Schrödinger's Card

[JollyElm]

A new thought experiment illustrating when a baseball card is simultaneously a PSA 9 and NOT a PSA 9...

1972seaverkelloggscrack.jpg

[Cliff Bowman]

For nearly twenty years I would scour eBay or COMC looking for rare back variations of 1971, 1974, 1976, 1977, and 1979 Kellogg's 3-D cards. I built up a pretty big collection and spent quite a bit of money on them. I have found somewhere between ten and fifteen of the very rare 74 Ron Santo Cubs back version. Every time I would look through my Kellogg's cards I would see some with cracks and continuously replaced them. It finally got to a point a couple of years that I just gave up. I don't even look for them anymore, it's just a waste of money and I'm depleting the supply of finite Kellogg's cards. This 1974 Wilbur Wood error version was perfect when I got it, now look at it.

[swarmee]

Those would be great to send back in under a PSA Grade Review... ;-)

[JollyElm]

It's such a shame about Kellogg's 3-D cards. Grabbing one out of a big box of flavored sugar (OK, I mean cereal) was one of the best things ever when you were a kid, but who knew how badly they would curl up and crack over time. Tony the Tiger kept that secret to himself. If that didn't happen, how frickin' awesome would it be collecting those thick, magically colorful sets with all of the star power and a wealth of variations?? The funny thing is, when I see those cards now (on the left coast) at shows or in shops (of course, I mean back before the end of the world came), they look perfect. The lack of humidity is such a beautiful thing for those cards, so I wonder if the ones that originated from boxes of Frosted Flakes out here will always remain perfect, unlike their New York (which seemingly has a 90% cracking quotient) counterparts?? Oh well.

Another curious thing to think about is the POP reports. Not necessarily PSA specific, but overall and in general. With the seemingly high percentage of Kellogg's cards cracking over time, if you have a really nice one (graded or ungraded) in your collection, chances are the number of equivalent cards out there is much smaller than you could imagine.

[gman]

Are y'all aware of any 1968 Topps 3D cards that have been encapsulated only to show signs of cracking years later?

[71buc]

I live on the left coast. I have a few hundred of these from my childhood. All of them remain untracked. Ironically I purchased a 1970 Bench and a 1971 Mays slabbed as PSA 9s. Both of them cracked within a year.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by 71buc

I live on the left coast. I have a few hundred of these from my childhood. All of them remain untracked. Ironically I purchased a 1970 Bench and a 1971 Mays slabbed as PSA 9s. Both of them cracked within a year.

That sucks. Did those come from sellers on the east coast? It's a shame what a crapshoot buying Kellogg's cards has become. Too bad.

[savedfrommyspokes]

The images seen above are the reason why the 73 Kellogg's set is my favorite Kellogg's set.

[71buc]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

That sucks. Did those come from sellers on the east coast? It's a shame what a crapshoot buying Kellogg's cards has become. Too bad.

Yes they both originated from NY

[JollyElm]

Ran across this Billy Williams on eBay today, so I thought I'd bump this old thread for some laughs.

He suffers from the same fate plaguing the Tom Seaver card, and could really use some Botox...

1972kelloggswilliams.jpg


And every day is a fine day to look at this 1974 Topps #456 Dave Winfield rookie card. The poster child for the question, "Does PSA ever put multiple qualifiers on a label?"

The label indicates it has a stain, but the image itself is falling off the side of the card. Did the people at PSA flip a coin to determine which qualifier should be put on the label? Is there a hierarchy? (Here's where someone who takes themselves way too seriously is a going to post the official PSA hierarchy of qualifiers to enlighten us. Ugh.)

1974toppswinfield.jpg

I hope no one cracks it out of the slab, uses pantyhose to remove the stain, and then resubmits it only to wait a couple of years to have it returned with an OC qualifier. What a terrible waste of a pair of pantyhose.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by gman

Are y'all aware of any 1968 Topps 3D cards that have been encapsulated only to show signs of cracking years later?

My Swoboda PSA 6 has a developing crack running from the left border through his hands and I've seen others with it in this spot as wellas well. It also has pull marks and possibly a second crack developing between the team circle and cap.

[ALR-bishop]

I have a set of the Topps 68 3D cards. Only 1/2 of them are graded. So far no issues but wonder if they are more or less likely to crack graded.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

"Does PSA ever put multiple qualifiers on a label?"
The label indicates it has a stain, but the image itself is falling off the side of the card. Did the people at PSA flip a coin to determine which qualifier should be put on the label? Is there a hierarchy?

If you want the true answer, here's what I understand to be the case: PSA never puts multiple qualifiers on a flip. The second damage would decrease the card grade and the first qualifier would remain.
The qualifier that is put on the flip, according to what I read, is the LEAST obvious one. So on that card, if they were following the rules, it would have gotten like a 3(ST) since the miscut/off-centeredness is obvious. However, I would bet that since it got an 8Q, it may not actually have a stain but the flip is a typo/mechanical error.

[Casey2296]

I have a 70 Clemente 3-d that I collected as a kid sitting in a binder pocket, it's pristine and beautiful. I don't dare touch it, pull it out of the sleeve to scan it, never even stare at it directly always with a sideways glance and never too long for fear of it cracking like a picture of Dorian Gray.

[ALR-bishop]

[Exhibitman]

The 1970 Kelloggs cards I've had for 40 years always stored flat in top loaders or in card savers are uncracked and as nice as the day I got them.



I find it increasingly difficult to get uncracked 1970s Kelloggs cards 'in the wild'. Even the few i find often end up with a cracked corner from shipping.

I haven't looked at this one in a while and I am afraid

[mortimer brewster]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

The images seen above are the reason why the 73 Kellogg's set is my favorite Kellogg's set.

Same here. It's the only Kellogg's set I have completed. Several ungraded cards I purchased in the past few years have suffered post purchase cracking.
1972 Torre 1980 Ryan. Who knows what environmental conditions these cards were subjected to when circulated. Cards I purchased in the late 1970's early 1980's are all fine.

[metroac]

Doesn't all this constitute an argument against slabbing these Kellogg's issues? I don't see many posts from folks saying that their slabbed cards are fine.

[Exhibitman]

I would never buy a slabbed one again. The reality is that if the card has any curl it is probably going to crack at some point. You can't tell whether that is the case in a slab. The modern versions of lenticular or 3D cards have a completely different feel to them, typically thicker and stiffer, and I would be surprised if they had the same issues going forward.

[UKCardGuy]

Interesting conversation. Is the assumption that slabs crack more than raw? If so, I wonder if that has anything to do with how slabs are sealed?

I'm putting together a Kelloggs run 1970-1983. I got my 1980-83 sets as a kid and I've been adding the 1970-79 sets over the past couple of years.

I place each card in a penny sleeve and then in a toploader. I haven't had any cracking across any of these.

[jchcollins]

This "Gem" is currently on eBay, where the seller insists that the crack is on the case and not the card. Huh?!?!

[jchcollins]

Interesting thread on the Kellogg's. I currently have two, a '70 Rod Carew and a '74 Reggie Jackson - both in PSA 8 slabs with no cracking that I can see. The slabs are the older ones with the grade and number on the same line; if not at least 20 years old I would guess they are getting close. Both cards looked to have been bagged in the slab as you sometimes see PSA do with odd sizes.

I wonder if it has something to do with how the cards were stored over time? Like if the cards were immediately pressed flat back in the day and kept that way, do those crack? Or were some of the ones that are doing this now allowed to curl up over time, and only then put into slabs much much later? I would be intrigued to know if that were the case.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

Interesting conversation. Is the assumption that slabs crack more than raw? If so, I wonder if that has anything to do with how slabs are sealed?

I'm putting together a Kelloggs run 1970-1983. I got my 1980-83 sets as a kid and I've been adding the 1970-79 sets over the past couple of years.

I place each card in a penny sleeve and then in a toploader. I haven't had any cracking across any of these.

The general rule of thumb is that it is all based on heat and humidity. In New York, it is hot and muggy as heck in the summer months and then it cools down and returns to 'normal.' All of my friends and I got our hands on as many 3-D cards as possible, and they all ended up curling and cracking over time. It was unavoidable and inevitable. Out here in California the weather is much more evenly mild, with no real extreme (to me at least) hikes or drops in the temperatures. (For instance, the thermostat in NY would go below zero in the winter and up over 100 in the summer.) Winters are much warmer than the east coast and there is a precipitous lack of humidity in the summertime. I don't sweat like a goat out here just walking around on a sunny day....which wasn't the case in NY. Anyway, I have seen untold numbers of Kellogg's cards at shows (I want to buy them, but don't because the fear of cracking is so ingrained in my soul) out here, and the cards 'all' lay flat without bends or cracks. Sure, the dealers would just leave the bad ones at home, I get it, but I honestly don't believe that's the case. It seems that if the Kellogg's cards were taken out of a Frosted Flakes boxes in 1972 and they have spent their entire lives out here, I don't believe they'll crack. (No, I haven't any science to to base that assumption on.)

Just an addendum. Were I to buy 3-D cards off of eBay, I would see where the seller resides AND ask him if the cards originated in his area, or if he bought them from someone from somewhere else.