What is Ebay Playing At?

[hainesdp]

I know there have been threads about the so-called "Ebay Authentication" program before, so apologies.

I just really do not understand what / why Ebay has this program. As far as I can see, there is no value added.

I received my most recent purchase, a slabbed, PSA graded card today. The first thing I did was remove it from the Ebay holder thing, then remove the slab from sleave containing the Ebay "void if damaged" sticker. Does anyone not do this???

I guess my biggest annoyance with Ebay authentication is that PSA has already authenticated and graded the card. This is what PSA does. Ebay, not so much. It's just a waste of time.

Rant over.

[raulus]

My understanding is that some goons are faking slabs, or replacing cards with lesser graded pieces and resealing them. So this protects from that.

As a seller, it also prevents a buyer from claiming that you didn’t ship the right card and demanding a refund.

As a buyer, it prevents the seller from shipping garbage and claiming they shipped the $100,000 card that you actually purchased.

Assuming it’s done right (admittedly a big assumption), it should help to reduce goons from committing fraud.

[The Detroit Collector]

Originally Posted by raulus

My understanding is that some goons are faking slabs, or replacing cards with lesser graded pieces and resealing them. So this protects from that.

As a seller, it also prevents a buyer from claiming that you didn’t ship the right card and demanding a refund.

As a buyer, it prevents the seller from shipping garbage and claiming they shipped the $100,000 card that you actually purchased.

Assuming it’s done right (admittedly a big assumption), it should help to reduce goons from committing fraud.

99% of the time, pre slabbed stuff is legit, however there are people who fake slab cards. Don't think in terms of vintage, think in terms of modern cards. There has been a lot of issues over the last few years of duplicate 1/1s or cards with different patches, or fake jordans getting slabbed. etc.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by The Detroit Collector

99% of the time, pre slabbed stuff is legit, however there are people who fake slab cards. Don't think in terms of vintage, think in terms of modern cards. There has been a lot of issues over the last few years of duplicate 1/1s or cards with different patches, or fake jordans getting slabbed. etc.

Duplicate 1/1’s - the PSA authentication of the slab would not impact this. Panini screwing up again (or Topps) won’t lead to this being rejected by the PSA check of the slab.

Cards with different patches - if it’s slabbed, PSA is authenticating the slab not the card. If PSA screwed up again and slabbed a card with a swapped patch, it will pass the authentication.

Fake Jordan’s getting slabbed - PSA authenticates the slab is real for the graded card program; would not catch this. The raw version might, but not a fake slabbed Jordan.

[Snowman]

It also protects against all the clowns trying to pass off counterfeit (or recolored) Michael Jordan RCs as authentic.

But I wish there was a way to opt-out. It really is a completely pointless added cost for over 99% of transactions.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by hainesdp

I just really do not understand what / why Ebay has this program. As far as I can see, there is no value added.

Do you truly not see why they have it or the value? You've seen all the other threads, including the multiple ones where people stated that fake cards were intercepted, and still don't see why the program exists? C'mon.

I understand not liking the program but its purpose and value are obvious.

[The Detroit Collector]

Originally Posted by G1911

Duplicate 1/1’s - the PSA authentication of the slab would not impact this. Panini screwing up again (or Topps) won’t lead to this being rejected by the PSA check of the slab.

Cards with different patches - if it’s slabbed, PSA is authenticating the slab not the card. If PSA screwed up again and slabbed a card with a swapped patch, it will pass the authentication.

Fake Jordan’s getting slabbed - PSA authenticates the slab is real for the graded card program; would not catch this. The raw version might, but not a fake slabbed Jordan.

The point I was making was there are individuals who fake slab these cards. Meaning PSA never even gets their eyes on them.

[Exhibitman]

I've come around to seeing the program as useful in two ways:

1. As I reported in my blog last weekend, at the Anaheim show a friend of mine who was set up to sell bought a 1963 Topps high grade Pete Rose RC in a PSA holder from a walk-in, and showed it to me. I took a quick look, and something seemed off. On closer inspection, the card looked wrong, too fuzzy, and muddy. I busted out the 30x loupe and 100x microscope I bring with me to shows and confirmed my suspicion. It turns out we had a scumbag walking the show selling fake high value PSA graded cards. The Rose was bogus, and the PSA slab was resealed with glue. It wasn’t a great fake, but it didn’t have to be, because my friend was busy with customers and trusted the PSA slab rather than inspecting the card carefully. My friend was very lucky that day. He went off in search of the fraudster, found him, and got a refund. if you get stuck with one of these on eBay my hunch is that you won't be so lucky.

2. It is a good negative check on whether to transact with a dealer. One guy sells lots of trimmed raw cards. I saw a hacked Hubbell RC last week in his store sell for good money. Someone got ripped off. He avoids the authentication process by tossing in a junk single or two to make it a lot. I see that and I know not to bother with the dealer.

[Johnny T]

I purchased a 1969 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 5 at the National in Atlantic City last year. Beautiful card. However, when I went to put it in the registry, PSA said the card didn't exist. Bottom line is that a trimmed card was put in a PSA slab and my card is worth 1/4 of what I paid for it...if that. Had the same card been purchased on ebay and sent to the "Authenticators", I would have been saved. Now I know to check the cert before I purchase, so lesson learned.

I agree it's a bit of a pain in the arse...but worth the wait and aggravation especially since it doesn't cost anything more to have. JT

[judsonhamlin]

I’m no eBay fan but because I knew that the program was out there, I bid on and won an older card that I might not have otherwise. Raw card, experienced seller (but not necessarily in 19th Century items), not the most accurate description but a decent scan. There were other bidders/watchers and I was surprised my bid won - kind of low but not a dollar. It might be the first time I bid knowing that there was the fail safe review on a ‘no returns’ seller. The card was rejected so I feel like the system actually kind of worked.

[JCM2009]

I see very little value in the Ebay Authenticator service, but this service could be Ebay's first step into grading cards themselves. They can provide the Vault and Authenticator service and tie it to the Collection beta platform. The last step is providing grading services themselves. They certainly have the capital to build the infrastructure themselves. Ebay may already be developing some sort of AI service offering to grade and authenticate cards themselves. And with PSA dropping the ball in grading turnaround and accuracy, Ebay sees the opportunity for a major player in the grading space. Afterall, if Ebay is guaranteeing the authenticity of the cards that are sold on their platform, they might as well be the grader themselves. Why assume the risk of guaranteeing someone else's grading holders or authenticity?

I would also think Fanatics is developing the same full-service grading service. Too much $$$ to in this market and the other grading services are no match for the Ebay behemoth. Just my thoughts......

[raulus]

Originally Posted by JCM2009

I see very little value in the Ebay Authenticator service, but this service could be Ebay's first step into grading cards themselves. They can provide the Vault and Authenticator service and tie it to the Collection beta platform. The last step is providing grading services themselves. They certainly have the capital to build the infrastructure themselves. Ebay may already be developing some sort of AI service offering to grade and authenticate cards themselves. And with PSA dropping the ball in grading turnaround and accuracy, Ebay sees the opportunity for a major player in the grading space. Afterall, if Ebay is guaranteeing the authenticity of the cards that are sold on their platform, they might as well be the grader themselves. Why assume the risk of guaranteeing someone else's grading holders or authenticity?

I would also think Fanatics is developing the same full-service grading service. Too much $$$ to in this market and the other grading services are no match for the Ebay behemoth. Just my thoughts......

I don’t disagree with you, except at the moment, eBay is subcontracting for the actual authentication work. If they brought it in-house, then starting their own grading shop would be the logical next step.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by JCM2009

I see very little value in the Ebay Authenticator service, but this service could be Ebay's first step into grading cards themselves. They can provide the Vault and Authenticator service and tie it to the Collection beta platform. The last step is providing grading services themselves. They certainly have the capital to build the infrastructure themselves. Ebay may already be developing some sort of AI service offering to grade and authenticate cards themselves. And with PSA dropping the ball in grading turnaround and accuracy, Ebay sees the opportunity for a major player in the grading space. Afterall, if Ebay is guaranteeing the authenticity of the cards that are sold on their platform, they might as well be the grader themselves. Why assume the risk of guaranteeing someone else's grading holders or authenticity?

I would also think Fanatics is developing the same full-service grading service. Too much $$$ to in this market and the other grading services are no match for the Ebay behemoth. Just my thoughts......

Ah yes, eBay is going to start grading cards soon! LMAO

[Jewish-collector]

Dale - The short version is that this is an unregulated industry, so ebay is trying to help both buyers & sellers.

I'll see you at the Chantilly show in a few weeks. beer chug.gif

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by JCM2009

I would also think Fanatics is developing the same full-service grading service. .

I've already seen some slabbed Fanatics cards out there

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by JCM2009

I see very little value in the Ebay Authenticator service, but this service could be Ebay's first step into grading cards themselves...

That’s a pretty scary thought the way things are right now.

I see no actual problems with the eBay authentication service, though I would agree that for the large majority of items for us as vintage collectors, it’s probably a waste of time. The problem to me however is with the credibility of eBay themselves. This is an outfit that has never bothered in 25+ years now to gain competency at the categories they manage. You want eBay to start slabbing cards when they still think it’s ok to market ‘91 Fleer Jose Uribe cards to me for thousands of dollars in my Facebook feed? No thanks.

eBay could choose to hire more people (experts) to police this kind of thing themselves within their categories, but apparently it’s cheaper to setup programs to hire 3rd (4th?) party authenticators to re-authenticate already slabbed items - the overwhelming majority of which are legit.

Er, ok.


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[Flintboy]

That’s what we need, another grading company!!!!!!

[jh691626]

I'm less worried that eBay will grade cards, and more worried that they will start charging for this authentication service (probably sellers). I thought I saw something near the start of this whole rodeo that said that the service was "currently free." Emphasis on...currently.

[CardPadre]

Originally Posted by jh691626

I'm less worried that eBay will grade cards, and more worried that they will start charging for this authentication service (probably sellers). I thought I saw something near the start of this whole rodeo that said that the service was "currently free." Emphasis on...currently.

That’s definitely something people have always thought might be coming. But maybe the amount they spend on Authenticity Guarantee services is less than what they were paying out for fraud that’s now being prevented and it’s already a financial positive for them…who knows.

[RhodeyRhode]

It would be great if it stuck to what it was there for. However seems like they overstep their reach, such as rejecting authentic cards for a scratch on slab etc etc. Almost like they have a quota to reject a certain percentage

[Snapolit1]

Ebay is well aware the counterfeiting is a major risk to their business model. They have been authenticating sneakers and handbags for some time, and have discussed moving into other areas. Has nothing to do with them wanting to move into the grading business.

[glynparson]

Originally Posted by The Detroit Collector

99% of the time, pre slabbed stuff is legit, however there are people who fake slab cards. Don't think in terms of vintage, think in terms of modern cards. There has been a lot of issues over the last few years of duplicate 1/1s or cards with different patches, or fake jordans getting slabbed. etc.

There are vintage fake slabs too.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by RhodeyRhode

It would be great if it stuck to what it was there for. However seems like they overstep their reach, such as rejecting authentic cards for a scratch on slab etc etc. Almost like they have a quota to reject a certain percentage

eBay has no desire to over-reject cards. These sorts of issues are certainly the exception, and they will get worked out. They definitely do not have a quota to meet. They're simply trying to protect buyers against counterfeit cards and cards that have been clearly and intentionally misrepresented by the sellers.

Also, zero chance that eBay starts grading cards.

[Cozumeleno]

Originally Posted by raulus

My understanding is that some goons are faking slabs, or replacing cards with lesser graded pieces and resealing them. So this protects from that.

As a seller, it also prevents a buyer from claiming that you didn’t ship the right card and demanding a refund.

As a buyer, it prevents the seller from shipping garbage and claiming they shipped the $100,000 card that you actually purchased.

Assuming it’s done right (admittedly a big assumption), it should help to reduce goons from committing fraud.

Agree completely with this. If I bought a $10,000 graded card, I'd love for it to go through that program -- yes, for the authentication piece, but also to ensure I wasn't getting a Randy Johnson 1989 Topps card shipped to me. It provides protection when you buy from sellers you don't know. And as mentioned, it protects legitimate sellers from scam artist buyers.

The one thing I'd change is that it would be nice if the buyer could decline the service at their discretion -- at least for graded cards. If I buy a PSA-graded $300 card from a dealer I know, the risk is pretty minimal. I would love the option to bypass the authentication on a card already slabbed by PSA or whatever. At least stuff up to like $1,000 or something.

The program is useful. I just wish there was an opt-out option as a buyer. The majority of my purchases there come from people I already know or have bought from and trust.

[Leon]

In the last few week I alerted an ebayer about a fake T206 Speaker they had for sale. This thing had the whole coffee grinder sit on it apparently. A very bad fake with all the crackles and everthing. I emailed the seller, who was out of his niche, and told him. He emailed and asked how I knew and I told him.
A few days ago I get this message.

"Well, the Speaker card sold and you were correct, it didn't pass inspection. Quite honestly, I have never seen a more real looking imitation in all my life. Then again I haven't seen many 1909 cards either. That was just a loner in this massive collection I've gotten myself into. I buy estate buy outs but this buy out was more of a hobbiest's extreme where the entire half section of the lower house was dedicated to sports cards and rightly dubbed Little Cooperstown. To mine and my colleagues estimations there are a million cards here give out take a few. I've gotten in over my head and they're actually taking over. These are mostly high end 90's though 2000's of Finest, EX, SP, Pristine, Chrome, Elite, SPX, Gallery, Brilliants. You name it from that era and it's most likely here. I've always been a collector of sorts but I've got a business to run and what I've got now is more than just a hobby, it's closer to a life-style. Need it gone if you or anyone you know might be interested."



so the program definitely has it's pluses.
.

[joetinkerfan]

I would also add that the program only works if the Ebay seller actually sends the cards through the program. I've acquired at least two cards over the last few months that were labeled to go through the program but were just mailed directly to me. There was no additional documentation with the card only the card. One of the cards was graded and one was raw. I should also add that my level of concern about them being fake was low as the sellers are very trusted in the Ebay world.