Question about Tom Barker Baseball Card Game

[e6phillips]

Does anyone know what exactly this document is? Is it an ad? Was it inserted with the game?

Thanks

[Peter_Spaeth]

I don't know, I presume from the folds it came with the set, but those instructions seem really hard to follow.

[prestigecollectibles]

Here's some info from prewarcards.com
https://prewarcards.com/2016/10/06/w...and-checklist/

[brianp-beme]

Nice stamp...Sherman, as everyone knows, is the Pocketbook King. It is a little tough to make out the town, state, etc. that is listed for the business. Perhaps the OP can dechiper and pass along that info.

I imagine these rules were included as part of the box set. It just makes sense that this is the case.

And just for a little associated background information, here is what I wrote about the respective printing dates of the Tom Barker cards versus the National game game cards several years back, based upon the team change/photo change seen in the Hal Chase cards in both sets.

A few years ago it was neat to discover (maybe I wasn't the first) that the Hal Chase cards in the 1913 National Game and 1913 Tom Barker are different poses, with the National Game set designating him as a New York Yankee and depicting him in a Yankee uniform, while the Tom Barker designates him as a member of the Chicago White Sox and shows him in a White Sox uniform.

These two Chase cards definitively point to the fact that the National Game set was issued before the Tom Barker in 1913, since Hal Chase was traded from the Yankees to the White Sox on June 1st, 1913. Both the Tom Barker and National Game cards have a patent date on the back of the card of March 25, 1913. Thus the National Game set was likely first issued in spring of 1913, while the Tom Barker set had to have been issued late summer 1913 at the earliest.

Why is this cool? For rookie collectors who are persnickety, Grover Alexander's National Game card can be identified as being his first card issued, with his Tom Barker a close second.

Brian (Note: the Alexander is not my minty card)

[brianp-beme]

Right after posting my previous post, I looked closer and the rulebook stamp does appear to indicate Boston Mass.

Brian

[FrankWakefield]

Tom Barker's Game was designated WG6 by Mr. Burdick,
The National Game was designated WG5.

NB that Brian's Alexander is a WG5, IF PSA got that one right.

So, I'm posting this so you can see the Rules card and the Scoring card.


That paper above doesn't have all of the rules, it's more of a small handbill or advertisement. The Rules card came with the game. That piece of paper realistically has a hand stamp shop advertisement on it... someone may well have picked up that piece of paper, bought the game, then folded that paper and placed it inside. But I don't think that paper came inside the game box; I think it was laying around to get someone thinking about buying the game.

The WG5s and WG6s are normal playing card size. How big is that piece of paper, as folded?


I do confess that prior to seeing that picture of hands holding cards, I had not bothered to grasp that whoever's team was "hitting" would hold cards so "batter" appeared on the left side; while whoever was in the field would hold their cards so that "batter" was upside down and on the right.

I don't think that paper was included with the original box. But it's a great piece of the games puzzle.

If I ever get a weekend to converse with and ask Jefferson Burdick questions, I'll ask about why National Game got WG5 and Tom Barker got WG6, and who was copying who...

[trambo]

My Tom Barker Set isn't complete (nearly halfway) but my 1913 NG Set is 100% done. Here's the registry link and I think the front/backs of all the cards are there:

https://www.psacard.com/psasetregist...shedset/113789


Not sure how many of the card scans are done in my Barker set but here's that link as well:

https://www.psacard.com/psasetregist...shedset/358117

[FrankWakefield]

Troy, do are the pictures, text, and game info virtually identical for the 2 sets?

[FrankWakefield]

In a thread from 12 years ago, Leon had what looked like a paper instruction sheet for WG6's. Still, the paper above is more of an ad.

WG4 Polo 1914
WG5 National Game 1913
WG6 Tom Barker 1913
WG7 Walter Mails 1923
WG8 S&S 1936

So I just looked in my 1960 edition American Card Catalog... WG is the designation for greeting cards in there. At some point the designation changed??? Help!!!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Do we have any clue who Tom Barker was? I don't recall ever seeing an answer to that.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

In a thread from 12 years ago, Leon had what looked like a paper instruction sheet for WG6's. Still, the paper above is more of an ad.

WG4 Polo 1914
WG5 National Game 1913
WG6 Tom Barker 1913
WG7 Walter Mails 1923
WG8 S&S 1936

So I just looked in my 1960 edition American Card Catalog... WG is the designation for greeting cards in there. At some point the designation changed??? Help!!!

Frank, according to Old Cardboard, here is the explanation on how the sets got their current name:
"Notes on "WG" Nomenclature: The WG5 and WG6 designations are often attributed to the American Card Catalog. Curiously, however, the WG designation in the ACC (1960) is reserved for "Greeting Cards" with the lower numbers (WG1 through WG50) used more specifically for Valentine cards. The WG designation as applied to baseball-themed playing cards was apparently first used in the late 1970s in the Sports Collectors Bible under the general heading "Team Games.'"

Here is the link: https://www.oldcardboard.com/eNews/2...eNews154.htm#2

Old Cardboard's set summary also shows a four page paper rules insert as associated with the Tom Barker set, although different from what the OP shows, which I agree is more likely an ad:
https://www.oldcardboard.com/wg/wg6/...?cardsetID=951

Still, it looks like these things could vary, as the Scorecard in the Barker set differs from what Frank posted, at least when associated with Fenway Breweries. Frank I assume your scorecard is from the NG set and not Barker. I am uncertain if Barker used the same scorecards as National Game when not advertising for Fenway Breweries. I also do not know if the scorecard for Fenway Breweries is the same when it shows a National game back. Maybe others can clarify.

[scooter729]

Doesn't totally answer the questions, but seemed like a good time to share these two boxes which the sets came in. One of them has a Fenway Breweries ad on the back.

[FrankWakefield]

Todd, that's correct, those 4 cards I posted are all from WG5 National Game. Every time I look at the Scorecard card, my eyes go to that "use pin stuck in card to keep track of baserunners" line, and I cringe. A 9 year old me would have been doing that very thing. I'm glad no kid was poking holes in the card I have.

Scott, both of those boxes have ads on them, and they are great looking! Any idea if they held WG5s or WG6s?


Everyone, look at the bottom of the thread page, where Net54 lists similar threads. The top thread shows Tom Barker vs The National Game. And in that thread, Leon posted the rules paper for the Tom Barker game.

[scooter729]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

Scott, both of those boxes have ads on them, and they are great looking! Any idea if they held WG5s or WG6s?

Frank - both boxes have the runner and say "National Game" on one side. One has the Fenway Breweries ad on the reverse, and the other has this National Game logo on the flip.

Not to get off-topic, but confusing to me is where the Home Run Baker card with the Fenway Breweries ad would be found. Most Baker cards have the Tom Barker back, but I have one with the National Game back as well. Were they found in these box sets which have the Fenway Breweries ad?

[Southpaw85]

About 25 years ago my family received a moderately used set of WG5 National Game (avg. PSA 7) including the original box and 53/54 cards. It was missing the original score card - likely destroyed and tossed after a few uses. It did *not* include the above rules sheet.

[brianp-beme]

Here is what I believe is the National Game version of the scorecard on the left, and the Tom Barker version (this example has the Fenway ad stamp) on the right. Both of these got some nice usage, including a fair amount of pin poking on the Barker card.

Brian

[nolemmings]

Brian, there is another version of the scorecard-- one that uses the Fenway front and the how to hold cards back.

[Svabinsky78]

Both the National Game and Tom Barker are relatively scarce....with the Tom Barker being the more scarce of the two.....

i.e.....There are 36 Alexander Tom Barker PSA graded cards.....versus 72 National Game cards....

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by scooter729

Frank - both boxes have the runner and say "National Game" on one side. One has the Fenway Breweries ad on the reverse, and the other has this National Game logo on the flip.

Not to get off-topic, but confusing to me is where the Home Run Baker card with the Fenway Breweries ad would be found. Most Baker cards have the Tom Barker back, but I have one with the National Game back as well. Were they found in these box sets which have the Fenway Breweries ad?

Scott, I've always been interested about the Fenway Breweries stamped Baker and would love to own one someday, the mystery about that card has always fascinated me.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Brian, there is another version of the scorecard-- one that uses the Fenway front and the how to hold cards back.

Hi Todd, perhaps that does indicate, along with the Fenway stamped Baker that Scott says he has, that the Fenway stamp was not exclusive to the Tom Barker issue, which I have lived my whole collecting life under the false assumption that Fenway stamps were only associated with Tom Barker cards.

My new assumption is that the Fenway stamped National Game cards were issued in a much smaller quantity compared to the Fenway stamped Barker cards.

Brian (I am assuming the position that my assumptions are always likely to be blown to bits)

[scooter729]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Hi Todd, perhaps that does indicate, along with the Fenway stamped Baker that Scott says he has, that the Fenway stamp was not exclusive to the Tom Barker issue, which I have lived my whole collecting life under the false assumption that Fenway stamps were only associated with Tom Barker cards.

My new assumption is that the Fenway stamped National Game cards were issued in a much smaller quantity compared to the Fenway stamped Barker cards.

Brian (I am assuming the position that my assumptions are always likely to be blown to bits)

Hi Brian - here is my Fenway Breweries Baker.....

[e6phillips]

Thanks for all of the great info about this piece and the set!

Someone asked about the size of the creases in the document. They are about 1.25 inches apart from each other. The document itself is 3 x 5.

[Leon]

From my last collection...