PWCC Lenox Backs

[becollie]

Hi there, hope all is well.

Not really a rare back guy but it seemed to me that the PWCC sales for Lenox backs last night came in pretty low. Is that a fair assessment or am I just not following sales closely enough. And are there really only less than a couple hundred graded? Was surprised by the pop reports. Anyway, glad to have picked up a few.

[Rhotchkiss]

Put it this way, at one point I was working on a brown lenox subset. That meant I would bid heavy on any brown lenox I needed. I often bid against the seller of last night's cards, in addition to maybe a few other people. I am no longer pursuing brown lenox and I did not even know the auction ended last night. So, I am out of the market and one of my main competitors was the seller -- that is two big, historic bidders that were not bidding last night.

Add to that the facts that (I believe) PWCC is a terrible venue to sell these kind of cards and they are just absolutely flooding the market with rare backs -- creating way more supply than demand -- and it does not surprise me at all that prices were low. Indeed, I would expect nothing different under these circumstances.

Regarding Brown Lenox -- it used to be that 1-2 came to market each year. Last night they had like 8+ (if they were all actually brown - PSA is totally inept and color blind). That's just way too many at one time. I expect the black lenox is just a less dramatic example of the browns.

The real question is why would the Seller sell his rare back T206 collection this way? If it was me, I would leak cards out over a 2-3 year period so as to not flood the market, and I would not be using PWCC.

[MVSNYC]

Yes, some went low, but many were very strong (clearly the HOFers and better condition commons...very strong prices).

I think Lenox (Black & Brown) are still (and always will be) absolutely considered very rare, but Ryan nailed it...there were way too many being sold at once, and he and the consignor were not bidding, that took out two major bidders.

becollie- Let's see what you won!

I picked up this example, which for around $1,000 all-in, a steal, IMO...due to the factors that Ryan mentioned.

[DCJayhawk]

I won one for my back run. I agree with everything Ryan said...and glad he wasnt bidding cause he woulda bid me into the ground.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

The real question is why would the Seller sell his rare back T206 collection this way? If it was me, I would leak cards out over a 2-3 year period so as to not flood the market, and I would not be using PWCC.

Take about 30 seconds to ponder this question, and you'll get your answer.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Take about 30 seconds to ponder this question, and you'll get your answer.

My question was somewhat rhetorical. I don't know anything, but I have some ideas. And since I don't know anything, all I can do is speculate. As for why sell all these at once -- either Seller needed the money fast or he thought this was a good way to sell his rare backs. As for why he picked PWCC - they either gave him a deal he couldn't refuse or he is tied in with PWCC old or PWCC new and did this in connection with that relationship. Again, I know nothing other than its very odd. Jeff, anything you can add?

Tyler/Mike -- Great pick ups!!

[MVSNYC]

Thanks Ryan!

Tyler, that Conroy was one of the best Brown examples in the auction, nice get!

(Hi Jeff, been too long, let's catch up.)

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Put it this way, at one point I was working on a brown lenox subset. That meant I would bid heavy on any brown lenox I needed. I often bid against the seller of last night's cards, in addition to maybe a few other people. I am no longer pursuing brown lenox and I did not even know the auction ended last night. So, I am out of the market and one of my main competitors was the seller -- that is two big, historic bidders that were not bidding last night.

I think this situation highlights how rare and obscure pieces are particularly sensitive and susceptible to the addition or removal of a few motivated bidders with the resources to really run up the score.

That and if one or more of those bidders somehow misses the auction, including because it’s being held on a platform that doesn’t attract as many eyeballs, then it further impacts the outcome.

And for those of us whose purchasing history matches this pattern, I guess we can all hope that when we decide to sell, someone else (or better yet, a few someone elses) just as passionate will step in and be ready to bid like drunken sailors to buy our stuff.

[Shankweather]

I also was surprised to see that kind of set on PWCC. And surprised to get this Cubs HOFer for a reasonable price. I was tempted to chase that Lenox Brown Orval Overall but thought better of it.

[dariushou]

I have bid on a few in past auctions and won one for a pretty penny recently. I won't bid in PWCC auctions...no matter how much I want a card. So, count someone else out who has paid through the nose in the past. Beautiful cards. Glad they found several homes.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by dariushou

I have bid on a few in past auctions and won one for a pretty penny recently. I won't bid in PWCC auctions...no matter how much I want a card. So, count someone else out who has paid through the nose in the past. Beautiful cards. Glad they found several homes.

I haven't bid with them yet but since they were sold, I am going to bid in the future. Different ownership, different ways of doing business. To each their own though.
.

[wazoo]

Was fortunate enough to snag the Schaefer....thought it was also a good deal...

[becollie]

Thanks everyone for the comments.

I was able to snag the Frill and Schlei.

Now I just need to find a Drum, Carolina, and Uzit ;-)

Anyone selling (PSA 1/2)?

[wazoo]

The Schlei is gorgeous!!

Pics added for Schaefer

[inceptus]

Love this card! Nice pick up, particularly at that price...

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

Yes, some went low, but many were very strong (clearly the HOFers and better condition commons...very strong prices).

I think Lenox (Black & Brown) are still (and always will be) absolutely considered very rare, but Ryan nailed it...there were way too many being sold at once, and he and the consignor were not bidding, that took out two major bidders.

becollie- Let's see what you won!

I picked up this example, which for around $1,000 all-in, a steal, IMO...due to the factors that Ryan mentioned.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

I picked up this example, which for around $1,000 all-in, a steal, IMO...due to the factors that Ryan mentioned.

Are you sure this one is Brown? I don't think mechanical errors are within the purview of the PSA Grade Guarantee.

[MVSNYC]

Great cards, guys!

Inceptus, thanks!


Hi John, I never said it was Brown. It’s Black.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

Hi John, I never said it was Brown. It’s Black.

Sorry about that; I misread the slab.

[NYYFan63]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Put it this way, at one point I was working on a brown lenox subset. That meant I would bid heavy on any brown lenox I needed. I often bid against the seller of last night's cards, in addition to maybe a few other people. I am no longer pursuing brown lenox and I did not even know the auction ended last night. So, I am out of the market and one of my main competitors was the seller -- that is two big, historic bidders that were not bidding last night.

Add to that the facts that (I believe) PWCC is a terrible venue to sell these kind of cards and they are just absolutely flooding the market with rare backs -- creating way more supply than demand -- and it does not surprise me at all that prices were low. Indeed, I would expect nothing different under these circumstances.

Regarding Brown Lenox -- it used to be that 1-2 came to market each year. Last night they had like 8+ (if they were all actually brown - PSA is totally inept and color blind). That's just way too many at one time. I expect the black lenox is just a less dramatic example of the browns.

The real question is why would the Seller sell his rare back T206 collection this way? If it was me, I would leak cards out over a 2-3 year period so as to not flood the market, and I would not be using PWCC.

I agree - I didn’t understand why he would consign with PWCC. He must have received a nice piece of the BP.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[srik]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Are you sure this one is Brown? I don't think mechanical errors are within the purview of the PSA Grade Guarantee.

That one is black, and slabbed as such
[Update: oops - ignore, just caught up on the thread]

[srik]

That Orval Overall, Lenox Brown, is a real beaut: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/premier-auction/10868

[Casey2296]

I love to see opportunities like this for collectors to add to their PC's at affordable levels, let's face it, it hasn't been so easy to build a collection the last 3 years.

[MVSNYC]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Sorry about that; I misread the slab.

Hi John, all good! Hope all is well.

[rebelsart]

Very happy to add two T206 Lenox backs from the PWCC auction.
Harry Davis, Phila. Amer. PSA 3
Red Kleinow, Boston Amer. PSA 1

[steve B]

Originally Posted by srik

That Orval Overall, Lenox Brown, is a real beaut: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/premier-auction/10868

That card is very nice.

The black gloves in the video that doesn't really show any details though.... Just strange. Even many professional archives have backed way off on the former requirement for white cotton gloves when handling objects.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by steve B

That card is very nice.

Very nice. That same card sold as an SGC 5 for $16,800 in REA in April of 2016. Over 7 years later, and several booms in T206 and rare back values, and after being crossed to PSA, the card sells for $300 more. A year ago, with Seller and I bidding on this, the card would have gone for well over $30k.

These PWCC auctions are really providing an amazing opportunity for people to get some super tough cards at very reasonable prices (relatively speaking). Its almost philanthropical!!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Very nice. That same card sold as an SGC 5 for $16,800 in REA in April of 2016. Over 7 years later, and several booms in T206 and rare back values, and after being crossed to PSA, the card sells for $300 more. A year ago, with Seller and I bidding on this, the card would have gone for well over $30k.

These PWCC auctions are really providing an amazing opportunity for people to get some super tough cards at very reasonable prices (relatively speaking). Its almost philanthropical!!

Not quite ....

.

[MR RAREBACK]

I am not signed up for pwcc premier
dont want to send a pic of my bank account