HELP! Is this an authentic 1911 T3 Turkey Red?

[swackerl]

I need some help. I've only seen 2-3 Turkey Red cards in person, but I've been trying to get one. I finally won an auction last night:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/373651811279

The card is marked as original, but after comparing it with others I'm suspicious that it could be a replica. Comparing it with other examples of the same card the image of the card I won looks brighter and more washed out. For instance, when I compare it to this other listing (https://www.ebay.com/itm/233714166812) the image looks much less "rich". It looks more similar to the coloring of this Ty Cobb replica (https://www.etsy.com/hk-en/listing/7...ey-red-cabinet). It's hard to tell if the surface has that orange peel / leather look that the real cards have from the scans. I compared the back to this one and it does have the same glue look, but the text looks like a different color (https://www.ebay.com/itm/373635823535).

I know it's hard to tell whether these are just poor scans. I'm just looking for a "gut feel" from someone with experience to either give me confidence that it's real, or confirm that it looks suspect?

[conor912]

I can’t say for sure, but my first reaction is that that’s a hell of a lot of effort to age a $91 card. At first glance, I think you’re ok.

[Jobu]

It's legit.

[swackerl]

For my own understanding (as I plan to get more low-grade T3 cards), is the coloring difference just a poor quality scan or some other reason?

I understand that the card isn't a Mike Wheat reprint because it lacks the starburst on the rear corners, but other than that I'd like to learn how to identify fake vs authentic. I know to look for the texture. Anything else?

[rjackson44]

Pretty

[drcy]

Obviously, I don't have it in hand, but it looks fine to me.

Any difference in brightness is likely due to the scanning.

[Jay Wolt]

Looks OK to me

[frankbmd]

This one is legit, but somehow looks different. I just can't put my finger on it.

[swackerl]

Thanks to all for the confirmation. It eases my nerves. I'm not a big spender and so this is the most expensive card I've ever bought. I know it's not big money comparatively, but it is a big deal to me .

[G1911]

To break it down a bit further, your card may be different due to how it was stored.

Most turkey reds were displayed (look at the percentage with a pinhole vs. the percentage of pinholes in other sets). Most of the, have suffered some fading as a result, from light, the sun, and other sources. The chance you linked too is a heavily faded card, but a large percentage of the T#’s in the happy have some degree of this. Even most T cards not set up for cabinet or wall display have lost some of their richness over the years, most noticeable on the gold border sets but the images are affected too. It’s pretty normal, even though color lithographic T cards have aged much better than N cards.

I too have owned a couple of the “crisp” cards and they look almost too rich at first. 100% authentic.

The heavy back damage looks like glue stains, it was probably stored glued into a scrapbook or similar and kept the original vibrant color.

The other important factor is that some cards, depending on ink levels etc., just came off the press richer than others did.

It can also be a scanner thing, but there are definitely T3’s that actually look like this in hand.

I primarily collect the T9’s instead of T3’s, but personally I think that’s a good price to pay for a poor card that looks great. Image quality > condition on the Turkey Reds in my eyes.



EDIT: post 8 is a good example of a fading card, that we often don’t think of as fading because it’s pretty normal in T cards a century old. The red even seems to be fading into orange, the easiest ink to have the sun or light fade like this.

[swackerl]

Originally Posted by G1911

To break it down a bit further, your card may be different due to how it was stored.

Most turkey reds were displayed (look at the percentage with a pinhole vs. the percentage of pinholes in other sets). Most of the, have suffered some fading as a result, from light, the sun, and other sources. The chance you linked too is a heavily faded card, but a large percentage of the T#’s in the happy have some degree of this. Even most T cards not set up for cabinet or wall display have lost some of their richness over the years, most noticeable on the gold border sets but the images are affected too. It’s pretty normal, even though color lithographic T cards have aged much better than N cards.

I too have owned a couple of the “crisp” cards and they look almost too rich at first. 100% authentic.

The heavy back damage looks like glue stains, it was probably stored glued into a scrapbook or similar and kept the original vibrant color.

The other important factor is that some cards, depending on ink levels etc., just came off the press richer than others did.

It can also be a scanner thing, but there are definitely T3’s that actually look like this in hand.

I primarily collect the T9’s instead of T3’s, but personally I think that’s a good price to pay for a poor card that looks great. Image quality > condition on the Turkey Reds in my eyes.



EDIT: post 8 is a good example of a fading card, that we often don’t think of as fading because it’s pretty normal in T cards a century old. The red even seems to be fading into orange, the easiest ink to have the sun or light fade like this.

Very helpful insight. Thanks for sharing! I thought it was a good price too and plan to use it for display.

[Tao_Moko]

If it were a Cobb, I'd take a harder look. Looks legit to me. Great display piece.

[shammus]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

This one is legit, but somehow looks different. I just can't put my finger on it.

Frank, it looks like yours is actually missing the red color pass that would have taken place during the original print run. That's why the socks, belt, name on the jersey, etc... look a little different. At least that's what it looks like to me for what that's worth

[Leon]

Originally Posted by swackerl

I need some help. I've only seen 2-3 Turkey Red cards in person, but I've been trying to get one. I finally won an auction last night:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/373651811279

The card is marked as original, but after comparing it with others I'm suspicious that it could be a replica. Comparing it with other examples of the same card the image of the card I won looks brighter and more washed out. For instance, when I compare it to this other listing (https://www.ebay.com/itm/233714166812) the image looks much less "rich". It looks more similar to the coloring of this Ty Cobb replica (https://www.etsy.com/hk-en/listing/7...ey-red-cabinet). It's hard to tell if the surface has that orange peel / leather look that the real cards have from the scans. I compared the back to this one and it does have the same glue look, but the text looks like a different color (https://www.ebay.com/itm/373635823535).

I know it's hard to tell whether these are just poor scans. I'm just looking for a "gut feel" from someone with experience to either give me confidence that it's real, or confirm that it looks suspect?

Looks fine...and a good buy
.

.

[drcy]

Red ink tends to fade the fastest in sunlight, such as if the T3 was displayed for a long time many years ago.

[swackerl]

Originally Posted by drcy

Red ink tends to fade the fastest in sunlight, such as if the T3 was displayed for a long time many years ago.

I received the card and it absolutely looks original (has the texture and sharp color). I think the seller just had a poor quality scan. I attached a photo that shows the card in a toploader. The color is much richer than the scan implied, so I don't think the red is faded much.

[Mark17]

You got a great deal! And the texture is the thing to look for as you mentioned.

At one time I had over 70 of them, and the other distinctive characteristic was the smell. They seemed to have a distinctive, not unpleasant odor, even though I got them from probably 20 or 30 different sources.

[jayshum]

Great looking card of a beautiful set for a great price. Lately, it's been hard to find T3s for what you paid that aren't really rough.

[swackerl]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Great looking card of a beautiful set for a great price. Lately, it's been hard to find T3s for what you paid that aren't really rough.

I think the back is what made the price so low, comparatively. It looks like someone gave it a bath in glue. If the back was more typical I think this would have cost $130-150 like others seem to lately.