Can you personally watch the whole process of your card being graded?

[parkplace33]

Simple question: Can you personally watch the whole process of your card being graded? Meaning, you are there when they accept, review, slab, the whole thing. You never let the card leave your eyesight.

I have asked numerous collectors and dealers this question and received the same answer: No, not going to happen, 100 percent. No one (outside of employees) is allowed into the grading area. Not even for million dollar cards. Really? If so, this surprises me.

[raulus]

They do on-site grading at the National, right?

I've never actually been, so I'm not sure if they whisk it behind the curtain or something.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by raulus

They do on-site grading at the National, right?

I've never actually been, so I'm not sure if they whisk it behind the curtain or something.

They do, but not in front of you.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Simple question: Can you personally watch the whole process of your card being graded? Meaning, you are there when they accept, review, slab, the whole thing. You never let the card leave your eyesight.

I have asked numerous collectors and dealers this question and received the same answer: No, not going to happen, 100 percent. No one (outside of employees) is allowed into the grading area. Not even for million dollar cards. Really? If so, this surprises me.

No you can't. That's why the clowns with the rebacked fake Wagner claim they wouldn't submit it to a reputable company, because they were afraid it would be switched out. Forget the fact that it's a ridiculous fake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI3mP8xV-KE

[Tyruscobb]

I'm sure a TPG would allow it under certain circumstances - the right customer, the right card(s), and, of course, for the right price. However, I doubt the average Joe could make this arrangement happen.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

No you can't. That's why the clowns with the rebacked fake Wagner claim they wouldn't submit it to a reputable company, because they were afraid it would be switched out. Forget the fact that it's a ridiculous fake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI3mP8xV-KE

Bingo. They own a fake and are trying to play the race card, the victim card, and every other card under the sun to convince others it is real.

[butchie_t]

My guess is this would never happen for anyone. Each of these TPGs more than likely have proprietary steps that they take and would not want some interloper coming in from off the street to 'watch' the process.

It comes down to protecting their product and how they implement their product. I doubt very seriously they are gonna start handing out NDAs to people either.

I would not ask nor would I expect them to let me watch this process either.

Butch

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

No you can't. That's why the clowns with the rebacked fake Wagner claim they wouldn't submit it to a reputable company, because they were afraid it would be switched out. Forget the fact that it's a ridiculous fake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI3mP8xV-KE

not surprising

Still would be cool to see it in action and perhaps get some transparency to the industry

[maniac_73]

"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"

[Golfcollector]

A number of years ago at the national in Chicago, (WAY before the huge lines PSA gets at the National these days) I did a 1 day turnaround on a high valued Bobby Jones Golf Card from the Abdulla set. It came back as a PSA 4 when I thought for sure it was a PSA 6 maybe a 7.

So, while sulking at the PSA table upon opening my order I asked if I could talk to someone to see why this only graded a 4.

Joe O. got someone to come out from behind the blue curtain to get me, they took me back there, put it under a much brighter light and then showed me a very small surface crease on the back of the card...which was not super easy to see even with the better direct lighting they had. While back there the "guy" showed me the machines sealing the cards in the holders (not quiet mind you those things were LOUD) and I basically was told they were happy to answer any question I had about my grades and made sure my questions were answered.

Doubt something like this would ever happen again in today's day and age, but It was cool to see "behind the curtain" so to speak, even if just for a few minutes. A pretty cool experience.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Tyruscobb

I'm sure a TPG would allow it under certain circumstances - the right customer, the right card(s), and, of course, for the right price. However, I doubt the average Joe could make this arrangement happen.

I knew people who had access to the PSA grading booth during the Baker Rocchi years. Some submitters are more equal than others.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by raulus

They do on-site grading at the National, right?

They make sure each venue for the National has a secret, underground, high-tech, Batcave-like setup for them to fully examine cards without anyone's prying eyes interfering. If you see a bust of Don Mossi in someone's booth, tilt the head back and push the button. This will give you access to the 'Batsmen Pole.'

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

They make sure each venue for the National has a secret, underground, high-tech, Batcave-like setup for them to fully examine cards without anyone's prying eyes interfering. If you see a bust of Don Mossi in someone's booth, tilt the head back and push the button. This will give you access to the 'Batsmen Pole.'

They were going to make it 'tilt the head forward' but Mossi's nose prevented it...

[jingram058]

With all the forensic analyses the fake Wagner went through in order to definitively, 100% conclusively determine it to be a fake (thickness derived from CT scan, microscopic printing analysis, etc.), I have to believe that any really high-dollar card would have to get a similar level of attention to detail by a respectable TPG. Zero possibility a fake gets through that. I highly doubt a lower echelon card, however, gets anywhere close to that kind of analysis.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by jingram058

With all the forensic analyses the fake Wagner went through in order to definitively, 100% conclusively determine it to be a fake (thickness derived from CT scan, microscopic printing analysis, etc.), I have to believe that any really high-dollar card would have to get a similar level of attention to detail by a respectable TPG. Zero possibility a fake gets through that. I highly doubt a lower echelon card, however, gets anywhere close to that kind of analysis.

Let’s be honest, that was 100% to build tension for the show and to interest people with little knowledge of cards (like the owner). The hosts of the show know absolutely nothing about cards to the level of it being comedic and did this for production value. A cursory 30 second look could tell someone mildly skilled that the card is a fake and the pile of wasted money does not address the prevalent grading error of missing alterations. The fakes that pass, although they make great funny posts are an infinitesimally small number of completed graded items. Now doctored high grade, in my estimation, are much closer to a notable percentage. Adding several thousand dollars in CT testing to an already expensive process seems extraneous.

As it is, cards are inspected carefully and as most submitters use microscopic computer cameras to blow up cards for corner inspection and flaws, I assume the graders do as well. They are fairly inexpensive. The improvements really need to be removing opinions or a good or bad day for a grader. The human element is the flaw in the sauce for the huge variable grades shown by resubmitters.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Let’s be honest, that was 100% to build tension for the show and to interest people with little knowledge of cards (like the owner). The hosts of the show know absolutely nothing about cards to the level of it being comedic and did this for production value. A cursory 30 second look could tell someone mildly skilled that the card is a fake and the pile of wasted money does not address the prevalent grading error of missing alterations. The fakes that pass, although they make great funny posts are an infinitesimally small number of completed graded items. Now doctored high grade, in my estimation, are much closer to a notable percentage. Adding several thousand dollars in CT testing to an already expensive process seems extraneous.

As it is, cards are inspected carefully and as most submitters use microscopic computer cameras to blow up cards for corner inspection and flaws, I assume the graders do as well. They are fairly inexpensive. The improvements really need to be removing opinions or a good or bad day for a grader. The human element is the flaw in the sauce for the huge variable grades shown by resubmitters.

Totally agree with you, sir!

[steve B]

At the international stamp show in 2006 they had a "roadshow" sort of thing. Not so much roadshow as an expert there who would give an opinion about one or two stamps.
I brought a couple, One I was pretty sure was a good one, and one I thought was great when I bought it but eventually had serious doubts but wasn't sure.

Total time for the expert to do the off the cuff opinion? Under 2 minutes total. Probably under 1 minute, but I wasn't timing it. The explaining took longer.
The good/bad news was that I was right on both, a big confidence boost.
Better still, the one that was good was very good, and now has a nearly required certificate(done much later) and the one I had doubts about was bought at about retail for what it really is.

So aside from as others have said, being showy, a card likely doesn't get extra scrutiny even though it should.
I've often thought the grades given Wagners in general are very generous. Look at most of them and think if it was a common would it have the same grade.

[parkplace33]

Thanks all, appreciate the info.

Shocking they won't do it (as a standard). I believe some NET54 members have said they won't grade their cards and packs due to not seeing it through the process.

[steve B]

As a good general rule you want to keep separation between the person doing the grading/authentication and the person having it done.
That eliminates a lot of potential problems with influence.

[MikeGarcia]

Originally Posted by steve B

As a good general rule you want to keep separation between the person doing the grading/authentication and the person having it done.
That eliminates a lot of potential problems with influence.

..ya know , over the years , I heard things ; I heard things.

.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by steve B

As a good general rule you want to keep separation between the person doing the grading/authentication and the person having it done.
That eliminates a lot of potential problems with influence.

Originally Posted by MikeGarcia

..ya know , over the years , I heard things ; I heard things.

.

LOL, you didn't have to hear things it is a service that has been offered on here before. I do not remember the exact details but certain people could get already graded cards reviewed one on one with the graders and they charge for that service.