Tommy De Vito, Mark Bavaro, and Other Italian American Tough Guys

[bk400]

I'd rather watch Tommy De Vito lose than watch Daniel Jones win. I hope Daboll gives him the starting job (though I know that that is unlikely given Jones's monstrosity of a contract).

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by bk400

I'd rather watch Tommy De Vito lose than watch Daniel Jones win. I hope Daboll gives him the starting job (though I know that that is unlikely given Jones's monstrosity of a contract).

Enjoyed watching Tommy play last night--can't believe he went from averaging 7 sacks a game over his last 4 games, to not having a single one, and running for 71 yards.

Guy has thrown only 3 picks over 6 starts. If he can hold his own vs. the Eagles later this season, I don't see how they can give the starting job back to Daniel Jones, bloated contract notwithstanding.

Question is if they will draft a QB in the first round.

[Republicaninmass]

Looks like there is more fan fare around his agent

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Enjoyed watching Tommy play last night--can't believe he went from averaging 7 sacks a game over his last 4 games, to not having a single one, and running for 71 yards.

Guy has thrown only 3 picks over 6 starts. If he can hold his own vs. the Eagles later this season, I don't see how they can give the starting job back to Daniel Jones, bloated contract notwithstanding.

Question is if they will draft a QB in the first round.

LOL, problem is DeVito is keeping them from being able to draft a game changer at the top of the draft.

I think they have to draft somebody, but the question is if this is the type of draft that a top talent falls closer to the middle of the pack in the draft order.

Giants are really only tied to Jones for 1 more year.

If a no-brainer is available at their pick this year, take him. If not wait another year and see if DeVito actually turns into something next year. Only a matter of time before Jones gets hurt again, unless they really step up their offensive line play...and it's been like 10 years since they've had a serviceable offensive line as it is.

Lets not get carried away with DeVito yet. Giants just beat 3 very bad to very mediocre teams, mostly on the back of their defense and getting turnovers. Anybody with a pulse, usually blows them out.

He's proven to be a good game manager so far and doesn't turn the ball over like Jones (at least not yet). He's essentially Tyrod Taylor, if Tyrod Taylor didn't get hurt every time he got a chance to play.

I think he might have won himself at least a backup job for a long time in this league. He's an older rookie. Almost as old as Dan Jones already. Probably a high floor, low ceiling type of player (ie, Tyrod Taylor, Gardner Minshew, Jacoby Brisett, etc..)

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

LOL, problem is DeVito is keeping them from being able to draft a game changer at the top of the draft.

I think they have to draft somebody, but the question is if this is the type of draft that a top talent falls closer to the middle of the pack in the draft order.

Giants are really only tied to Jones for 1 more year.

If a no-brainer is available at their pick this year, take him. If not wait another year and see if DeVito actually turns into something next year. Only a matter of time before Jones gets hurt again, unless they really step up their offensive line play...and it's been like 10 years since they've had a serviceable offensive line as it is.

Lets not get carried away with DeVito yet. Giants just beat 3 very bad to very mediocre teams, mostly on the back of their defense and getting turnovers. Anybody with a pulse, usually blows them out.

He's proven to be a good game manager so far and doesn't turn the ball over like Jones (at least not yet). He's essentially Tyrod Taylor, if Tyrod Taylor didn't get hurt every time he got a chance to play.

I think he might have won himself at least a backup job for a long time in this league. He's an older rookie. Almost as old as Dan Jones already. Probably a high floor, low ceiling type of player (ie, Tyrod Taylor, Gardner Minshew, Jacoby Brisett, etc..)

I think if any of the top 4 QBs are available (Caleb Williams, Drake Maye, Jayden Daniels, JJ McCarthy) you draft them. I am not sure you draft Bo Nix or Michael Penix Jr. so high. I guess you could trade down for them.

[mrreality68]

He looks good thru the first 4 games of his career and he is athletic and fun to watch.
Not sure on the long term potential as the sample size is small but he earned the starting job the rest of the year and he is putting himself in a great position for a raise and for a backup role vs 3rd string

[bk400]

The Giants looked like the worst team in the NFL until De Vito took the reigns.

The Giants are still an awful, non-competitive team in many respects (and the Eagles might poleaxe them), but at least they are showing up with effort and fight. And they actually have a non-zero chance of making the playoffs.

De Vito is an early study in strong leadership -- at least that's what it looks like watching from an armchair.

[John1941]

I'm just happy to see an Italian-American getting a little success in the NFL.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by John1941

I'm just happy to see an Italian-American getting a little success in the NFL.

Kind of like this other Giant?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqlVwmEiwaE

[mrreality68]

They are more fun to watch even with no real reason to watch with the season done.
Scary but last e games he looked better than D. Jones and he is doing it with the same leaking O Line
But with 2 more against the Eagles(I always hate in a 16/now 17 game season that they make the schedule to have the same 2 teams play twice within 2 weeks of each other in this case 16 and 18)

[packs]

Everyone loves a guy who shows up to play. I don't feel like Eli ever wowed anyone with analytics or stats but anyone who ever watched him play knew that Eli was there to try to win every game. I get the same feeling when I watch DeVito play. I don't feel the same way when Daniel Jones is out there.

[rjackson44]

both horrible lol

[John1941]

Originally Posted by bk400

Kind of like this other Giant?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqlVwmEiwaE

Yeah, though I didn't know it.

I'd never heard of Mark Bavaro before, but that's kind of an amazing play.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by John1941

Yeah, though I didn't know it.

I'd never heard of Mark Bavaro before, but that's kind of an amazing play.

The Giants would show that play at training camp every year for decades (maybe the still do).

There's a great interview of Bavaro on youtube, which goes into his family history: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7vW_0vL5qs

[John1941]

That was a cool interview - thanks for sharing.

Is it my imagination or was football much more brutal in the 1980s?

[bk400]

Originally Posted by packs

Everyone loves a guy who shows up to play. I don't feel like Eli ever wowed anyone with analytics or stats but anyone who ever watched him play knew that Eli was there to try to win every game. I get the same feeling when I watch DeVito play. I don't feel the same way when Daniel Jones is out there.

+1.

The only Eli stats that matter to Giants fans (and perhaps to him) is 2. As in the number of championships he won.

In terms of advanced analytics, here's one -- Eli Manning had only one Pro Bowler teammate in both Super Bowl winning seasons (Osi Umenyiora in 2007 and Jason Pierre Paul in 2011).

[bk400]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

The Giants would show that play at training camp every year for decades (maybe the still do).

There's a great interview of Bavaro on youtube, which goes into his family history: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7vW_0vL5qs

That's an awesome interview. I love the end: "Tough."

I don't think there is a more beloved player among old school Giants fans than Mark Bavaro.

(I happened to purchase this card about a week ago.)

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by bk400

That's an awesome interview. I love the end: "Tough."

I don't think there is a more beloved player among old school Giants fans than Mark Bavaro.

(I happened to purchase this card about a week ago.)

Wow, awesome pickup!

This other interview is entertaining as well, especially when they talk about how Bavaro kept his stength up after he broke his jaw and had it wired shut.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH50FyoM6Dk

[bk400]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Wow, awesome pickup!

This other interview is entertaining as well, especially when they talk about how Bavaro kept his stength up after he broke his jaw and had it wired shut.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH50FyoM6Dk

This is bona fide crazy stuff. I wonder how many players today would have their jaw wired shut in the first half and then return in the second half of the same game. Probably answers John1941's query about whether the league was more brutal back then.

I believe there was an interview where Ronnie Lott said that he is still haunted by Mark Bavaro dragging him for 15 yards on national television.

(As an aside, I changed the subject of this thread to reflect its broadened subject matter.)

[Chuck9788]

Here (below) are some Italian Americans that made the Football Hall Of Fame.

[Chuck9788]

[Shoeless Moe]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...appearance-fee

[bk400]

Tommy De Vito's agent looks like a douchebag. De Vito would do well by emulating Eli Manning in terms of handling himself off the field.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...appearance-fee

Apparently DeVito showed up anyways and did the appearance for free...so good on him, undercutting his agent.

[D. Bergin]

I'm afraid the Giants aren't ever going to find out if Tommy DeVito, Daniel Jones, or anybody else they may end up drafting, can be any good, until they actually can put together a serviceable offensive line.

They've taken a ridiculous 76 sacks this year, with 3 games left to play in the season.

To put that in perspective, David Carr was famously ruined by the Houston Texans his Rookie season, when he took 76 sacks for the full year, and it didn't get much better for him in the following years. That's the most sacks any QB has taken in a single season. Giants have just split it up between multiple QB's...and it's only taken 14 games.

It doesn't get much better in the running game either, despite having one of the best backs in the league. Barkley has to fight for literally every yard he gets on the field.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I'm afraid the Giants aren't ever going to find out if Tommy DeVito, Daniel Jones, or anybody else they may end up drafting, can be any good, until they actually can put together a serviceable offensive line.

They've taken a ridiculous 76 sacks this year, with 3 games left to play in the season.

To put that in perspective, David Carr was famously ruined by the Houston Texans his Rookie season, when he took 76 sacks for the full year, and it didn't get much better for him in the following years. That's the most sacks any QB has taken in a single season. Giants have just split it up between multiple QB's...and it's only taken 14 games.

It doesn't get much better in the running game either, despite having one of the best backs in the league. Barkley has to fight for literally every yard he gets on the field.

I agree, the Giants need to prioritize Offensive Line, and will not give DeVito, Barkley, Jones or any else a fair chance until they do. Unfortunately, they have been very poor at drafting/developing O-lineman. Since the 2014 draft, the Giants have drafted six offensive linemen within the first two rounds, most in the NFL during that span. They’ve also drafted three offensive linemen within the top 10 picks. No other team has taken more than one offensive lineman in the top 10 in that span. Andrew Thomas is good, but Evan Neal (7th pick), Ereck Flowers (9th pick), Will Hernandez (pick 34) and others are not. I wish they'd trade for good O-lineman rather than just gambling again in the draft.

[bk400]

@DBergin https://nypost.com/2023/12/19/sports...r-fee-dispute/

Looks like Tommy De Vito indeed did the stand up thing pretty quickly. No doubt he's from Jersey -- you can't have the local pizza guys badmouth you if you want to be part of the brotherhood. Not sure if relevant, but Eli Manning, Phil Simms, Harry Carson, Joe Morris, Leonard Marshall, and George Martin are among the classy and beloved ring-winning Giants who all still live in Northern Jersey.

On Giants offensive line, I'm not even sure they had a great offensive line when Eli Manning and Phil Simms were winning rings. In many ways, the Giants may have been spoiled by winning reasonably regularly in the past without a consistent Pro Bowler anchoring the O-line.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by bk400

@DBergin https://nypost.com/2023/12/19/sports...r-fee-dispute/

Looks like Tommy De Vito indeed did the stand up thing pretty quickly. No doubt he's from Jersey -- you can't have the local pizza guys badmouth you if you want to be part of the brotherhood. Not sure if relevant, but Eli Manning, Phil Simms, Harry Carson, Joe Morris, Leonard Marshall, and George Martin are among the classy and beloved ring-winning Giants who all still live in Northern Jersey.

On Giants offensive line, I'm not even sure they had a great offensive line when Eli Manning and Phil Simms were winning rings. In many ways, the Giants may have been spoiled by winning reasonably regularly in the past without a consistent Pro Bowler anchoring the O-line.

Giants have had some good O-lineman through the years. Simms had Bart Oates and Jumbo Elliott, Manning had David Diehl, Chris Snee (New Jersey guy btw), and Shaun O’Hara. But yeah, I guess they weren’t perennial All Pros.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Giants have had some good O-lineman through the years. Simms had Bart Oates and Jumbo Elliott, Manning had David Diehl, Chris Snee (New Jersey guy btw), and Shaun O’Hara. But yeah, I guess they weren’t perennial All Pros.

Fair points on Oates, Jumbo, DD, and Chris Snee. They were better than what their individual accolades would suggest. At the least, they prevented the opposition from killing their wards.

I'm seriously concerned that De Vito might get injured badly playing the Eagles next week.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Giants have had some good O-lineman through the years. Simms had Bart Oates and Jumbo Elliott, Manning had David Diehl, Chris Snee (New Jersey guy btw), and Shaun O’Hara. But yeah, I guess they weren’t perennial All Pros.

Don't forget Brad Benson. Mainly just an old reliable, but the only O-lineman I've ever heard of getting named NFL Offensive Player of the Week for his dominating work against Dexter Manley.

Overall Simms took much more punishment and many more sacks then Manning. Whether is was the era or the playing style is debatable. Simms was more mobile and would try to stretch plays out. Manning was more likely to throw the ball away or turtle up for a low yardage sack if nothing was there.

Manning had some nice O lines in the late 2000's, though most of his teams tended to either have strong run blocking, or strong pass blocking...but rarely both.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by bk400

I'm seriously concerned that De Vito might get injured badly playing the Eagles next week.

2 games left out of three against an Eagles team that may be trying to make a statement against a lesser team, after struggling a bit lately.

Not to mention the Eagles have always just been bad juju for the Giants historically. They could write a book on all the bad things that happened to the Giants while playing the Eagles.