Ed Delahanty....2-part, Tues Nite Trivia Quiz....and, show us your Delahanty stuff

[tedzan]

Ed Delahanty....1903. My favorite 19th Century ballplayer, along with King Kelly.




1....If you subtract the 3 formative, free-swinging years of Big Ed's 16-year career, then do the math, you will be surprised to discover
the magnitude of his statistics in the following 13 years. And how they compare with the greats.

2....The "accidental death" of this great 19th Century Baseball player remains one of the most fascinating mysteries in Baseball history.
His youngest brother, Frank, traveled from Syracuse to Niagara Falls in July 1903 to identify his body. I do not think the ACTUAL cause
of Big Ed's death will ever be known ?

Let's hear your thinking on this particular subjects ? ?



Frank
.



TED Z

T206 Reference
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[Peter_Spaeth]

Would his BA have been higher than Cobb?

[FrankWakefield]

I first thought 'free-swinging' would have referred to the strike out peaks of 60, 50, and 36 in a season....

But I think it refers to his first 3 seasons.

Absent those... he would have hit .300 or higher every season, and have a lifetime batting average pretty close to Rogers Hornsby's. Both would be about the best right handed hitters for average, lifetime.

The Sowell book about his death, is about so much more about the formative years of what we consider baseball... the leagues, the contracts, and all.
Sowell, July 2, 1903. It should be required reading here.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

I first thought 'free-swinging' would have referred to the strike out peaks of 60, 50, and 36 in a season....

But I think it refers to his first 3 seasons.

Absent those... he would have hit .300 or higher every season, and have a lifetime batting average pretty close to Rogers Hornsby's. Both would be about the best right handed hitters for average, lifetime.

The Sowell book about his death, is about so much more about the formative years of what we consider baseball... the leagues, the contracts, and all.
Sowell, July 2, 1903. It should be required reading here.

Hi Frank,
You are on the right track. Two years into his career, Big Ed had matured and started using his mind more so than his brawn. He was mainly a pull-hitter; however, when the opportunity
arose, he would often slice the ball to the opposite field for a Hit. A practice that I wished Ted Williams would have done, which would have resulted in Ted achieving a .400 career BA.

Calculating Big Ed's BA for his best 13 years results within a Point (or two) of equaling Cobb's .366 BA.

I did the math in a hurry....so, I will go and double-check my numbers.

Thanks for suggesting the Sowell book....I will chek-it-out.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[tedzan]

I will award the Trivia King trophy to Frank W.

Frank W's response is just shy of the answer I was expecting. Once Ed Delahanty combined his mind with his physical skills to play the game, he was a
tremendous ballplayer.

For Big Ed's best 13 seasons of his 16-year career his Batting Average was .364 (only 2-points shy of Ty Cobb's .366 BA). And both of them batted 400+
three times.


The Brothers Delahanty......


Tom….1894, 1896-1897





Joe…… 1907-1909




Jim…… 1901-1902, 1904-1912, 1914-1915
x
.




Frank…... 1905-1908, 1914-1915
.



TED Z

T206 Reference
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[Peter_Spaeth]

Did I not mention Cobb specifically? LOL

[tedzan]

Peter

You alluded to it.

Frank elaborated more regarding Delahanty's hitting performance.

Furthermore, Frank also responded to the 2nd part of this quiz.


Anyhow, you get awarded the runner-up Trophy.



TED Z

T206 Reference
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[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Peter

You alluded to it.

Frank elaborated more regarding Delahanty's hitting performance.

Furthermore, Frank also responded to the 2nd part of this quiz.


Anyhow, you get awarded the runner-up Trophy.



TED Z

T206 Reference
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In a field of two, I am honored.

[tedzan]

Ed Delahanty was a 20 year old rookie in 1888 when he joined the Philadelphia Phillies. His first 5 years he averaged only .270 BA.

Then in 1893, he hit for a .368 BA. For the following 10 years of his career, Big Ed consistently hit well above .300 (including .400+
in 3 of 11 seasons).

I calculated his Batting Average for these 11 years, and it is an amazing .373



TED Z

T206 Reference
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[tedzan]

OK, this Quiz is over.....so let's continue this thread showing some cards, memorabilia, or any interesting stuff regarding Ed Delahanty.
Also, feel free to include any stuff of his 5 brothers.




TED Z

T206 Reference
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[mrreality68]

So much for either our math skills or reading comprehension or both.

It was fun but I was lost

[jggames]

Very cool thread and fun read here’s another Frank back…

[Natswin2019]

My E96 of Jim

[oldjudge]

Ted-I like that N173. Is that yours? Here is an 1890 cabinet of Big Ed from his time in the Players League. It is the only copy I have ever seen.

[triwak]

Big Ed

[the-illini]

My only Ed - a W600 cabinet

[T206Collector]

Brothers...

[PhillyFan1883]

Big Ed is one of my all time favorites. So underrated.
1894 Phillies outfield all three hof, Thompson, Hamilton. And big Ed Delahanty hit over 400!

Here is a 1894 Philadelphia team issue schedule to commentate the feat. One of my favorite pieces. Right there with my 89 OJ bat horizontal.

[Bpm0014]

Here’s a Type 1 Horner of Jim....

[Bpm0014]

This is one of my favorite items I own. Court documents from “DELAHANTY VS. MICHIGAN CENTRAL RAIL ROAD” in which Delahanty’s wife sued the rail road for throwing her husband off of the train and him subsequently falling off of the tracks and drowning. The content is absolutely fascinating and talks about the entire night in which Delahanty died. It also talks about how his body was found, the condition of his body, and what was found in his pockets...

[Bpm0014]

1

[Bpm0014]

2

[Bpm0014]

3

[Bpm0014]

4

[Bpm0014]

5

[bxb]

A great card, and a great book:



https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1643931459



https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1643931517

[skelly423]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

2

This is fascinating to me. Any chance of bigger pictures? I can't quite make anything out.

[Bpm0014]

I wish I knew how to make them bigger. If you would like to send me your email address I’ll happily send the normal sized pictures to you. They are crystal clear!

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

I wish I knew how to make them bigger. If you would like to send me your email address I’ll happily send the normal sized pictures to you. They are crystal clear!

Hi Brendan

This is great stuff.....please send me the pictures.

My email address is...... tedzan11@comcast.net

Thanks much,

TED Z

T206 Reference
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[Bpm0014]

Sent Ted!

[skelly423]

Send them my way too: skelly423@gmail.com

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

Sent Ted!

Brendan

I cannot believe that I'm sitting here in the comfort of our home on this freezing, rainy night reading original Court documents from July 1903 regarding Ed Delahanty's death.

I received the 5 pages you sent, I enlarged them, and printed them. Tremendously interesting stuff.

Thank you very much, good buddy.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[Bpm0014]

Not a problem Ted! Sent Sean!

[tedzan]

Jim Delahanty was a versatile fielder who played both infield and outfield with many teams.
His Major League career spanned 13 years, hitting for a career .283 Batting Average.
Playing for Detroit, 1911 was his best year with a .339 BA, 14 HRs and 94 RBI's


NOTE that American Lithographic spelled the DELAHANTY name correctly on the T205 and T207 cards.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[Rhotchkiss]

Ed

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Ted-I like that N173. Is that yours? Here is an 1890 cabinet of Big Ed from his time in the Players League. It is the only copy I have ever seen.

Hi Jay

I like it, too.....it's pretty nice, as far as reproductions go.

Originally Posted by tedzan

Ed Delahanty was a 20 year old rookie in 1888 when he joined the Philadelphia Phillies. His first 5 years he averaged only .270 BA.

Then in 1893, he hit for a .368 BA. For the following 10 years of his career, Big Ed consistently hit well above .300 (including .400+
in 3 of 11 seasons).

I calculated his Batting Average for these 11 years, and it is an amazing .373



TED Z

T206 Reference
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[puckpaul]

the Duke Cabinet of Ed. I also have the M101 Sporting News like the one someone posted above. Love the Dukes, beautiful cards.

[Rhotchkiss]

GREAT cabinet Paul

[oldjudge]

Hi Ted! Hope all is well with you and the family.

[Michael Peich]

Hi, Ted,

I concur with your evaluation--Big Del is also my favorite 19c player. Here is my only card of him. I also liked Casway's bio which I reviewed for the Philadelphia Inquirer.

Stay well,
Mike

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Michael Peich

Hi, Ted,

I concur with your evaluation--Big Del is also my favorite 19c player. Here is my only card of him. I also liked Casway's bio which I reviewed for the Philadelphia Inquirer.

Stay well,
Mike

Hey Mike.....always great to hear from you ole buddy. Hope to see you at the Philly Show.

It's my understanding that, that tragic night Big Ed was taking the train to New York for a possible signing with the NY Giants. Can you imagine what would have been if Delahanty
ended up playing for McGraw ?
I think McGraw would have "straightened" him out, and Big Ed would be the all-time Batting leader (instead of Cobb).

Take care,


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[FrankWakefield]

I had thought of the Giants winning one or two more World Championships with Delahanty; that's where my mind went when I read that about talking contract money with the Giants.

Had not considered batting titles. If Delahanty had become a batting challenge to Ty Cobb, I think Ty would have knuckled down even more, and maybe he'd have hit in the .370s or .380s, lifetime.

Something for fireside thought while waiting for a baseball season to start.

[Bpm0014]

The court documents that I have specifically state that he was on his way to NY to sign with the Giants and McGraw for $7000. His current salary was $4000. He was found with $500 in cash on him (and $1500 worth of diamonds).

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

The court documents that I have specifically state that he was on his way to NY to sign with the Giants and McGraw for $7000. His current salary was $4000. He was found with $500 in cash on him (and $1500 worth of diamonds).

Any way you can post better scans? I would love to read the docs but can hardly make things out in your pics. Thanks

[FrankWakefield]

Now that makes it sound like he had loose diamonds.

It references $1500 in diamonds; then mentions a variety of jewelry, rings, shirt studs, collar buttons, and cuff buttons. He was a well-dressed man of the day.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Any way you can post better scans? I would love to read the docs but can hardly make things out in your pics. Thanks

Ryan

I have "enhanced" Brendan's document and can email you legible scans of the 5 pages.
Email me and I will send them to you tomorrow morning.

tedzan11@comcast.net

TED Z
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[Pat R]

I can't read what Brendan posted either is it similar to this? starting on page 311

https://books.google.com/books?id=B-...0books&f=false

[lumberjack]

You can Google "Canadian Railway Cases Volume 3 Page 311 Google Books"
(J Delahanty v. Michigan Central).

This is the Appeals Court ruling from 6/29/05.

Delahanty's widow and child were awarded $5000. The court said Delahanty was in no condition to have been removed from the train.

[Bpm0014]

Any way you can post better scans? I would love to read the docs but can hardly make things out in your pics. Thanks

If anyone wants to send me their email address I’ll be happy to send them. They’re as clear as day haha

[WillowGrove]

Great thread - Ted, thanks for starting it. He's my favorite 19th century HOFer.

I'd like to show cabinet photos of a few family members including one of Big Ed in uniform.

You'll see on the backs the family are identified. Tom, Bridget Delahanty - the matriarch, Kate, their sister and Big Ed. (ETA: I see the back of Tom is tough to see - but it is labeled Tom Delahanty)

What's cool to me is that the address on the back of Ed's cabinet says 'Return to W.J Delahanty 3001 Payne Ave." If you see the info I attach from a 1924 directory of Cleveland - you'll see that address listed next to Joseph who owned the family saloon on that site with brother Tom. So I would say all these were owned by the family who were from Cleveland. Hope you like.