19th century cards

[GaryPassamonte]

I just did a quick glance at the May pick up thread and found only two 19th century cards in 147 posts. With all the fervor in almost all other card sectors, why has the 19th century been left behind? Are 19th century collectors a dying breed or have younger collectors not "advanced" to the roots of baseball and the cards of the era yet?

[BobbyStrawberry]

I think your second point is definitely true; it seems to me that many collectors are simply holding their 19th century stuff. Seems harder to find 19th century cards FS everywhere, not just on here.

[Jcfowler6]

I’m holding onto my few. Here’s a card because all threads need one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RCMcKenzie]

Here's a recent addition, Shorty Fuller OJ with Buck Barker style notations on back. Also shown, Fuller's Pelicans cabinet...

[Leon]

There seems to be a lack of interest from what I have seen. I like them a lot but admittedly they aren't my focus. Maybe a lot of collectors just have a few and aren't focused on them?

Picked this one up in the last few months.

[Casey2296]

If anybody knows where I can find them I'd love some more of these in this condition.
-

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Here's a recent addition, Shorty Fuller OJ with Buck Barker style notations on back. Also shown, Fuller's Pelicans cabinet...

That Old Judge indeed has Buck Barker's handwriting on back. Also, I can't quite make it out because it looks like it was partially erased, but on the bottom it should also indicate the last name of whom Buck received this card from in 1958.

Brian

[jcmtiger]

Can’t find any Detroit that I need. Of course what I need are tough finds.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Interesting. This is a recent pickup of mine. Could this be Barker's handwriting as well?

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

That Old Judge indeed has Buck Barker's handwriting on back. Also, I can't quite make it out because it looks like it was partially erased, but on the bottom it should also indicate the last name of whom Buck received this card from in 1958.

Brian

[riggs336]

Here's a Tim Keefe I picked up on Facebook.

[the-illini]

IMO most of the "new" money coming in to the hobby is spent on mainstream cards of the bigger stars or more widely known sets like T206

No one wants to spend 1k for a nice OJ of Tommy McCarthy

[GaryPassamonte]

Originally Posted by the-illini

IMO most of the "new" money coming in to the hobby is spent on mainstream cards of the bigger stars or more widely known sets like T206

No one wants to spend 1k for a nice OJ of Tommy McCarthy

But someone did for a Yum Yum Ewing, Chris. Great card!

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

If anybody knows where I can find them I'd love some more of these in this condition.
-

Phil, those are beautiful. Color always brings the point home.

[bcbgcbrcb]

As previously mentioned, the investors are after the GOATS, very difficult to compare the modern game to the 1880’s-1890’s, where the likes of Cap Anson would be recognized as the greatest of that era. I bet you that 95%+ of investors have never heard of Cap Anson without google searching him.

The best way to gauge true collector interest is that almost every BST ad on Net54 in the 19th century section is BUYING this HOF’er or that HOF’er, rarely, if ever, SELLING a HOF’er. Look it up.

[Bartholomew_Bump_Bailey]

*deleted/mistake/duplicate*

[Bartholomew_Bump_Bailey]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

As previously mentioned, the investors are after the GOATS, very difficult to compare the modern game to the 1880’s-1890’s, where the likes of Cap Anson would be recognized as the greatest of that era. I bet you that 95%+ of investors have never heard of Cap Anson without google searching him..

Sweet!!! I'm in the 5%

And I was told the Simpsons would "rot my brain"....HA

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by GaryPassamonte

But someone did for a Yum Yum Ewing, Chris. Great card!

Try saying “Yum Yum Ewing” ten times fast.

[the-illini]

Originally Posted by GaryPassamonte

But someone did for a Yum Yum Ewing, Chris. Great card!

Ha thanks Gary!

Andrew - Yum Yum Ewing doesn't flow right off the tongue. I wonder who decided to name a tobacco brand "Yum Yum"

[trdcrdkid]

Originally Posted by the-illini

Ha thanks Gary!

Andrew - Yum Yum Ewing doesn't flow right off the tongue. I wonder who decided to name a tobacco brand "Yum Yum"

I'm sure it was named after the character in The Mikado, which was massively popular in the late 1880s. There were tons of Mikado-themed trade cards issued at the time, including many picturing Yum Yum.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Interesting. This is a recent pickup of mine. Could this be Barker's handwriting as well?

Image is kinda small, but it does look like it is possibly Buck's handwriting. Post a bigger image and I should be able to more positively identify.

Brian

[BobbyStrawberry]

Thanks Brian, here is a larger image of the back.

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Image is kinda small, but it does look like it is possibly Buck's handwriting. Post a bigger image and I should be able to more positively identify.

Brian

[brianp-beme]

That appears to be Buck's handwriting...always fun to see it on cards other than Zeenuts.

Brian

[mouschi]

The noise level for new stuff is incredibly high. I see 19th century baseball as a much smaller voice - but a voice that has a whole lot more meaningful things to say.

For years, I was caught up in new stuff, but once I discovered 19th century baseball, I couldn't get enough. I think it is all a matter of educating newer collectors about 19th century baseball.

I love being able to talk to others about this time period, and have perked up more ears than I can count. It is one of the greatest "untapped" time periods in the history of our sport - for the 2021 collector, that is.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Good to know! I appreciate the input, Brian

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

That appears to be Buck's handwriting...always fun to see it on cards other than Zeenuts.

Brian

[G1911]

1) Lack of recognizable names today restricts the 19th market to people who are interested in that period, eliminating the #investor crowd. There is also not an iconic card to drive interest to the rest of the set. most hobbyists know T206 Wagner, 1952 Topps Mantle's, 33 Lajoie's, even things like T206 Cobb's. There are some great and very expensive 19th century cards, but there's not really an iconic card to the rest of the hobby that draws more eyes to it.

2) It's a struggle for set collectors. Sets are for the most part extremely rare and difficult, most of them practically impossible for even the wealthier. The easier ones are usually not really baseball sets like N28/N29. Those of us primarily interested in set collecting thus tend to stick with other things. I'm sure someone has an example of a set for which this is not true, but it is mostly true.

3) Maybe it's just me, but a mangled T206 is still a nice looking image. Fading has ruined the appearance of a large number of the surviving 19th century cards that are mostly photographic. Later photographic cards mostly do not have this problem.

4) Tied to 3 somewhat, the grading companies appear to ignore or mostly ignore fading and stock damage (frequently slabbing excellent old Judge's which are obviously heavily faded and damaged) further discourages the #invest, and also some mid-grade collectors. The registry is also less of a factor, a little bit of cards being "too rare" going on here.

5) It is difficult to dip one's toes into the 19th century water. Collectors tend to start at the low-end of the scale, picking up a common T206 or something as a first of an era. This is still a pretty cheap "that's cool" whim buy, you can get a T205 or T206 for less than $20, a Goudey for less than $10 to get a card from an era collectors today didn't witness and have memories of. 19th century baseball, there isn't such a common low-price buy-in to serve as a starting point and have that "that's cool" turn into "wow, I want to get more of these!". Most people don't start with the marque cards outside of the #invest crowd, which other factors discourage.


I like 19th century baseball, I love seeing the cards posted here, but I don't have many myself primarily for reason 3, I love set-building and sets are generally either too rare or too expensive for me to justify doing. Just some thoughts.

[GaryPassamonte]

Originally Posted by G1911

1) Lack of recognizable names today restricts the 19th market to people who are interested in that period, eliminating the #investor crowd. There is also not an iconic card to drive interest to the rest of the set. most hobbyists know T206 Wagner, 1952 Topps Mantle's, 33 Lajoie's, even things like T206 Cobb's. There are some great and very expensive 19th century cards, but there's not really an iconic card to the rest of the hobby that draws more eyes to it.

2) It's a struggle for set collectors. Sets are for the most part extremely rare and difficult, most of them practically impossible for even the wealthier. The easier ones are usually not really baseball sets like N28/N29. Those of us primarily interested in set collecting thus tend to stick with other things. I'm sure someone has an example of a set for which this is not true, but it is mostly true.

3) Maybe it's just me, but a mangled T206 is still a nice looking image. Fading has ruined the appearance of a large number of the surviving 19th century cards that are mostly photographic. Later photographic cards mostly do not have this problem.

4) Tied to 3 somewhat, the grading companies appear to ignore or mostly ignore fading and stock damage (frequently slabbing excellent old Judge's which are obviously heavily faded and damaged) further discourages the #invest, and also some mid-grade collectors. The registry is also less of a factor, a little bit of cards being "too rare" going on here.

5) It is difficult to dip one's toes into the 19th century water. Collectors tend to start at the low-end of the scale, picking up a common T206 or something as a first of an era. This is still a pretty cheap "that's cool" whim buy, you can get a T205 or T206 for less than $20, a Goudey for less than $10 to get a card from an era collectors today didn't witness and have memories of. 19th century baseball, there isn't such a common low-price buy-in to serve as a starting point and have that "that's cool" turn into "wow, I want to get more of these!". Most people don't start with the marque cards outside of the #invest crowd, which other factors discourage.


I like 19th century baseball, I love seeing the cards posted here, but I don't have many myself primarily for reason 3, I love set-building and sets are generally either too rare or too expensive for me to justify doing. Just some thoughts.

Excellent analysis.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

As previously mentioned, the investors are after the GOATS, very difficult to compare the modern game to the 1880’s-1890’s, where the likes of Cap Anson would be recognized as the greatest of that era. I bet you that 95%+ of investors have never heard of Cap Anson without google searching him.

The best way to gauge true collector interest is that almost every BST ad on Net54 in the 19th century section is BUYING this HOF’er or that HOF’er, rarely, if ever, SELLING a HOF’er. Look it up.

It is not PC to buy Anson cards. The new money wouldn't be interested.

[oldjudge]

Agree. It’s tough to spend a lot of money on cards of the guy most responsible for the institution of the color barrier in baseball. What if some day his plaque is removed from Cooperstown?

[Exhibitman]

Excellent analysis, Greg.

I've purchased a few N cards over the last year or so, but at least for me, they are purely opportunistic purchases. Except for a few 'mainstream' issues these are cards that just don't show up often. That may be part of the answer as to why we don't see much 'action' on them. I have a want list of 19th century cards that I do not expect to satisfy except by happenstance, as was the case with the most recent one I picked up.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Originally Posted by Leon

There seems to be a lack of interest from what I have seen. I like them a lot but admittedly they aren't my focus. Maybe a lot of collectors just have a few and aren't focused on them?

Picked this one up in the last few months.

Leon, the Brooklyn Minis are by far my favorite Old Judge cards. Nice pick up




.

Because of Samuel Barkley he was one of the players who changed the name of the Pittsburgh Alleghenies to the Pirates

[chlankf]

My recent OJ pick up. Not a lot of Des Moines cards to be found lately.

[oldjudge]

Beautiful image Craig!

[chlankf]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Beautiful image Craig!

Thanks Jay. Probably one of the nicest in my collection.

[wondo]

Love 'em - but only own one. And, it's because he's a Penn Stater! Got this from a fellow board member.

[rhodeskenm]

Hi Gary and others

There is a small but growing new gem of 19 century collectors. I am a boomer but two younger friends and I have started a private Facebook group called Old Judge Collectors or OJC. We have 73 members so far, our aim is to share knowledge, show off new cards, rap about 19th c baseball snd occasionally help each other get new cards.

I still use net54 for buy sell etc but our site is fun and I think it will stoke next gen on 19 C cards. If you look at history of sales (vcp) it has always been a niche market, but I feel there is hope snd interest in keeping it alive.

Anyone interested can friend me on Facebook or net messenger.

[GaryPassamonte]

Which Ken Rhodes are you on facebook?

[Yoda]

Leon, I wonder what your FBH Kelly would go for in today's market? I suppose you have thought about it, too.

[GaryPassamonte]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Leon, I wonder what your FBH Kelly would go for in today's market? I suppose you have thought about it, too.

My all-time favorite baseball card. This is not mine.

[rhodeskenm]

Hi Gary

I am Princeton grad referenced in my bio and my pic is of me with my then 18 year old son at a sports bar near Penn St (he went there)

Best

Ken Rhodes

[packs]

I've missed out on a few Whitney with Dog cards on eBay this year. That card is always a fight.

[obcmac]

Just starting to get my feet wet on the 19th century side. Fun & new area for me.

[GaryPassamonte]

Originally Posted by obcmac

Just starting to get my feet wet on the 19th century side. Fun & new area for me.

That's a pretty good opener!

[mouschi]

Originally Posted by obcmac

just starting to get my feet wet on the 19th century side. Fun & new area for me.

want

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by obcmac

Just starting to get my feet wet on the 19th century side. Fun & new area for me.

I would say that's more like jumping into the deep end head first...