Opinions wanted....Does this Willie Mays card look graded right?

[bobbyw8469]

Hello I. I just got back a 1971 Topps Willie Mays card from PSA. I'll be honest. These black border cards give me fits on trying to accurately guess a grade. Does this Mays look properly graded? Or would it not look out of place in a SGC 6 holder??

[JollyElm]

I think the problem with the 1971s (from my own experience in your group subs) lies in the fact that all normal people 'only' look at the black borders, so if they are sweet with sharp black corners, you assume they will come back as high grade cards. Perhaps that's what's going on here, because that card looks epically nice. Maybe PSA had problems with the focus or gloss or the slight edge whiteness on the right side and upper corner? Who knows, that's a great looking Mays!!

[AP34]

A bit OC, top right corner has issues. It is a very solid mid grade card. That being said 5/6 depends on back and what it looks like under a microscope.

[rats60]

With the wear on the upper right, I would say it is graded right.

[jb67]

That top right corner is what is bringing the grade down. Nice looking for the grade. I think it is probably graded correctly. I could see it in a PSA 6 but not higher than that.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by rats60

With the wear on the upper right, I would say it is graded right.

[bnorth]

I would say accurately graded. Could also see it in a PSA 6 slab.

[bobbyw8469]

Thanks for the opinions all. I have seen similar 5's with a lot of white around to border. Jolly is correct. On the black border cards, the edges receive all the scrutiny.

[bobsbbcards]

Psa 6

chas

[brob28]

I agree with the others, the upper right corner hurts the technical grade thus the 5, but regardless, nice card.

[Gr8Beldini]

Originally Posted by rats60

With the wear on the upper right, I would say it is graded right.

Me too. 100%

[Kutcher55]

It’s really impossible to make a good call on these cards unless you have a chance to study it under light. There are so many different things that can be wrong with a surface even if there are no creases or wrinkles. If you’re puzzled by the grade, spend more time studying the card. Chances are you missed something. Especially true for cards lower than 4.

[rugbymarine]

I've got a bunch of mid-grade 71s, so I wanted to chime in. They offer a nice comparison of current grading standards.

Ernie Banks PSA 5 - Overall the corners on this Banks look weaker than your Mays, but in what I think will be a common refrain, the top right on that Mays is holding it back IMO.

Roberto Clemente SGC 5 - REALLY weak corners here. ALso the surface of this card has some light damage as well, seen especially in the black area in the bottom border. Makes me think your Mays could definitely pull a 5.5 or 6 from SGC.

Jim Palmer PSA 7 - This one looks about right. I think the corners are strong enough to be in a 7.5 or 8 holder, but the slight edge damage along the right border would probably prevent that.

Brooks Robinson PSA 5.5 - When comparing your Mays to this Brooks, your Mays grade seems harsh (by 0.5 to a full grade). The right edge on this Brooks is beat up worse than any edge on that Mays. All 4 corners on this Brooks are stronger than the top right corner on that Mays, however, the other 3 corners on the Mays look stronger than ALL the corners on the Brooks. These 2 cards make for an interesting comparison.

Al Kaline PSA 5 - This is the one for me, that seems like a harsh grade. I think this could be a 6, for the same reasons your Mays does.

Frank Robinson PSA 7 - This grade feels generous, by about a half grade, but I don't think looks out of place in a 7 holder.

Hank Aaron SGC 6.5 - I'm surprised this card is an SGC 6.5, since that bottom right corner ding is worse than it looks in the scan. For me this card is an example of a theory that I have on a differing approach to grading vintage cards at PSA vs SGC. In my opinion, PSA takes a maximum scoring approach. By that I mean PSA sees the top right corner on your Mays and decides that because of that corner the best the card can be is a 5. I have several examples where SGC seems to take more of an "averaging of the features" approach. Hypothetically, for the PSA 5 Mays, SGC might say that surface = 7; centering = 6; edges = 7.5; the left corners = 8.5; bottom right corner = 7; top left corner = 4. And they might come up with an average of 6 for the whole card. (** I'm not saying they do this, but I have a few cards that make me think they do**)

Willie Mays PSA 6 - I think this card is a great comparison to your PSA 5. Centering is better than the 5. Corners are 5.5 - 6 worthy on this one, but that left edge damage is significant enough that I'm surprised it got a 6. This PSA 6 also has the benefit of not having a corner as bad as the top right on that PSA 5.

Overall, it seems that some grades might seem harsh or generous in different ways. But overall, it is a subjective game that we play by submitting cards.

Either way, beautiful Mays, Bobby!

[gonefishin]

I just received several graded 71s back from PSA and they all came back in the 5-6 range. I can't see the back of your card, but the fronts are comparable to the ones I received. Seems they are pretty consistent.

[Houseofd]

One defect that hasn’t been mentioned that can found on the PSA 5 Mays, and the PSA 5 Banks as well— a (non wax) noticeable, without magnification, stain on the white uniform(s). This could arguably drop the grade(s) from a PSA 6 to 5.

[jchcollins]

Varying standards are not that uncommon, especially considering that all grading as a crapshoot - and 71's are just exponentially so in that regard given all the focus on the black borders.

My experience on the whole has been that just corner and border wear probably tends to earn most 71's a grade lower on average compared to other normal white border sets because it's just so noticeable. Anymore though on all vintage, a card that looks like an easy 6 getting a 5 is hard to tell because of how they scrutinize the surface. You may have missed a tiny wrinkle, or even a bend. Or they may have seen something under a loupe that you didn't. Impossible to tell from a picture.

Your Mays on the whole looks a tad undergraded, but within the range to me. Tough card. High number, and it always seems to come OC s-s in addition to having the given black border issues. Nice card.

[55koufax]

This appears to be a solid 6 all the way. The upper right "damage" that has been frequently referred to as "issue" is not so egregious that it brings it down to a 5. I have had many '71's graded by PSA thru the years. If it were mine, I would scrutinize first under a loupe with proper lighting, and if it appears not to have any other "defects" than those mentioned, a crack out is in order.

Current VCP shows 5's at about $130, hence, an $18 submission is available if you have 19 other cards to sub from the same. PSA 6's trade for approx. $215 these days. For a potential $70 uptick in value, I would crack it out and re-sub.