1965 Topps Series 6 semi-high Sheet Reconstruction

[Kevvyg1026]

Series 6 from 1965 had 77 cards in the series, so SPs exist. Reconstruction of the slits will be exceptionally difficult because significant miscuts are scarce. However, there are some available, so I am trying anyway.

Here is some additional information in case anyone wants to chime in.

From what I can tell, Topps used the following pattern for the locations of the checklists in each series:

Check 1 (both versions) were in C11
Check 2 was always in C2 (both 1st & 2nd series printing)
Check 3 was always in C11 (both 2nd & 3ed series printing)
Check 4 was always in C2 (both 3rd & 4th series printing)
Check 5 was always in C11 (both 4th & 5th series printing)
Check 6 was in C2 (5th series printing)
Check 7 was in C11 (7th series)

So, I would expect Series 6 (# 443) to be in Col 2 while Series 7 (508) to be in Col 11 for the 6th series printing.

I think the series 6 (443) printing variation has the nearly complete m in #481 (series 5 printing of 443 has the mostly cut off m). The series 6 printing of series 7 checklist (508) should be the larger print version.

And here are a couple of miscuts, offered as a tease.

1965_451_MC.jpg

1965_482_Priddy_above_Owens.jpg

1965_485_Fox_bottom_edge.jpg

1965_Banks_V475_510.jpg

[Kevvyg1026]

As can be seen, Boyer is most likely above two different cards, Banks and another with a black border.

Topps did use a team-related coloring scheme in 1965 for the borders.

[Cliff Bowman]

I didn't know JollyElm (Darren) had a horizontally severe miscut 1965 Topps 6th Series Ernie Banks, the card to the left of Banks is Gene Freese who is definitely a 3x because of his low quantities on eBay and elsewhere. That makes the 1965 Ernie Banks a SP (3x). It will be nearly impossible to ever figure out the 1965 6th Series 77 card layout but it would be nice to at least figure out if the key cards (Carlton, Banks, Mathews) are 3x or 4x.

[Kevvyg1026]

Here is 453, Dodgers RS, next to 506, Mele

1965_453-506.jpg

[JollyElm]

I don't believe I was even aware of this thread, but wouldn't have been much help anyway, because I forgot I had that Banks miscut in an album page somewhere.

It's cool that you found it and it helps a bit with the sheet layout mystery.
(If it wasn't for you meddling kids, Topps would've gotten away with it!!)

[Cliff Bowman]

#486 Angels Rookie Stars has a dark green border card to its left which means that is has to be a Brave or a Red Sox card. In the 1965 6th Series there are Geiger, Braves Rookie Stars (Niekro), O'Dell, Woodward, Ritchie, E Mathews, Red Sox Rookie Star (Guindon), and Cloninger. The card to the left of the #486 Angels Rookie Stars miscut has a design flaw where the white bio/stat box has the white jutting out in the bottom left corner. I checked all eight cards and all Cloninger cards have the same design flaw, none of the other seven cards have the design flaw. That means there is a sequence of Nellie Fox-Tony Cloninger-Angels Rookie Stars on one of the 4x rows.

[Cliff Bowman]

#477 Cardinals Rookie Stars (Steve Carlton) has Manny Mota to its left, since #463 Manny Mota is definitely a 4x because of its quantities on eBay and elsewhere that makes #477 Cardinals Rookie Stars a 4x as I suspected because of its quantities available. That means of the three 1965 6th Series key cards, Ernie Banks is a 3x, Cardinals Rookie Stars is a 4x, and Eddie Mathews is very likely a 3x although it isn't confirmed yet. ETA of the other two key cards, Yogi Berra’s last card and Phil Niekro’s second year card, I am pretty sure Berra is a 3x and Niekro is a 4x.

[Elberson]

Here a miscut 450 Howard and ?, if that helps?

[Kevvyg1026]

Elston Howard is a card in C1; the miscut shown is almost certainly Joel Horlen, so Horlen is also one of the 7 C1 cards. Howard is also at the top edge of one slit.

The wrong back currently posted on ebay of Niekro (461) make that card a C11 card.

[bb66]

Great info guys-thanks-really appreciate!!!!

[Cliff Bowman]

Joe Cunningham is to the left of Vern Law on a 4x row, Sammy Ellis is to the left of Ron Piche on a 4x row, and I couldn't get anything to match that black ink spot on the Ritchie, it might just be a stray mark.

[Cliff Bowman]

Kevin found this miscut, Ed Rakow is to the left of Sam Mele on a 4x row. ETA this makes a three card run of Rakow-Mele-Dodgers Rookie Stars on a 4x row.

[Cliff Bowman]

I figured out who that is to the right of Jay Ritchie, the tip of the glove in Bill Henry' cartoon fits perfectly. That means there is a Ritchie-Henry combo on one of the 3x rows.

[Kevvyg1026]

I think Dodgers RS is a RE card, so that would put these cards in columns 9, 10, & 11

[Cliff Bowman]

Bob Kennedy is to the left of Cookie Rojas on a 3x row.

[Cliff Bowman]

I have changed my mind on the 1965 Topps 6th Series, the availability of horizontal miscuts makes this Series viable. Manny Mota is to the right of Joel Horlen so that makes the first three cards of a 4x row Horlen-Mota-Cardinals Rookie Stars (Steve Carlton).

[Cliff Bowman]

Ron Perranoski is to the left of Tom Haller on a 3x row.

[Cliff Bowman]

Lee Stange is to the left of Billy O'Dell on a 4x row.

[Cliff Bowman]

This was an easy one, Ken Rowe is to the right of Ron Piche which makes a three card run of Ellis-Piche-Rowe on a 4x row.

[Cliff Bowman]

I don't think this one has been mentioned on this thread, the Yankees Team card is to the left of Gene Stephens on a 4x row. Stephens also has an Athletic/Cardinal to his right that is either Ken Harrelson or Phil Gagliano, they are both 4x.

[Cliff Bowman]

Angels Rookie Stars (Schaal) is above Phil Gagliano, both are on 4x rows.

[Cliff Bowman]

Stu Miller is a header (LE) card, that means six of the seven header cards are known, Bob Priddy, Ed Mathews, Elston Howard, Stu Miller are the four 3x header cards, Jim Owens, Joel Horlen, and the card under Mathews in the miscut are the three 4x header cards. I believe I have the third 4x header card down to either Nellie Fox or Indians Rookie Stars through the process of elimination.

[Cliff Bowman]

Here's a cool combo, Ernie Banks is to the left of Yogi Berra. The back designer made the Y in Yogi too big (which I'm glad they did) and it shows up on 1965 Ernie Banks cards miscut to the right. That makes a three card run of Gene Freese-Ernie Banks-Yogi Berra on a 3x row.

[Cliff Bowman]

Phil Gagliano is above Richie Allen somewhere over the two Slits, Gagliano is on a 4x row and Allen is on a 3x row. It is probable but not guaranteed that there is a combo of

Angels Rookie Stars (Schaal)
Gagliano
R Allen

in a vertical column.

[Cliff Bowman]

Ron Locke is to the left of Sammy Ellis and Gary Geiger is to the left of Ron Locke, so that makes a five card run of Geiger-Locke-Ellis-Piche-Rowe on a 4x row. First, Locke is to the left of Ellis through the lines on the Ellis cartoon that show up on miscut Locke cards. Second, Geiger is to the left of Locke because the Brave/Red Sox card to the left of Locke on the miscut has to be a 4x card and Geiger and Billy O'Dell are the only two still available and it can't be O'Dell because every one of his cards has a flaw of a piece of the E in PRINTED in the copyright line on the back missing, the E on the Locke miscut is complete so it has to be Geiger.

[Cliff Bowman]

This one messes up my count of what I had as the 33 4x cards in the Series because I thought John Buzhardt was likely a 4x, but he is the only card that matches up to this Tracy Stallard miscut. That means at least one card I have as a 3x is actually a 4x, I also have Earl Battey and Cap Peterson as 4x cards but their quantities are in the questionable range. The Tracy Stallard-John Buzhardt combo is on one of the 3x rows.

[Cliff Bowman]

I'm just about out of new combos until I find more, the card to the left of Ed Rakow is a 4x Brave/Red Sox card and Billy O'Dell is the only one left. All O'Dell cards have a design print flaw where the white bio box bulges out in the lower left area that matches the Rakow miscut. That makes a run of Stange-O'Dell-Rakow-Mele-Dodgers Rookie Stars in C7-C11 of a 4x row.

[Cliff Bowman]

Here's an interesting one, the card to the right of Rowe is an Oriole/Astro, the Orioles and Astros are Rowe, Grote, Owens, Siebern, Nottebart, Orioles Rookie Stars, Stu Miller, and Nellie Fox. The only 4x cards out of those eight are Rowe, Owens, and Fox, it obviously can't be Rowe and Owens is a header card, so that means it has to be Fox. That makes a big run of Geiger-Locke-Ellis-Piche-Rowe-Fox-Cloninger-Angels Rookie Stars (Egan) on a 4x row. This would also eliminate Nellie Fox from being the seventh header card. ETA I have since figured out that cannot be Nellie Fox to the right of Ken Rowe so that eight card run cannot be correct.

[Cliff Bowman]

These are in the oh-so-close category, 4x Frank Kostro has either Ken Harrelson, Cardinals Rookie Stars, or Phil Gagliano to his left, 4x Jim Owens has either the Yankees Team card, Ken Harrelson, or Phil Gagliano to his right, 4x Gene Stephens has either Phil Gagliano or Ken Harrelson to his right, 3x Ray Washburn has either Al Weis or Ron Perranoski to his right.

[Cliff Bowman]

It is Ken Harrelson to the left of Frank Kostro on a 4x row.

[Cliff Bowman]

With this miscut Nellie Fox I found I am obviously wrong about Ken Rowe being to the left of Nellie Fox, it appears to be a black border card to the left of Fox. I don't know who that could be to the right of Rowe, the 4x cards of Fox and Owens are not available. The only thing I can come up with is Jerry Grote is a 4x with inexplicable low quantities, hopefully it is eventually figured out. If that's a black border card to the left of Fox then it can still be Cardinals Rookie Stars, Gagliano, or Harrelson.

[Cliff Bowman]

I had to go deep in the weeds to find these next two, I have pretty much exhausted every source I can think of and will have to wait for new miscuts to pop up. I am confident Gene Mauch is to the right of Larry Brown on a 3x row, the only other card anywhere close is Bob Kennedy but Mauch matches up nearly perfectly.

[Cliff Bowman]

Joe Christopher is to the left of George Smith on a 3x row, The tip of the clown hat from the George Smith cartoon is on the Joe Christopher miscut.

[Cliff Bowman]

I found a better scan of a Nellie Fox miscut to the left, he actually has a Twin/Giant to his left on a 4x row which could currently be Frank Kostro, Earl Battey, or Cap Peterson.

[Cliff Bowman]

I am making another run through COMC to see if there are any I missed and I spotted this Clete Boyer which took a while to figure out. I finally matched it up to Richie Allen which is a good one because it links up quite a few cards in different columns. Boyer has two different cards under him but one scenario goes

**?** - **?** - Angels Rookie Stars (Schaal)
**?** - **?** - Gagliano
**?** - CBoyer -Allen
Freese - Banks - Berra

The Angels Rookie Stars (Schaal) is on a 4x row, Gagliano is on a 4x row, C Boyer-R Allen are on a 3x row, Freese-Banks-Berra are on a 3x row. The unknown black border card under Boyer is likely on a 4x row.

[Cliff Bowman]

Hopefully these will eventually be pinned down to a certain card but right now there are way too many possibilities, Aguirre is above a Pirate/Yankee, Cardinals Rookie Stars is above an Indian/Phillie, Culp is under a Dodger/White Sox and is to the right of a Angel/Red, Indians Rookie Stars is above a Astro/Oriole, Nottebart is to the right of (I think) a Brave/Red Sox, Phillies Rookie Stars is to the left of (I think) a Met/Senator, Rakow is above a Dodger/White Sox, Rowe is above a Met/Senator, Uecker is under a Pirate/Yankee and above a Angel/Red, the Yankees Team card is above a Athletic/Cardinal.

[Kevvyg1026]

Here is a mc of Owens, 451, with a tinge of red at the top. I think that means that Howard, 450, is above both Horlen 480, and Owens, 451.

And we also know that Priddy is above Owens (482 above 451).

1965_451_top_red.jpg

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Kevvyg1026

Here is a mc of Owens, 451, with a tinge of red at the top. I think that means that Howard, 450, is above both Horlen 480, and Owens, 451.

And we also know that Priddy is above Owens (482 above 451).

Attachment 630434

Jim Owens also has Joel Horlen above him which explains the 4x cards that have a 4x card above or below them.

[Cliff Bowman]

The black border card to the right of Jim Owens has to be Ken Harrelson through the process of elimination, of the nine 1965 5th Series black border cards four of them are 4x. They are Phil Gagliano, Yankees Team card, Cardinals Rookie Stars, and Ken Harrelson. Gagliano is eliminated because he has Richie Allen under him and Allen has C Boyer to his left, that means Gagliano cannot be in a C2 column. The Yankees Team card has NEW YORK YANKEES - 1964 printed higher than the baseball on the back of the card which means it would be showing on the back of the Owens miscut. Cardinals Rookie Stars has Manny Mota to its' left. That means it has to be Ken Harrelson, so the first three cards of a 4x row are Jim Owens-Ken Harrelson-Frank Kostro. This also puts the first three cards of the Horlen row above the first three cards of the Owens row one time on each slit.

Horlen-Mota-Cardinals Rookie Stars
Owens-Harrelson-Kostro

[Cliff Bowman]

Trying to reconstruct this series is like trying to put a 132 piece jigsaw puzzle together with over half of the pieces missing, but here are two that fit together, 4x Sammy Ellis is above 3x Cookie Rojas somewhere over the two slits.

[Kevvyg1026]

left of Angels RS

Angels_RS_left.jpg

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Kevvyg1026

left of Angels RS

Attachment 651419

I have Tony Cloninger to the left of this Angels Rookie Stars card in post #6. I have looked everywhere I could think of and the supply of miscuts on this series has completely dried up. This is going to be much more difficult than the 1966 6th Series.

[Cliff Bowman]

A couple of new ones from the wasteland of 1965 Topps 6th Series. Don Pavletich is to the right of Clete Boyer so I was wrong about it being Richie Allen. Pavletich is definitely a 4x so that means C Boyer is a 4x even though he has relatively low quantities. Too bad there aren't more of these misaligned backs out there. Also, the Cardinals Rookie Stars card (Steve Carlton) has a 4x Met or a 4x Senator to its' right.