If one and only one Honus Wagner… $10-15k budget

[Belfast1933]

I would love to get a current take from members here regarding which Honus Wagner card would YOU want if you had $10-15k budget?

My own criteria includes:

1. Looks like him! Honestly, too many pre war cards are nice but they often don’t really even resemble the player.

2. Rarity really isn’t a big deal for me.

3. Somewhat “liquid” so my kids wouldn’t have a hard time selling down the road

Love to hear your thoughts!

Thx,

Jeff

[sycks22]

I've always loved the D322 Tip Top Bread Wagner. Same picture as the T206 and won't cost you 6 figures. Rare enough that it'll continue to go up in value.

[Casey2296]

1914-1915 Cracker Jack

[Belfast1933]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

1914-1915 Cracker Jack

Oh man… I love CJ cards! Good idea

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by sycks22

I've always loved the D322 Tip Top Bread Wagner. Same picture as the T206 and won't cost you 6 figures. Rare enough that it'll continue to go up in value.

Me too. I believe it is the closest to a T206 you can get. I know some will argue E90-2, E104-2, or E103 instead but they lack the same color scheme. The only problem I see with this pick is I'm not sure $10-15k is going to get you one unless it is an absolute beater. I know I wouldn't sell mine for anywhere close to that at this point.

[Econteachert205]

M116 pastel

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

We have an E90-1 Wagner Batting coming up in our May Pre War auction with a gorgeous front but paper loss on the back. Brutally tough card to find, but the grade (it's at SGC right now) will likely make it under your price range or at the bottom of it at most. Definitely looks like him, and a very short printed card with a cool image, great colors and a popular set.

[Touch'EmAll]

Colgan's Chip. Same photo as T206, heckuva lot cheaper.

[bnorth]

E90-2 would be my pick. I actually like it way more than the T206.

[brunswickreeves]

The 1910 W-UNC Wagner is actually the other right facing T206 color image in addition to the 1910 Tip Top Bread. W-UNC has a total POP of only 7 graded cards, vs 64 total POP for the 1910 Tip Top Bread issue.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

We have an E90-1 Wagner Batting coming up in our May Pre War auction with a gorgeous front but paper loss on the back. Brutally tough card to find, but the grade (it's at SGC right now) will likely make it under your price range or at the bottom of it at most. Definitely looks like him, and a very short printed card with a cool image, great colors and a popular set.

I thought this pose was significantly easier than the e90-1 throwing?

[Rhotchkiss]

Anything with a portrait. D322 is great bc it’s literally the t206 pic, as is the W600 type 4. E103, E90-2, E104-2 (if you can find one), and the M116 sporting lifes (preferably blue).

Cracker Jacks are awesome, but it’s a later year, it’s a side pic ahd a terrible pic.

Wagner is most famous for his t206. Whatever most resembles that is what you should get.

[hcv123]

Tip top, 1914 CJ and E90-2 are great cards, but don't think you'll find nice eye-appeal examples in your budget


1915 Cracker Jack or

E92 batting would be my thoughts

[jimq16415]

If I remember right somebody was organizing a group break a while ago of an M116 set and the Wagner was good looking and graded maybe a 2 or 3. If you can find out if that break ever happened, the card might be available and affordable. It might be long gone, but it was a portrait card, and I think the blue background. The grade was because of some paper loss on back. If it's not available sorry to waste your time/

[Yoda]

A E103 Wags might be doable for your budget. Scarce, fragile and expensive but a beautiful rendition.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by Touch'EmAll

Colgan's Chip. Same photo as T206, heckuva lot cheaper.

That’s a beauty.

I like the square proof version myself.

[doug.goodman]

I would aim at one of the first m113 issues...

Or, maybe an m101...

Or, the Blum's bulletin

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Anything with a portrait. D322 is great bc it’s literally the t206 pic, as is the W600 type 4. E103, E90-2, E104-2 (if you can find one), and the M116 sporting lifes (preferably blue).

Cracker Jacks are awesome, but it’s a later year, it’s a side pic ahd a terrible pic.

Wagner is most famous for his t206. Whatever most resembles that is what you should get.

This would be my take as well, 100%. Any example with the iconic Horner portrait will age well in your collection. People recognize the T206, and most of those will recognize the image on other issues. E90-2/E104-2 are great and as already mentioned the D322 is the closest to a T206 (same image direction, similar color). That said, the M116 would probably be the most doable in your price range. I also prefer blue, but the pastel is a great looking card too and a nice value.
M116 Hans Wagner Blue enhanced (2).jpg

If you're not married to his portrait, I love the E95 (and E94). You don't get a great shot of his face, but it's such a great image and so very identifiable as him. Also very doable in your price range.
E95 Honus Wagner (2).jpg

[brunswickreeves]

Below is a Wagner card analysis (not all inclusive) with each card's Total POP to help in your quest. Those highlighted in gray depict Wagner's original right facing T206 portrait in black & white. Those highlighted in yellow depict Wagner's T206 portrait in color but transposed to be left facing. And those highlighted in orange are the mirror images of Wagner's right facing T206 portrait and also in color like his T206 card.

[DeanH3]

My vote is either M116 version. You’d get a nicer pastel. Really gets the nicest eye appeal version you can within your budget. Can’t go wrong. Good luck!

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by DeanH3

My vote is either M116 version. You’d get a nicer pastel. Really gets the nicest eye appeal version you can within your budget. Can’t go wrong. Good luck!

+1 agree

Your you can get a 1916 M101/4 with some interesting ad backs

[Belfast1933]

Thanks, all… I am very grateful for all of your thoughtful input! (I am a little challenged by the set names/#’s but am able to look them all up on VCP so that’s all good!)

Jeff

[Ronincards614]

I know it's under budget, but I love the Colgan's Chips Honus Wagner.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I thought this pose was significantly easier than the e90-1 throwing?

It absolutely is, but both are very short prints. PSA has 177 graded Cobbs but only 54 total Wagners, 17 throwing and 37 batting. SGC has graded 171 Cobbs and 76 Wagners, 30 throwing and 46 batting. Not sure where the e90-1 numbers come from on the big chart posted above, but I get a total of 348 Cobbs, 130 Wagners, 47 Throwing, and 83 batting.

I use Cobb as the point of comparison under the supposition that these cards would be graded at roughly the same rate. The combined Wagner total is behind EVERY HOF'er total(Combined totals in the case of someone like Keeler) So I would argue that both poses are brutally tough. with combined only about 35% of the total of a Cobb and less than 50% the total of most HOF'ers

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I thought this pose was significantly easier than the e90-1 throwing?

In my experience, and I have been collecting Wagner for a while, the batting pose is generally more common than the trowing pose in all back variations, but still many batting poses are still tough to find. E90-1 is an example of this, on a relative basis. For such a large and widely distributed set, I find that both Wagner poses are oddly difficult in e90-1, with throwing being the more difficult if the two. Throwing is downright scarce (probably on par with Speaker). But even the batting pose is much tougher to find than other big names of the set, such as Cobb, Mathewson, Young (Boston), and Jackson

[theshowandme]

I am incredibly bias to this one

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

It absolutely is, but both are very short prints. PSA has 177 graded Cobbs but only 54 total Wagners, 17 throwing and 37 batting. SGC has graded 171 Cobbs and 76 Wagners, 30 throwing and 46 batting. Not sure where the e90-1 numbers come from on the big chart posted above, but I get a total of 348 Cobbs, 130 Wagners, 47 Throwing, and 83 batting.

I use Cobb as the point of comparison under the supposition that these cards would be graded at roughly the same rate. The combined Wagner total is behind EVERY HOF'er total(Combined totals in the case of someone like Keeler) So I would argue that both poses are brutally tough. with combined only about 35% of the total of a Cobb and less than 50% the total of most HOF'ers

kinda what i thought...thx for confirmation. Wonder why there re so fewer hanses than cobbs in similar issues????? Could it be related to the tobacco theory somehow???? Or lack of compensation???

[brunswickreeves]

Regarding the e90-1 POP, I may have calc'd wrong but when I ran this a couple mos ago, I saw 61 on PSA (44 batting, 17 throwing) and 80 on SGC (46 batting, 30 throwing, 4 not defined), for a total of 141 (90 batting, 47 throwing, 4 not defined). I love the Cobb comparison analysis, indeed points to fact that the e90-1 is a relatively very scarce issue and highly valuable.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by brunswickreeves

Regarding the e90-1 POP, I may have calc'd wrong but when I ran this a couple mos ago, I saw 61 on PSA (44 batting, 17 throwing) and 80 on SGC (46 batting, 30 throwing, 4 not defined), for a total of 141 (90 batting, 47 throwing, 4 not defined). I love the Cobb comparison analysis, indeed points to fact that the e90-1 is a relatively very scarce issue and highly valuable.

Most our numbers are similar. I think I missed the 4 undefined, and my PSA number for batting is 7 lower than yours.

[packs]

The T206 pose is so iconic but out of reach. I’ve always wanted an E90-2.

[mrreality68]

REA has some nice Wagners

[tbob]

The M116 Sporting Life Wagner for best portrait, the E94 George Close for best non-portrait card.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by tbob

The M116 Sporting Life Wagner for best portrait, the E94 George Close for best non-portrait card.

Beautiful card Bob.

[Leon]

I wonder if Wags had anything to do with his card being more scarce in E90-1?

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

In my experience, and I have been collecting Wagner for a while, the batting pose is generally more common than the trowing pose in all back variations, but still many batting poses are still tough to find. E90-1 is an example of this, on a relative basis. For such a large and widely distributed set, I find that both Wagner poses are oddly difficult in e90-1, with throwing being the more difficult if the two. Throwing is downright scarce (probably on par with Speaker). But even the batting pose is much tougher to find than other big names of the set, such as Cobb, Mathewson, Young (Boston), and Jackson

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Leon

I wonder if Wags had anything to do with his card being more scarce in E90-1?

Maybe, but I doubt it. I think his beef (if there was one) was with ATC and tobacco generally, but who knows.

There are some cards, like the Speaker, which are much rarer than others. Maybe the Speaker was printed later in the overall production. Maybe the Wagner throwing was too.

OR, maybe it was because Wagner was part of the E90-2 set commemorating the World Series champ and maybe they pulled his E90-1 cards because they were a different pose. I wonder if other Pirates who are in the E90-2 set are also rarer in the E90-1 set.

I am sure we have some E90-1 experts. This topic is probably worthy of a different/separate thread. Maybe I will create one, because its a very good question

[ullmandds]

Since I no longer have a portrait which would be my preference, I prefer the E 95!

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by brunswickreeves

Below is a Wagner card analysis (not all inclusive) with each card's Total POP to help in your quest. Those highlighted in gray depict Wagner's original right facing T206 portrait in black & white. Those highlighted in yellow depict Wagner's T206 portrait in color but transposed to be left facing. And those highlighted in orange are the mirror images of Wagner's right facing T206 portrait and also in color like his T206 card.

Was the E98 issue overlooked? Never mind; I see it is "not all inclusive."

[Exhibitman]

Colgan’s for me. It’s the portrait. Or if you can find it, the Max Stein PC. Or the Pinkerton scorecard.

[glchen]

Not sure you can get it for under $15K, but my vote would be a low grade (but with nice eye appeal) Rose postcard Wagner.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by glchen

Not sure you can get it for under $15K, but my vote would be a low grade (but with nice eye appeal) Rose postcard Wagner.

Great choice
Hard to get as they do not come up that often

[Rhotchkiss]

1. Jeff, that Rose Co is the bee’s knees
2. No chance of getting any Wagner Rose Co under $15k at this point- that ship has sailed. But the point remains- get something with a Wagner portrait. If not, the PC796 Wagner is a great card- REA has one (not mine); I think it’s much better likeness than the E95

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

1. Jeff, that Rose Co is the bee’s knees
2. No chance of getting any Wagner Rose Co under $15k at this point- that ship has sailed. But the point remains- get something with a Wagner portrait. If not, the PC796 Wagner is a great card- REA has one (not mine); I think it’s much better likeness than the E95

In addition to some of the other cards mentioned earlier like the M101-4 and M116, I also like the PC796 Sepia and PC805 Novelty Cutlery postcards of Wagner.

They both share the same image, but I personally prefer the border of the Novelty Cutlery (image stolen from the interwebs).

[Leon]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Great choice
Hard to get as they do not come up that often

I will take that for 15k ! Great looking card....

.

[mordecaibrown1]

M116 are in that price range as SGC 3.0 pastel sold at Heritage for $13K.

[clydepepper]

As rare as the T206 is, I'd go for the Allegheny Wagner - a true 1-of-1.

Gotta find it first.

I had the Matty from that test set, but sold it...


But, I really like the M116 Sporting Life too.



.

[robertsmithnocure]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

As rare as the T206 is, I'd go for the Allegheny Wagner - a true 1-of-1.

Gotta find it first.

Great card, but I do not think that the Allegheny Wagner would work with his $10K to $15K budget.

[BeanTown]

Here ya go…. Under 15k and only upside on it.