

Oh wow that’s interesting, equally cool in my opinion. Any leads you can give me for 1958 salesman sample information?? Thanks for your info and for your hobby research! It always blows my mind the level of knowledge about obscure items on these boards.

[Kevvyg1026]

I am aware of the following 1958 salesman samples but unfortunately, I don't know the back card for most of them.

The samples I know are:
Ennis/Hoefft/Richardson, back = Kaline
Specer/Jackson/Klaus
Neeman/Pierce/Zimmer back = Kaline
Jackson/Klaus/Busby
Drott/Strickland/Kell
Drysdale (probably Drysdale/Lamdis/Mossi)
Aaron & Thompson (probably Aaron/Thompson/Snider)
Porter & Barclay (probably Porter/Barclay/Sisler)
Gernert & Nuxhall

[AP34]

Interesting, so no known maris! It just gets more interesting. Thanks for the info, looks like I’ll be diving into more research

[Cliff Bowman]

The Maris is technically a wrong back, there is no arguing that, but I believe it is also part of a 3 card Salesman Sample panel which in my mind makes it cooler and probably more valuable.

[steve B]

Is the 47 written on under the red ink? It's hard to tell from scans, but it appears to be.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by steve B

Is the 47 written on under the red ink? It's hard to tell from scans, but it appears to be.

I thought the same thing but I refrained from mentioning it, I have blown it up and the 47 appears printed and not drawn in to me.

[AP34]

I do not have it in hand yet, here is a zoomed in picture hopefully this helps.

It definitely looks like the “47” is under the “100”.

[Kevvyg1026]

does it appear that the 47 is under the red #100?

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Kevvyg1026

does it appear that the 47 is under the red #100?

It does to me, and I also think the 47 is printed and not drawn on.

[AP34]

This just keeps getting more strange

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by AP34

This just keeps getting more strange

You wouldn’t happen to have a black light, would you? It would be interesting to put a black light on the 47/100 once you get it.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

You wouldn’t happen to have a black light, would you? It would be interesting to put a black light on the 47/100 once you get it.

A halogen light works great with black ink. It is kinda like colored ink with a black light. Usually added black ink will have a greyish look instead of black like real printers ink.

[JollyElm]

Gotta play Devil's advocate here.

Although the "47" seems to be under the "100" at first glance, I dare say it's probably an optical illusion. A magic marker written on top of the red ink would look like that, because the red ink is a bit 'slippery' (for lack of a better word) and the black wouldn't fully cover it. Another thing, if the black was truly under the red, why does the black show through it? That wouldn't happen so easily to a red so bold and thick. Plus, the "47" exhibits the typical 'bleeding' of magic marker writing on non-glossy cardboard.

IMG_3150.jpg

[Zach Wheat]

Either way, it is a very cool card

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Gotta play Devil's advocate here.

Although the "47" seems to be under the "100" on first glance, I dare say it's probably an optical illusion. A magic marker written on top of the red ink would look like that, because the red ink is a bit 'slippery' (for lack of a better word) and the black wouldn't fully cover it. Another thing, if the black was truly under the red, why does the black show through it? That wouldn't happen so easily to a red so bold and thick. Plus, the "47" exhibits the typical 'bleeding' of magic marker writing on non-glossy cardboard.

Attachment 616752

Yeah, I think you’re right, it’s just a magic marker number someone applied later on. I also still believe it is a well cut Salesman Sample card, I can’t think of any other explanation for a fourth column Maris front to have a tenth column Wynn back.

[AP34]

Thanks for all of your knowledge. Will hit it with a black light when it comes in and report back my findings. Either way I’m happy with my purchase and it’s a cool unique 1 of a kind maris that cost me PSA 5 money.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Gotta play Devil's advocate here.

Although the "47" seems to be under the "100" at first glance, I dare say it's probably an optical illusion. A magic marker written on top of the red ink would look like that, because the red ink is a bit 'slippery' (for lack of a better word) and the black wouldn't fully cover it. Another thing, if the black was truly under the red, why does the black show through it? That wouldn't happen so easily to a red so bold and thick. Plus, the "47" exhibits the typical 'bleeding' of magic marker writing on non-glossy cardboard.

Attachment 616752

All that is why I asked, it's much easier to tell in hand. Some stuff is more visible in scans, what ink is on top of what other ink isn't.

The only thing I don't really agree with is that black under red wouldn't show through. Topps often used inks that weren't all that opaque.
The the typical order is to have black ink last Because it readily covers other colors. Here you can see off to the left how some covered red shows through the black. If they were reversed, we would see that too. (find a 1981 fleer star sticker that's light blue, and you'll see what I mean. All of mine have the light blue over the black.)

It's almost certainly marker, but looked a little odd.

[AP34]

I seen this on eBay. If my wrong back is actually a salesmen sample as I was told in this post. Is it possible to have Maris samples with 2 different backs?

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by AP34

I seen this on eBay. If my wrong back is actually a salesmen sample as I was told in this post. Is it possible to have Maris samples with 2 different backs?

Yes, the three cards on Salesman Samples are just a random strip of three consecutive cards on an uncut sheet. A Salesman Sample with the 1958 Roger Maris could go Frank Bolling-Wally Burnette-Roger Maris, Wally Burnette-Roger Maris-Del Rice, or Roger Maris-Del Rice-Bill Fischer, so the Maris could be in any of the three positions.