Memorabilia in Auctions WEAK

[Shoeless Moe]

Is it just me or has the Memorabilia section of Auctions been weak lately?

I know Cards are surging, and seems like most auctions are 80-90% cards, and the memorabilia has been slim pickens.

Hoping REA turns this around, but usually I'm involved in OT on Auction night, but it's been since December since I've been involved, just have not seen much quality.

[ooo-ribay]

I totally agree. As a "non-card guy," I blow through most catalogs in 10 minutes or less.

[perezfan]

It is complete SH*T these days. I cannot believe how the good stuff has dried up. I attribute this to four things....

1. Cards were much more mass-produced than virtually all forms of memorabilia that we collect. There will never be a shortage of cards, dating back to Old Judge. There are just a ton out there in comparison to more unique memorabilia.

2. "Flippers" have become very prominent in the Card arena. Re-selling is at an all-time high because the market continues to be hot. So you will see tons of inventory available on eBay and in every auction. In fact there aren't even enough auctions to sell all of it. That's why 3 of the biggest (REA, Heritage and Goldin) have added their monthly events (mostly for lower-end offerings).

3. Collectors of unique/rare memorabilia are far more reluctant to part with beloved items, simply because they may never find another in their lifetimes. There will always be another '52 Topps Mantle or Green Ty Cobb T206. But there may never be another game-used Mantle Jersey or Ty Cobb Fan for a Fan. Especially in decent/unrestored condition.

4. Auction houses love to feature Cards. Higher-end examples sell for a lot of money, garner lots of bids, and have predictable prices (based on a plethora of documented sales history). So it is easy to set proper opening bid amounts and reasonable reserves (if applicable). Most importantly, they are small and easy to ship. Typically memorabilia is more bulky, more difficult to package/ship, and takes up more space in terms of storage.

I would say that (of those 4 reasons), collectors not letting go is the biggest reason for the current drought. I have a lot of nice cards that I will part with some day. But much of the rare memorabilia I have will accompany me to the grave. Just my observations over time.

[bbcard1]

It may be outside of your scope of interest, but there's some neat stuff in the Prestige Japanese Baseball Auction. I thought the Oh bank was cool as well as the Ichiro banners.

[Arazi4442]

Some cool stuff in LOTG this month as well.

There’s definitely less as cards are pushed to the front of all auctions, just have to dig a little more.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by perezfan

It is complete SH*T these days. I cannot believe how the good stuff has dried up. I attribute this to four things....

1. Cards were much more mass-produced than virtually all forms of memorabilia that we collect. There will never be a shortage of cards, dating back to Old Judge. There are just a ton out there in comparison to more unique memorabilia.

2. "Flippers" have become very prominent in the Card arena. Re-selling is at an all-time high because the market continues to be hot. So you will see tons of inventory available on eBay and in every auction. In fact there aren't even enough auctions to sell all of it. That's why 3 of the biggest (REA, Heritage and Goldin) have added their monthly events (mostly for lower-end offerings).

3. Collectors of unique/rare memorabilia are far more reluctant to part with beloved items, simply because they may never find another in their lifetimes. There will always be another '52 Topps Mantle or Green Ty Cobb T206. But there may never be another game-used Mantle Jersey or Ty Cobb Fan for a Fan. Especially in decent/unrestored condition.

4. Auction houses love to feature Cards. Higher-end examples sell for a lot of money, garner lots of bids, and have predictable prices (based on a plethora of documented sales history). So it is easy to set proper opening bid amounts and reasonable reserves (if applicable). Most importantly, they are small and easy to ship. Typically memorabilia is more bulky, more difficult to package/ship, and takes up more space in terms of storage.

I would say that (of those 4 reasons), collectors not letting go is the biggest reason for the current drought. I have a lot of nice cards that I will part with some day. But much of the rare memorabilia I have will accompany me to the grave. Just my observations over time.

I think you nailed it, Mark.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

It may be outside of your scope of interest, but there's some neat stuff in the Prestige Japanese Baseball Auction. I thought the Oh bank was cool as well as the Ichiro banners.

Not as cool as the 1950 Yakyu Shonen Magazine...

[keithsky]

To many auction houses now and some running daily or weekly now making stuff dry up instead of 2 or 3 auctions a year but the same auction house.

[Al C.risafulli]

Cards are super hot right now.

We've worked really hard to make LOTG a memorabilia auction as much as a card auction, but one thing I can say for sure: memorabilia collectors don't part with their material as frequently as card collectors do, so consignments are more difficult to get. I am incredibly interested in advertising display pieces, game-used items, old scorecards, significant ticket stubs, and large-format items like panoramas and such.

What I find is that card collectors will often work on a project, like a set or something, then finish that set and sell it off to fund another project. Memorabilia collectors often surround themselves with their collections, filling up their bars, hobby rooms, man-caves, etc., with memorabilia that never leaves.

I work pretty hard to keep the memorabilia up in the front of our auctions (the baseball memorabilia section is ahead of the card section in our catalog, though we did start the 'Great Cards' section in the front of this auction), to present large-format items well, to describe them and research them as best I can. Hopefully we'll continue to have a steady flow of great memorabilia items. I do agree, memorabilia seems to be light, but on our end, it's not for lack of trying!

-Al

[ooo-ribay]

It sounds like perezfan could singlehandedly remedy the shortage of quality memorabilia on the open market.

[Snapolit1]

Agree with Al. Cards go in the safe; cool memorabilia goes on the walls. Once it goes up on the wall, prob not coming down.

[RTK]

I agree, just received my spring Lelands catalog and it was pretty lackluster. I didn't bookmark anything that struck my fancy.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Agree with Al. Cards go in the safe; cool memorabilia goes on the walls. Once it goes up on the wall, prob not coming down.

Yeap. I couldn't handle not seeing my large Horner Composite when I walk into my office so it didn't sell in my collection auction. It's still here...

[YazFenway08]

Leon...that is gorgeous. Have never seen that

[mr2686]

Wow, that's really cool Leon!

[Al C.risafulli]

Yeap. I couldn't handle not seeing my large Horner Composite when I walk into my office so it didn't sell in my collection auction. It's still here...

Exactly. I tried like hell to get it into my catalog, but Leon wouldn't budge.

Come on, Leon, you can help improve the memorabilia selection of my next catalog for the benefit of everybody in this thread, whaddaya say?

-Al

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Leon

Yeap. I couldn't handle not seeing my large Horner Composite when I walk into my office so it didn't sell in my collection auction. It's still here...

Incredible piece.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli

Cards are super hot right now.

We've worked really hard to make LOTG a memorabilia auction as much as a card auction, but one thing I can say for sure: memorabilia collectors don't part with their material as frequently as card collectors do, so consignments are more difficult to get. I am incredibly interested in advertising display pieces, game-used items, old scorecards, significant ticket stubs, and large-format items like panoramas and such.

What I find is that card collectors will often work on a project, like a set or something, then finish that set and sell it off to fund another project. Memorabilia collectors often surround themselves with their collections, filling up their bars, hobby rooms, man-caves, etc., with memorabilia that never leaves.

I work pretty hard to keep the memorabilia up in the front of our auctions (the baseball memorabilia section is ahead of the card section in our catalog, though we did start the 'Great Cards' section in the front of this auction), to present large-format items well, to describe them and research them as best I can. Hopefully we'll continue to have a steady flow of great memorabilia items. I do agree, memorabilia seems to be light, but on our end, it's not for lack of trying!

-Al

Great post, I think you described many of us. I have been collecting cards for around 35 years now. They all set in a spare bedroom that I rarely enter. I have also done the different card projects to only sell it when completed. Sometimes I don't even complete them before they bore me.

A great guy and fellow member got me into collecting bats a couple years ago. My bat display is in my living room, my wife is awesome.

I have sold many cards in the last year to support my bat habit. Luckily the cards have greatly increased in price while the bats I collect have only slightly gone up.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Leon

Yeap. I couldn't handle not seeing my large Horner Composite when I walk into my office so it didn't sell in my collection auction. It's still here...

That piece is truly insane. Stunning. Seriously, you could put that an an autographed Goudey Ruth side by side and I pick that piece every time.

Here's my contribution. Purchased from a board member and framed up last year.

[jbsports33]

Yes - no question, lack of items and interest

Still have fun finding what I can!

Jimmy

[ksfarmboy]

I’m just glad Leon promised to sell it to me for the cost of the framing when he decides to sell. Leon is a stand up kind of guy for sure🤣. Seriously great piece Leon.

[Scott Garner]

I would say that (of those 4 reasons), collectors not letting go is the biggest reason for the current drought. I have a lot of nice cards that I will part with some day.
But much of the rare memorabilia I have will accompany me to the grave. Just my observations over time.[/QUOTE]

Well said, Mark, with the exception of one rare Vandy pennant that needs to return to OH before that first shovel of dirt hits the grave...

In all seriousness, great response

[Shoeless Moe]

Yes some very good responses, and Al, really appreciate hearing an Auction Houses perspective.

Wish more Auction House people would come on here from time to time and lend their insights on trends and such.

Really appreciate.

[bobfreedman]

Just got this back from the frame shop. Mile High has some decent memorabilia in this auction that just opened especially the Tuxedo signs

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by bobfreedman

Just got this back from the frame shop. Mile High has some decent memorabilia in this auction that just opened especially the Tuxedo signs

Was that Ted Patterson's, Bob? I got to spend a lot of time in Ted's basement looking at stuff like this piled up against the walls, and of course the walls themselves were full. Incredibly beautiful ads like this one. LOTG has been selling his collection, but it doesn't seem to me that most of it has surfaced, Big Al would know much better than me, though. I miss Ted, he could be a lot of fun, lots of great stories from his career in the game.

[bobfreedman]

Hank, it is not from Ted's collection, this was from a recent find.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by bobfreedman

Hank, it is not from Ted's collection, this was from a recent find.

That is an absolute stunner.

Other than perhaps the Hassan Tobacco Cobb/Matty Sign, I honestly don't think there's a more beautiful Ad Sign out there.

[rholmes]

As a tangent to this discussion, does anyone think the hot card market is softening prices on memorabilia, diverting funds from memorabilia to cards? Or is the divide between card and memorabilia collectors so great that the current market doesn't matter?

If you have higher end pre-war memorabilia you're thinking of consigning, are you holding until cards cool off, or are you selling while the money is flowing freely?

And, by the way, if anyone wants to answer: Is the market for rarer pre-war World Series programs ($10k range) usually strong/predictable, or is it prone to fluctuation based on small bidder pool etc?

[Al C.risafulli]

My opinion: the memorabilia and card markets are typically not tied to one another in any way other than "a rising tide lifts all boats."

I tend to think of a Venn diagram, with card people in one circle, autograph people in another circle, game worn in another, and memorabilia in a fourth - there are places they intersect, and certainly people who collect all four, but I don't think a run-up in one area negatively impacts prices in the other.

I wouldn't hesitate to run high-end memorabilia in an auction during a time when card prices were strong, and vice-versa.

-Al

[jgmp123]

Love this post...I honestly thought I was alone in my thinking of this....My Want/Need list is pretty small at the moment (1920 and 1920 World Series Ticket Stubs)..but they were coming up in at least one auction regularly, but now I can't find them anywhere. Ebay has a couple at outlandish prices, but that's it.....Just crazy to see what is happening in the modern card market as well....

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli

My opinion: the memorabilia and card markets are typically not tied to one another in any way other than "a rising tide lifts all boats."

I tend to think of a Venn diagram, with card people in one circle, autograph people in another circle, game worn in another, and memorabilia in a fourth - there are places they intersect, and certainly people who collect all four, but I don't think a run-up in one area negatively impacts prices in the other.

I wouldn't hesitate to run high-end memorabilia in an auction during a time when card prices were strong, and vice-versa.

-Al

I agree with Al, and do collect all 4 of those categories. I have no discipline, I suppose. But I do not believe the dramatic spike in card prices indicates a negative for memorabilia at all. If anything, some card collectors who now get priced out, may turn to certain forms of memorabilia as an alternative. As Al eloquently stated... a rising tide lifts all boats.

I'll cite one example... A lot of the cards on my want-list are now out of sight. I can't justify the prices when I know this is a seller's market and not an ideal time to buy. So I turned to Original Type 1 Photos, used to create the 1955 and 1956 Topps cards. These are crystal clear images taken by esteemed photographer William Jacobellis.

I've focused on my favorite team (the Reds), and have recently acquired Gus Bell, Joe Nuxhall, Johnny Temple, Rudy Minarcin, Smoky Burgess and Al Silvera. It's really exciting when you can find the original images used for both the portrait and the action shots that appear on these wonderful horizontal cards. And it's even cooler to display the cards alongside these amazing photos.

[Snapolit1]

I'd probably put photos in a fifth circle. Seems to be universe removed from general memorabilia.

Speaking of cool memorabilia, Al this is an awesome piece.

https://loveofthegameauctions.com/Lo...entoryid=23409

Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli

My opinion: the memorabilia and card markets are typically not tied to one another in any way other than "a rising tide lifts all boats."

I tend to think of a Venn diagram, with card people in one circle, autograph people in another circle, game worn in another, and memorabilia in a fourth - there are places they intersect, and certainly people who collect all four, but I don't think a run-up in one area negatively impacts prices in the other.

I wouldn't hesitate to run high-end memorabilia in an auction during a time when card prices were strong, and vice-versa.

-Al

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by bobfreedman

Just got this back from the frame shop. Mile High has some decent memorabilia in this auction that just opened especially the Tuxedo signs

There's memorabilia and then there's bobfreedman memorabilia.

[sportsnut25]

SCP is loaded with memorabilia in the auction getting ready to start.

[RedsFan1941]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Speaking of cool memorabilia, Al this is an awesome piece.

https://loveofthegameauctions.com/Lo...entoryid=23409

good eye, not a fantasy piece.

[Al C.risafulli]

Interesting comment on that piece, Steve. We sold it once before, back in 2018. The winning bidder misplaced the LOA, and so when we reached out to JSA for a replacement, we were advised that most of the bigger name signatures on it were questionable. We've just withdrawn it.

We don't sell signed pieces without a reputable LOA - either from JSA, PSA/DNA, or occasionally Beckett - and the original consignor of the piece wouldn't have given it to us without one, either. However, Jimmy has no recollection of having ever seen it before, so the LOA must have come from someone else.

All that being said, we'll be refunding the consignor (who won it from us several years ago) for his purchase.

-Al

[Snapolit1]

Yikes, I feel responsible for that ..... like I put the kiss of death on it. . . .



QUOTE=Al C.risafulli;2082239]Interesting comment on that piece, Steve. We sold it once before, back in 2018. The winning bidder misplaced the LOA, and so when we reached out to JSA for a replacement, we were advised that most of the bigger name signatures on it were questionable. We've just withdrawn it.

We don't sell signed pieces without a reputable LOA - either from JSA, PSA/DNA, or occasionally Beckett - and the original consignor of the piece wouldn't have given it to us without one, either. However, Jimmy has no recollection of having ever seen it before.

All that being said, we'll be refunding the consignor (who won it from us several years ago) for his purchase.

-Al[/QUOTE]

[drcy]

Sweet Caporal pins, Armor Coins, Tobacco silks and leathers, Police Gazette premiums etc. are more likely to be collected by baseball card than memorabilia collectors and, obviously, they aren't cards. They fall into the "trading card genre."

Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli

My opinion: the memorabilia and card markets are typically not tied to one another in any way other than "a rising tide lifts all boats."

I tend to think of a Venn diagram, with card people in one circle, autograph people in another circle, game worn in another, and memorabilia in a fourth - there are places they intersect, and certainly people who collect all four, but I don't think a run-up in one area negatively impacts prices in the other.

I wouldn't hesitate to run high-end memorabilia in an auction during a time when card prices were strong, and vice-versa.

-Al

[Al C.risafulli]

Yikes, I feel responsible for that ..... like I put the kiss of death on it.

Nah, Jimmy called me about it today. I had asked him to replace the missing LOA and when he reviewed the piece he wasn't comfortable with it. Because the LOA is missing, I don't know if JSA had initially authenticated the piece and changed their mind (not very likely), or if it was originally a typo on my part (i.e. I wrote "JSA" instead of PSA/DNA or GAI or whatever - much more likely). Regardless, it's withdrawn!

-Al

[Exhibitman]

Well if cards are way up I am going to sell into a price run-up and hold the items that haven't appreciated.

[Topnotchsy]

I imagine that many of the auction houses (LOTG excluded based on the above posts) are not chasing memorabilia as much at this point.

Cards are incredibly easy for them to list. For most cards getting attention these days, they are well-known cards, already graded (or submitted by the auction house) etc. It takes no time or work to research, they ship easily and inexpensively etc.

With prices going up like crazy, I don't imagine that auction houses are looking to chase down unique memorabilia pieces that are harder to find, harder to ship, harder to research and harder to photo. Especially since pricing on the hotter cards has blown pricing of memorabilia out of the water.

[bigfanNY]

There are two sides of this. I collect programs / scorecards and prices seem soft so definitely not looking to sell. But in the past year I purchased 1904 and 1905 NY Giants scorecards at less than half of what they sd for 2 or 3 years ago. I was underbidder on similar items 3 or 4 times. So happy to buy when the opportunity presents itself. Below is the 1905 example I picked up this month.

[puckpaul]

Good analysis. Agree with all. So much of the memorabilia I own and love, I bought (and paid up for!) because its unique and if you pass you might never see it again! Hard to part with it.

Originally Posted by perezfan

It is complete SH*T these days. I cannot believe how the good stuff has dried up. I attribute this to four things....

1. Cards were much more mass-produced than virtually all forms of memorabilia that we collect. There will never be a shortage of cards, dating back to Old Judge. There are just a ton out there in comparison to more unique memorabilia.

2. "Flippers" have become very prominent in the Card arena. Re-selling is at an all-time high because the market continues to be hot. So you will see tons of inventory available on eBay and in every auction. In fact there aren't even enough auctions to sell all of it. That's why 3 of the biggest (REA, Heritage and Goldin) have added their monthly events (mostly for lower-end offerings).

3. Collectors of unique/rare memorabilia are far more reluctant to part with beloved items, simply because they may never find another in their lifetimes. There will always be another '52 Topps Mantle or Green Ty Cobb T206. But there may never be another game-used Mantle Jersey or Ty Cobb Fan for a Fan. Especially in decent/unrestored condition.

4. Auction houses love to feature Cards. Higher-end examples sell for a lot of money, garner lots of bids, and have predictable prices (based on a plethora of documented sales history). So it is easy to set proper opening bid amounts and reasonable reserves (if applicable). Most importantly, they are small and easy to ship. Typically memorabilia is more bulky, more difficult to package/ship, and takes up more space in terms of storage.

I would say that (of those 4 reasons), collectors not letting go is the biggest reason for the current drought. I have a lot of nice cards that I will part with some day. But much of the rare memorabilia I have will accompany me to the grave. Just my observations over time.

[Mark70Z]

Man, I haven’t picked up any good Orioles memorabilia in quite some time. If any of you guys have any O’s stuff (for display purposes) taking up room please, please let me know. I have some gaps in my wall (and will have space in the curio...once I pick one up).

Love that piece Leon showed; just WOW!

[71buc]

Obviously I have an incredibly narrow focus. Due to this I seldom find quality memorabilia available. In all honestly not much of it was ever created for my niche in the first place. When it does appear it’s often muy caro and necessitates the sale of my cards. I’ve never sold any of my 71 Pirates memorabilia other than photos that I can recall.

I was at my childhood home yesterday and came across this 30”X30” store display that I acquired somewhere in my youth. My Mom threw nothing away. I miss her. I fear this rediscovered piece may take me down a new memorabilia collecting rabbit hole. Although it’s not as cool as Leon’s composite or the Dean brothers, it is “Rick James damn it!”

[Snapolit1]

Wow. That's awfully cool.

Originally Posted by 71buc

Obviously I have an incredibly narrow focus. Due to this I seldom find quality memorabilia available. In all honestly not much of it was ever created for my niche in the first place. When it does appear it’s often muy caro and necessitates the sale of my cards. I’ve never sold any of my 71 Pirates memorabilia other than photos that I can recall.

I was at my childhood home yesterday and came across this 30”X30” store display that I acquired somewhere in my youth. My Mom threw nothing away. I miss her. I fear this rediscovered piece may take me down a new memorabilia collecting rabbit hole. Although it’s not as cool as Leon’s composite or the Dean brothers, it is “Rick James damn it!”

[Leon]

Haven't been back to this thread in a while, guys. Thanks for the compliments. This came from the estate of Nixey Callahan, manager for the Pittsburgh Nationals, via a Hunt auction in 1991. It had a provenance letter with it at the time but it got lost somewhere in owner succession. His picture is the larger one in the upper right corner. If I am not mistaking, the current view on the population of these is that 1 was given to each executive and I am not sure more were given out. I think 4-6 of these particular 1903 AL types are known. Maybe someone knows more?
Mine does present nicely on the wall right behind my desk. It is the only thing on any of my walls. I have wood paneling and hate nails. For this I made an exception. One nail for the string.
.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by 71buc

Obviously I have an incredibly narrow focus. Due to this I seldom find quality memorabilia available. In all honestly not much of it was ever created for my niche in the first place. When it does appear it’s often muy caro and necessitates the sale of my cards. I’ve never sold any of my 71 Pirates memorabilia other than photos that I can recall.

I was at my childhood home yesterday and came across this 30”X30” store display that I acquired somewhere in my youth. My Mom threw nothing away. I miss her. I fear this rediscovered piece may take me down a new memorabilia collecting rabbit hole. Although it’s not as cool as Leon’s composite or the Dean brothers, it is “Rick James damn it!”

That’s Super Freaky!

[mr2686]

Super freaky indeed...and one (I'm surprised) you took home to Mother.

[puckpaul]

One more point that seems in play here on Memorabilia is that the scarcity of items means that appreciation isnt evident...stuff doesnt trade enough for prices to move up and entice sellers to move their items. Thus no frenzy gets created. Also, with no grading, comps are hard so you cant even crossover values from to
other items.

I have some really high end hockey wools and jerseys that I wouldnt want to part with. I am sure they are worth more than the considerable prices I paid. But there are no others of many of these items (eg. eddie shore’s jersey from his estate from the first NHL all star game after he hit Ace Bailey in the head).so it’s still mine to look at and enjoy. You really “feel” the history of the game with memorabilia moreso than cards (collect those too of course).