Babe Ruth source photo date?

[Bicem]

Anyone know for sure what exact year the photo used for Ruth's m101-6, York Caramel, Harrington Ice Cream, etc. is from?


(not mine)

[Snowman]

Wasn't 1920 his first season in NY? I don't know enough about vintage uniforms to know what he's wearing in this photo though. Is that a Yankees uniform?

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Wasn't 1920 his first season in NY? I don't know enough about vintage uniforms to know what he's wearing in this photo though. Is that a Yankees uniform?

its a sox uni.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

its a sox uni.

Thanks. I'm going with <= 1919 then, lol

Edit: I'm an idiot. No pinstripes lol

[nolemmings]

I think it's pretty safe to narrow it to either 1916 or 1917. Maybe if you checked the papers from the dates when the Red Sox were in Chicago those seasons you could find an even more precise date.

[Butch7999]

According to the Hall of Fame website's "Dressed to the Nines" pages, as researched by the late Mark Okkonen,
Red Sox road unis were essentially unchanged during the Babe's tenure there. The one slight subtle difference
might maybe perhaps be that their road caps appear to have been the same grey as the rest of their unis
in 1915 and '16, but distinctly paler than the rest of the uni from 1917 through '19, as in the photo in question.
Or maybe it's a trick of the pixels...
http://exhibits.baseballhalloffame.o...ar&increment=9

[Jobu]

Does a type 1 photo exist? The clarity on this doesn't look good enough, but from the photo you might id the 1.5 players in the dugout and get lucky with a short-tenured guy.

[Bicem]

I'm not aware of an original photo print that exists.

[mrreality68]

I have not seen a picture of that card either.

[WillowGrove]

hey Jeff - I checked boston newspapers for 195-1918 and while I didn't see that shot used I also checked for any ads from Felix Mendelsohn, the printer and promoter of the M101-5s - and found he first advertised 9/2/1917 looking for salesmen to sell this new set of 100 photos of ballplayers.

So it's possible he secured the photos (and did the printing) by then?

[nolemmings]

It is almost certain the photo was taken no later than 1917, because Mendelsohn first issued the m101-6 set that year, using the same photo of Ruth but captioning him with the Red Sox.

Mendelsohn advertised the m101-6 set in 1917 as containing "Exclusive Photographs. Never published before". The set in fact appears to bear that out, although I have not examined each subject.

The Ruth Red Sox version of m101-6 contains a Felix Mendelsohn copyright symbol, and he is known to have either taken the photos or hired someone for that purpose. You see them from time to time on ebay or at auction. By way of example, below is my Howard Ehmke photo and m101-6 --note the embossed Mendelsohn 1917 copyright on the photo (lower right):
Thus, it may be that the original photo came from him.


It is possible that Mendelsohn had the photo before 1917 but did not use it because he had others for his m101 and then e135 sets. If so I would guess it came from 1916 rather than 1915. Per Okkonen's book, which isn't infallible, the Red Sox wore road pinstripes in 1916 and 1917 but not 1915. I no longer have my high-res scan of the Ruth m101-6 card or I can't find it, but I believe there is a hint of pinstripe in what I see with my tired old eyes. I also note that three other Red Sox from m101-6 all show the same faint pinstripe look-- Barry, Hooper and Jones-- and two of those are shown in Comiskey Park.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

It is almost certain the photo was taken no later than 1917, because Mendelsohn first issued the m101-6 set that year, using the same photo of Ruth but captioning him with the Red Sox.

Mendelsohn advertised the m101-6 set in 1917 as containing "Exclusive Photographs. Never published before". The set in fact appears to bear that out, although I have not examined each subject.

The Ruth Red Sox version of m101-6 contains a Felix Mendelsohn copyright symbol, and he is known to have either taken the photos or hired someone for that purpose. You see them from time to time on ebay or at auction. By way of example, below is my Howard Ehmke photo and m101-6 --note the embossed Mendelsohn 1917 copyright on the photo (lower right):
Thus, it may be that the original photo came from him.


It is possible that Mendelsohn had the photo before 1917 but did not use it because he had others for his m101 and then e135 sets. If so I would guess it came from 1916 rather than 1915. Per Okkonen's book, which isn't infallible, the Red Sox wore road pinstripes in 1916 and 1917 but not 1915. I no longer have my high-res scan of the Ruth m101-6 card or I can't find it, but I believe there is a hint of pinstripe in what I see with my tired old eyes. I also note that three other Red Sox from m101-6 all show the same faint pinstripe look-- Barry, Hooper and Jones-- and two of those are shown in Comiskey Park.

Great information thanks.
I love the history of the sport and the players and this is great stuff

[Bicem]

Great stuff Todd, thank you!

I will say there are examples of 1915 road uniforms with the stripes though, the famous 5 pitchers shot taken right before the World Series for example.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Great stuff Todd, thank you!

I will say there are examples of 1915 road uniforms with the stripes though, the famous 5 pitchers shot taken right before the World Series for example.

Yeah, I have seen a few discrepancies in Okkonen's work, usually with different cap colors or styles than what he shows. No complaints though, his is a very valuable resource.

Mendelsohn was pretty diligent in his work, which is why I do not believe he would have used a 1915 photo of Ruth-- he would have preferred to wait for another shot. Several of his m101-6s show the player wearing the US Flag patch worn in 1917, and Hornsby (as well as Doak) is shown with a STL sleeve logo used in 1917. I think he was going for a "fresh" look when issuing the photo cards.

[Bicem]

Makes sense, I think 1916 or 1917 too, now just need to narrow down which. Thanks again!

[Tom S.]

If he was photographed during warmups before a start (and not a staged pic), there are only a handful of games that would fit in the 1916-17 timeframe per Baseball-Reference.com:

1916: June 17th or September 17th,
1917: May 18th, July 19th or August 21st.