Joe Jackson’s Insanely Scarce Cards / Photos / Items

[brunswickreeves]

Joe, where’d you go?! Let’s see your playing days Joe Jackson cards / photos / items.

According to PSA, SGC and Beckett Grading POP Reports, Joe Jackson has some of the most scarce cards (or omitted appearances therein) for a player of his caliber or popularity during the MLB’s infancy in the early 1900’s.

Honus Wagner had 64+ playing days card issues/appearances from 1897 through 1916 (14 of which were from 1897 through 1908, leaving 50+ in the 8 years from 1909 through 1916).

Joe Jackson’s playing days card/photo issues/appearances in the 14 years of 1907 through 1920 total only….44+!

Thus, Joe Jackson was in 35%+ fewer the # of card issues/appearances compared to Wagner.

Moreover, according to Graded POP reports:

Wagner has 2,667+ graded playing days cards.
Jackson only has….1,484+ graded playing days cards, total!

Why is Jackson missing from some of the most important pre-war sets (1909 T206; 1909 E92, 95, 101, 102; 1910 E90-2, 93, 103 , 104, 105, 125, 286; 1910 PC796; 1910 W-UNC; 1911 M110, etc.)?

In 1908 and 1909, Jackson only played 5 games for the Athletics and batted .130 and .176, respectively, yet made the 1909 E90-1 American Caramel card. In 1910, Jackson joined Cleveland, played in only 20 games and batted .387 (3rd highest in his 13 years of pro ball)! Did his lackluster 1908 and 1909 seasons keep Jackson out of major sets in 1909 and 1910? During this time period, Wagner was in 28+ card issues/appearances. Jackson was in only 1! 1909 E90-1.

Then in 1911 Jackson first appeared in a Cleveland uniform in the iconic 1909-1913 M101-2 Sporting News Supplements issue (which Jackson shared with Inaugural 1st class MLB HOFers Wagner, Cobb, Mathewson and Johnson, in addition to Young and more!). Important to note is that Jackson’s M101-2 issue was distributed on March 23, 1911. This means his fielding image from that issue would have been captured at one of the 20 games he played during his 1st season with Cleveland in 1910. Following this appearance, Jackson was in 26+ card issues/appearances during the 9 years from 1912 through 1920. Of this, Jackson was in 22+ card issues/appearances during the 5 years from 1912 through 1916. Comparatively, Wagner was in 17+ card issues/appearances during this same time period.

What does this all mean?

First, when was Joe Jackson’s actual Rookie season? Was it 1908 when he played 5 games for the Athletics and landed on the 1909 E90-1 card (181 total graded)? Was it 1910 when he played 20 games for Cleveland and landed on the 1911 M101-2 March 23, 1911 issue of Sporting News Supplements (25 total graded)? Or was it 1911 when he played his first full season of 147 games?

Second, Jackson seems to have yet again been stamped out of baseball history. He was omitted from some of the most iconic and widely collected pre-war sets in 1909 and 1910, thus reducing the total POP of his cards. Yet, Jackson gained traction (and more cards in POP) with National Game, Tom Baker, Cracker Jack, Polo Grounds and 1919-21 W-514 card issues/appearances. Jackson has only 1,484+ graded playing days cards/photos across 44+ issues vs. Wagner with 2,667+ graded playing days cards across 64+ issues!

All in all, Jackson’s mystique and scarcity in both card issues/appearances and total POP continues to fascinate our hobby more than 100 years after his last day in a pro ball White Sox uniform. Was he a victim to really bad timing (card issues and proximity to the Black Sox scandal)? Or is there more to his story than we will ever know? In summary, given his undisputed contributions to baseball, positive influence on young players (e.g. Babe Ruth), and acquittal of the Black Sox scandal, I hope one day the MLB or Congress approves his overdue acceptance into the MLB Hall of Fame. For the time being, our hobby will continue to keep his legacy and memory alive through our tenacious collecting of his scarce cards/photos/items.

For a Graded POP analysis of Jackson’s playing days cards, see Excel below (see later versions for updates as more cards/photos are shared and raised-up).

[ezez420]

Not sure why this isn't on the list.

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[brunswickreeves]

Very cool! I pulled from grading co POP reports, so could be not graded or human error.

[JustinD]

Interesting thoughts as to the many sets he was omitted from.

I have always thought that much of the scarcity in the quantity of cards from the sets he was actually included in was due to them being discarded or destroyed by disappointed kids and adults after the scandal. You can quite easily imagine during the time they were seen as negative to have and also having no value.

It takes many, many years for people to be able to see past current day transgressions and look big picture. An easy comparison can be made to several players of the 80s and 90s.

[boneheadandrube]

He missed the "card boom" of 1908-1911 because he wasn't noteworthy yet, and he missed the 1920's...thats why he doesn't have many cards. There are a lot of players who missed the card production boom who suffered the same fate. Why not many 1911 cards (?), because images from his 1911 season wouldn't be used to produce things until 1912 or later probably.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by boneheadandrube

He missed the "card boom" of 1908-1911 because he wasn't noteworthy yet, and he missed the 1920's...thats why he doesn't have many cards. There are a lot of players who missed the card production boom who suffered the same fate. Why not many 1911 cards (?), because images from his 1911 season wouldn't be used to produce things until 1912 or later probably.

This.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by ezez420

Not sure why this isn't on the list.

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Wow that is a great piece.
If you ever decide to give it up.
Give me a call. Lol

Amazing piece indeed

[mrreality68]

Here is a few of mine

[invest]

Here is my only Joe Jackson card

Troy

[skelly423]

I've only got one, but it's a special one.

[Stonepony]

9132A8EF-1D28-4646-A857-AF991C29D0C2.jpg

[90feetaway]

Also the B14 Blanket is out there...here's mine. I don't think PSA grades these but SGC and Beckett do.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by boneheadandrube

He missed the "card boom" of 1908-1911 because he wasn't noteworthy yet, and he missed the 1920's...thats why he doesn't have many cards. There are a lot of players who missed the card production boom who suffered the same fate. Why not many 1911 cards (?), because images from his 1911 season wouldn't be used to produce things until 1912 or later probably.

I agree. If his career had ramped up a couple of years earlier, and lasted another couple of years, he would have been in a TON of issues, probably more than Honus Wagner. His E90-1 image would have likely been included in all E92/E101/E102/E105/E106 and D303 etc. sets, and we would also seen cool different artwork for him in possibly the E93, E94, E95/E96, and E98 sets. Another couple of years at the end of his career would have undoubtedly gotten him into the E120, E121 and E122 American Caramel sets and related issues utilizing the same photos (W573, W575, W501 V61-1, V61-2 etc.), as well as E220 National Caramel and a variety of other sets (W503, W575-2, as well as a bunch of strip sets besides W514).

Brian

[mrreality68]

A few more with different ad backs

[ullmandds]

Ive never owned one. 😟

[Rhotchkiss]

Ed, that Athletics composite is awesome; let me know if you ever want to trade it.
Here are two with the New Orleans Pelicans, one with the Greenville Spinners, one with the Athletics and one with Chicago

I believe his rookie “card” is the E90-1 bc that is the first picture of him alone on a pro team. However, the T210 is truly one of the most desirable and rarest Joe Jackson cards, and I think, one of the top 10 baseball cards in the hobby.

The Spinner Cabinet is the oldest image I have of Joe; it was on the Spinners where he received his nickname “shoeless Joe”

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Ed, that Athletics composite is awesome; let me know if you ever want to trade it.
Here are two with the New Orleans Pelicans, one with the Greenville Spinners, one with the Athletics and one with Chicago

I believe his rookie “card” is the E90-1 bc that is the first picture of him alone on a pro team. However, the T210 is truly one of the most desirable and rarest Joe Jackson cards, and I think, one of the top 10 baseball cards in the hobby.

The Spinner Cabinet is the oldest image I have of Joe; it was on the Spinners where he received his nickname “shoeless Joe”

great items Ryan. If you ever want to trade that Cabinet Photo or the Pennant Winner we can talk..

[Johnny T]

Here's mine...nothing as good as a lot of the rest, but I love the image.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Johnny T

Here's mine...nothing as good as a lot of the rest, but I love the image.

Johnny

Do not sell yourself short. That is a great card at and a great pose

And at some point I will be attempting to get one of those for my collection

[Johnny T]

Thanks Jeff

[Rhotchkiss]

BTW- the E90–1 Jackson is so difficult to find in nice condition. So many are diamond cut, or off center, or total beat up, or the red lips appear somewhere else on the face, including sometimes acting as a red mustache. I feel like many E90–1s suffer from these defects/issues, but I feel like Jackson suffers the most.

[puckpaul]

Don’t forget the M113. Tough to find in great condition. Not sure what year the Jackson is from, probably 1913.

[robertsmithnocure]

Wish that I still had this one.

[anchorednw]

The only Joe Jackson I own was acquired this past weekend at REA.

[Aaron Seefeldt]

Police Gazette & caramel popcorn candy

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by robertsmithnocure

Wish that I still had this one.

Wow. That is a great looking card; still the main pic is a bit tilted, but hands down one of the prettiest e90-1 Jacksons out there

[theshowandme]

This thread is insane!


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[ezez420]

Thanks for comments on the w601. Right now just in PC. Here's another one that doesn't come out much. Just a little undergraded.




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[BeanTown]

Here is a type 1 photo of the 1907 Vic Mills team featuring a young Joe Jackson

[trambo]

Here are two of mine. Glad I got these when I did!!

[BeanTown]

Y’all have posted some awesome Joe Jackson items. Ive always loved Ryan’s Greenville Spinners Cabinet from 1908. Let’s face it, you can’t go wrong with any of his cards. Here is a RPPC which was made from the same photo shoot from the type 1 photo posted above.

[Rhotchkiss]

Jay, I was waiting for you to post, awesome!! Talk about rare… how about impossible

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Jay, I was waiting for you to post, awesome!! Talk about rare… how about impossible

+1 Agreed

Simply amazing and simply impossibly rare

[canjond]

Here’s one that hasn’t been posted. How about a Joe Jackson proof (uncut B18 missing color passes)

[Lorewalker]

I got nothing for you but a huge hats off to those who shared. Some incredible pieces that you simply do not see...EVER. Well done and thank you.

[robertsmithnocure]

Awesome Jackson items. Especially love seeing the W601 Sporting Life supplement and the Victor Mills RPPC.

[BeanTown]

Not sure what year this is. But a very nice action shot of Joe.

TY, for the the nice words on the other items posted.

[brunswickreeves]

These card and photo contributions are incredible!

I've updated and attached the POP Excel with what's been posted.

Another game card a Birthday present from my Mom

[Moonlight Graham]

The W514 is one of my favorites! But my gosh the rest of those cards/pieces are just insane!!!

Joe K

Shoeless 2.jpg

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by brunswickreeves

These card and photo contributions are incredible!

I've updated and attached the POP Excel with what's been posted.

I think your t210 pop is off. No way SGC has graded anywhere close to that many. I think there are like 13-15 combined between psa and SGC.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I think your t210 pop is off. No way SGC has graded anywhere close to that many. I think there are like 13-15 combined between psa and SGC.

Yes, something is definitely way off.

For example:

https://www.gosgc.com/pop-report/res...00%29/Baseball

Per that Excel POP report listing, SGC has graded 0 T200 Cleveland items, yet the SGC page in the link I provided shows they've actually graded 139 total.

The PSA total shown on the Excel report is right on the money though at 189 graded.

https://www.psacard.com/pop/baseball...ima-team/49246

[BobC]

Some more questionable figures:

First off, it should be 1914 B18 Blankets, and not B14 Blankets. And then, the Excel Pop Schedule shows only 2 ungraded Jacksons out there, that is it. PSA doesn't grade the B18 Blankets apparently, so showing 0 graded by them is correct. But for SGC, well here's their Pop Report for B18 Blankets, and looks like 46 graded, not the 0 shown on the Excel Pop Schedule.

https://www.gosgc.com/pop-report/res...nkets/Baseball

And as for Ryan's question on the T210 Jacksom Old Mill cards, I'm guessing there may be a mix-up and incorrect inclusion of different players also named Jackson, that appear in other Series of the T210 cards. IIRC, Joe Jackson appears in Series 8 only. Per PSA, they show a total of 9 graded T210 Joe Jackson cards, which agrees with the Excel Pop Schedule, while SGC appears to show a total of only 8 graded Joe Jackson cards, which definitely does not agree with the 67 shown per the Excel Pop Schedule.

https://www.psacard.com/pop/minor-le...series-8/81318

https://www.gosgc.com/pop-report/res...10%29/Baseball

These two examples, plus the earlier T200 cards, are the only three Joe Jackson cards I checked the graded numbers on between the actual PSA and SGC Pop Reports and the Excel Pop Schedule, and all three show major discrepancies. So, I'm not sure how accurate the rest of that Excel Pop Schedule actually is.

[BobC]

One Joe Jackson item that has not yet been shown in this thread, and added to the Excel Pop Schedule, is the 1916 BF2 Felt Pennants (Ferguson Bakery Pennants). Don't believe PSA grades these, while per SGC, they show a total of only 16 graded, though I know there are raw examples that exist out there as well.

https://www.gosgc.com/pop-report/res...akery/Baseball

[brunswickreeves]

Thanks very much for the cross reference and corrections. The T210 did throw me off because of the multiple Jacksons, and there are admittedly going to be some inadvertently overlooked. All documented POPs have come directly from the sites (used Grade, +, and Q), but there's always a chance of human error. The important thing is our community's great contributions and tweaks to get a full picture of Jacksons cards, which this thread is raising up and giving some unbridled joy by way of cards and photos shared. Attached is an updated version. Thanks Net54, keep 'em rolling in!

[Bugsy]

This is the only known example of this one...

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Bugsy

This is the only known example of this one...

Simply amazing eye appeal

Congrats on that piece

[TUM301]

WOW Bugs, being a huge Jackson fan can only say incredible piece. Enjoy that for a long time my man !

[LincolnVT]

And the 1914 CJ. About half the pop of the 1915 CJ issue.

[BeanTown]

That’s a great card Ethan. Thanks for posting