T206 Honus Wagner SGC 5 - John D. Wagner Collection

[cgjackson222]

As I'm sure many haven noticed, SGC's website currently shows a T206 Honus Wagner SGC 5 from the "John D. Wagner Collection."

According to the Certification Number (0077560) it was graded in July 2021.

I am assuming John D. Wagner is not a relative of Honus Wagner, but rather the collector discussed in this net54 thread.
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=275068

The article in the net54 thread states that John D. Wagner had two T206 Honus Wagners, and gave one to Jefferson Burdick to help fill his collection.
It also states John D. Wagner met Honus in the early 40s and Honus confirmed that he was "opposed to smoking and that he didn't want to influence kids in that direction, so he stopped them from printing that card."

The SGC website states "SGC has graded 17 Honus Wagner T206s, a large portion of the total population considering the card’s well-documented scarcity....
It feels strange to say, but this one is even more impressive than the VG 3. This one received the unbelievable grade of EX 5. It’s the highest graded example of a Wagner that SGC has ever had the pleasure of evaluating and we’d put it up against any other Honus in the entire hobby.

In order to speak a little more to the one-of-a-kind nature of the card, we felt it best to take the words directly from the mouth of SGC’s 23-year veteran and Director of Grading, Scott Hileman. When talking about the card for this article, Scott said,

“I’ve never seen one like it. The card has everything going for it: near 50/50 centering, a crisp image, even corner wear, awesome color, and a clean surface. I almost couldn’t believe what my eyes were seeing. These attributes are rare to even your average common T206, let alone a Wagner.”

As it stands, we don’t believe there are any immediate plans for the card to be sold."

Anyway, if an SGC 2 can fetch over $7M, then I can't imagine what an SGC 5 would go for.

[Lorewalker]

Does not appear to be EX to me. That is some heavy corner wear. Not shocked by the grade however. I would not expect to get anything better than a 4 from them if I submitted a T206 McBride that had corners like that.

[jingram058]

Beautiful card, and nice display frame/box too...all unobtanium.

[Bridwell]

It would be lucky to get a PSA 4, because of the corner wear. Also we can't see the back to see any possible flaws there.

[mrreality68]

I agree I do not think it is a 5. But it is a beautiful looking card (back unseen) and it would easily go for over 18 Million Dollars

[refz]

Perhaps in this case, the centering trumps corner wear? I agree with all of you on this matter. Maybe sgc is going to the next level on such an iconic card or do 3rd party graders do favors for higher end clients? Just my thoughts, on such an awesome card!!

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Does not appear to be EX to me. That is some heavy corner wear. Not shocked by the grade however. I would not expect to get anything better than a 4 from them if I submitted a T206 McBride that had corners like that.

I'm noticing a trend. I call myself a low grade collector, but I'm at least a mid grade collector by SGC's new standards for marquee cards.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by G1911

I'm noticing a trend. I call myself a low grade collector, but I'm at least a mid grade collector by SGC's new standards for marquee cards.

To say they stretched on this one would be an understatement. Greg it might be a great time to submit those 2 Balt News Ruths you are hiding from us.

One would think that since a marquee card will garner more attention that they might want to get the grading right. Additionally over by a full grade...or more...equates to enormous amounts of money on cards of this caliber.

Poster child, imo, for Just Saying No To Slabbing.

[drcy]

The problem with the overgrading is the focus will be on the overgrade. As evidenced by this thread.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by drcy

The problem with the overgrading is the focus will be on the overgrade. As evidenced by this thread.

Good point, though I would vary the wording slightly, as follows.

The problem with assigning a numerical grade is that the focus will be on the grade, not the card.

That Wagner is a GORGEOUS Wagner, IMO easily among the top few in the hobby. Yet the focus of this thread is the view it is over graded, and how corrupt SGC is to assign it the grade it did.

Yet if someone was to post a "properly" graded T206 Cobb 8, would there be a single post as to the probability (IMO about 100%) that the card has been worked on? Or how about an "8" that has badly toned borders and poor eye appeal, but "technically" merits an "8"?

I'll repeat a point I have made in the past and believe is worth making again -- The sole function of TPG should be to opine whether a card is genuine or counterfeit, and if genuine if it has been altered in any way. Anything other than that is a subjective assessment, which has no business being treated as some objective statement of condition.

Going back to this Wagner, IMO if we took the universe of slabbed T206s and showed how they really looked before any of the alteration/trimming been performed, I suspect people would not be so quick to opine it does not merit the accolades SGC gives it.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

To say they stretched on this one would be an understatement. Greg it might be a great time to submit those 2 Balt News Ruths you are hiding from us.

One would think that since a marquee card will garner more attention that they might want to get the grading right. Additionally over by a full grade...or more...equates to enormous amounts of money on cards of this caliber.

Poster child, imo, for Just Saying No To Slabbing.

I was thinking, if they’re just giving +2 for marquee cards without even being bribed, I might be able to get a 6 on one and a 7 on the other Ruth after bribing them. Guess I’m jumping on the SGC bandwagon!

This garbage is one of many reasons my cards stay raw and I crack the slabbed ones I buy. It’s a blatantly corrupt and dishonest process that isn’t about the cards at all but making money out of nothing out of an ‘opinion’ that is often bought and paid for, or abused for marketing and promotion at best. People with money invested into it or who think they could invest into it and join the pump for a profit will defend the graders no matter how many scandals (where do we even begin?), shady deals (like their big submitters getting to negotiate grades behind closed doors at their special events), altered cards (PWCC’s fraud ring just to start), fakes (from Connie Mack’s to SGC autographs), different standards for big submitters or friends of the graders (like that former Beckett grader who gets an absurd % of all black labels) and clearly dishonest grades (like this one) there are. Briefly discussed but ultimately ignored, as long as there’s profit in it.

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Does not appear to be EX to me. That is some heavy corner wear. Not shocked by the grade however. I would not expect to get anything better than a 4 from them if I submitted a T206 McBride that had corners like that.

Agree.

[T206Collector]

Very proud to have a signed T206 card from this collection!

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Very proud to have a signed T206 card from this collection!

Very interesting! John D. Wagner clearly had a very impressive collection. Cool that you snagged something from it.

[Leon]

Some more of John D Wagner's papers. These were mostly to Jefferson Burdick. I would imagine a few members haven't seen them. They have been shown several times but still relevant.. I know he talks about T206 Wagner's in one or more of them.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...ht=john+wagner

[rand1com]

The card is a 5 only in SGC's dreams.

It is a nice looking Wagner and may be the best one discounting the trimmed PSA 8 but the card would get a 3,3.5, or maybe a 4 on a good day for a regular collector.

The corner wear is even but unfortunately way too severe to warrant a 5.

[CurtisFlood]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Does not appear to be EX to me. That is some heavy corner wear. Not shocked by the grade however. I would not expect to get anything better than a 4 from them if I submitted a T206 McBride that had corners like that.

Based on recent items I have submitted to SGC it would be a three. Tyey are not easy on your cards.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

As I'm sure many haven noticed, SGC's website currently shows a T206 Honus Wagner SGC 5 from the "John D. Wagner Collection."

According to the Certification Number (0077560) it was graded in July 2021.

I am assuming John D. Wagner is not a relative of Honus Wagner, but rather the collector discussed in this net54 thread.
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=275068

The article in the net54 thread states that John D. Wagner had two T206 Honus Wagners, and gave one to Jefferson Burdick to help fill his collection.
It also states John D. Wagner met Honus in the early 40s and Honus confirmed that he was "opposed to smoking and that he didn't want to influence kids in that direction, so he stopped them from printing that card."

The SGC website states "SGC has graded 17 Honus Wagner T206s, a large portion of the total population considering the card’s well-documented scarcity....
It feels strange to say, but this one is even more impressive than the VG 3. This one received the unbelievable grade of EX 5. It’s the highest graded example of a Wagner that SGC has ever had the pleasure of evaluating and we’d put it up against any other Honus in the entire hobby.

In order to speak a little more to the one-of-a-kind nature of the card, we felt it best to take the words directly from the mouth of SGC’s 23-year veteran and Director of Grading, Scott Hileman. When talking about the card for this article, Scott said,

“I’ve never seen one like it. The card has everything going for it: near 50/50 centering, a crisp image, even corner wear, awesome color, and a clean surface. I almost couldn’t believe what my eyes were seeing. These attributes are rare to even your average common T206, let alone a Wagner.”

As it stands, we don’t believe there are any immediate plans for the card to be sold."

Anyway, if an SGC 2 can fetch over $7M, then I can't imagine what an SGC 5 would go for.

clearly a 1.5 if sent back to me by those slobs at SGC. Looks like a pinhole.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

clearly a 1.5 if sent back to me by those slobs at SGC. Looks like a pinhole.

Truth! I enjoy the speculation of prices when its been proven the posters here haven't a GD CLUE!

Can only imagine is wishful thinking their cards will be "worth" more when the speculators sell them.