SMH -- about a million trimmed Leafs posted on Blowout

[Peter_Spaeth]

It's almost funny except it isn't. Man. Stunning.



https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=291

Plenty of others if you back up from this page n the thread.

[Casey2296]

Props to those blowout Guys, doing the Lords work one card at a time.

[wazoo]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Props to those blowout Guys, doing the Lords work one card at a time.

Or a million lol.

[Wanaselja]

I check there before I make any new purchase. You can search PSA cert numbers in the main forum to see if they turn up in the numerous trim threads.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...s#post14725942

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's almost funny except it isn't. Man. Stunning.



https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=291

Plenty of others if you back up from this page n the thread.

It's sad that it's just more or less, expected nowadays. How many graded cards have been trimmed or altered in some way? More than anyone can count.

And sure, we're the section of the hobby that cares about it, we don't want to see it happen. But to the masses? I don't think it matters to half of them and the other half probably believes that a major grading company gets it write and wouldn't slab trimmed cards with a number grade.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by wazoo

Or a million lol.

All the 48/49 Leaf sets have been literally butchered. If you have them in slabs and you care, you really ought to research them if you haven't already.

[wazoo]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

All the 48/49 Leaf sets have been literally butchered. If you have them in slabs and you care, you really ought to research them if you haven't already.

Oh I believe you I was trying to be funny haha

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

All the 48/49 Leaf sets have been literally butchered. If you have them in slabs and you care, you really ought to research them if you haven't already.

Trust is a funny thing, all it would take is a few famous social media collectors to call out all the trimming on that set and turn their back on them, the values would plummet.

Except for Ted Shermans "pulled from the pack with my own hands" Leafs, those prices would double overnight.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Trust is a funny thing, all it would take is a few famous social media collectors to call out all the trimming on that set and turn their back on them, the values would plummet.

Except for Ted Shermans "pulled from the pack with my own hands" Leafs, those prices would double overnight.

The flip is all, son.

[Exhibitman]

New PSA spokesperson team:

[todeen]

Dang! I had hopes to eventually pick some up of Reds players. It's really sad, all I can say.

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[todeen]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

New PSA spokesperson team:

Hahahahahaha very nice, very nice

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[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The flip is all, son.

Until it isn't. Until wide borders are more valuable than narrow borders.

[Wanaselja]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Props to those blowout Guys, doing the Lords work one card at a time.

Those guys are great. I made my largest purchase last year. After doing my own research prior I reached out to one of them for a 2nd opinion. I didn’t expect a response but within an hour had a well researched corroboration of my own conclusions. For those of us that care they’re providing an invaluable service for this hobby.

[Tyruscobb]

The scammers love all the 1948/1949 Leaf sports cards. Between cross grades, honest regrades, and altered regrades, the pop reports are almost useless.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Tyruscobb

The scammers love all the 1948/1949 Leaf sports cards. Between cross grades, honest regrades, and altered regrades, the pop reports are almost useless.

Almost makes me happy no one gives a damn about boxing cards...

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

All the 48/49 Leaf sets have been literally butchered. If you have them in slabs and you care, you really ought to research them if you haven't already.

I am glad that I measured and bought my Jackie Robinson RC back in the 80s. I would hate to be collecting them today.

[GasHouseGang]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Almost makes me happy no one gives a damn about boxing cards...

I was thinking that too. Slightly less likely to be modified with evil intent.

[jad22]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Almost makes me happy no one gives a damn about boxing cards...

1951 Topps Ringside. I thought there was a bunch of examples of that one being trimmed.

[swarmee]

Ah. I didn't see this thread, but I made one for each in the post-war baseball and the football forums down below. I think they had been sitting on some for quite a while, and with Worthpoint shutting down card history, probably convinced them to either get back at it or release what they've been finding.

[Johnny630]

This is all great information but honestly it hasn’t stopped this hobby’s growth one bit. Sadly it’s been proven people spending money don’t care as long as it’s in a slab.

Trimming and Altering will Continue there are zero repercussions for doing it.

[Tao_Moko]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Until it isn't. Until wide borders are more valuable than narrow borders.

+1

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

This is all great information but honestly it hasn’t stopped this hobby’s growth one bit. Sadly it’s been proven people spending money don’t care as long as it’s in a slab.

Trimming and Altering will Continue there are zero repercussions for doing it.

Zero impact, being candid about it.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Zero impact, being candid about it.

Exactly. COVID And it it’s impact on most all Card Show shut downs have pretty much assured the trimmed/altered card story gets pushed to the back burner if not forgotten about Or dismissed Period.

[hcv123]

of all the cards outed on blowout? Anyone possibly have such a thing in Excel?

[Wanaselja]

Originally Posted by hcv123

of all the cards outed on blowout? Anyone possibly have such a thing in Excel?

The easiest thing to do is search the PSA Cert number in the main forum. I also refers to these links.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...s#post14725942

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2697

[swarmee]

CaptSpaulding was making one and Peter would cross-post it over here. But just searching the Cert number is inadequate. Maybe searching the first six digits of the cert number would get you the majority of cards listed which were in the same submission, because any card in the same submission as a trimmed card would also be suspect.

Also, there are many posted that are just in screen captures. So not text searchable.

Oh, and PWCC's Brent Huigens mentioned during his famous Youtube interview that he would create a database of known trimmed cert numbers, but it hasn't come out since it's not Monday yet...

[Peter_Spaeth]

For a PSA card the best way to research it IMO, in addition of course to seeing who is selling it and to scrutinize the scan closely and the card when you get it, is to search the cert and surrounding certs on the PSA website. They provide key information such as who first sold the card, if they are able to pick that up from ebay or certain auctions. And sometimes you just get a bad gut feel from what else is in the sub, like if it's all 10s on modern stuff.

I don't think anyone has a complete database of outed certs. I had one for a while but didn't keep up with it after early 2020. In any event the outed certs are, IMO, a small fraction of the altered cards out there. Probably very small.

If you care, do your diligence.

[perezfan]

Glad I collected my Leafs when I did. I would not even touch them today, given their extreme uncertainty and PSA's incompetence/favoritism.

Note how virtually all of the new revelations on Blowout are PSA-graded. The BODA sleuths provide a more invaluable service than PSA... and for no fees whatsoever. Those guys truly are a blessing to the hobby.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

For a PSA card the best way to research it IMO, in addition of course to seeing who is selling it and to scrutinize the scan closely and the card when you get it, is to search the cert and surrounding certs on the PSA website. They provide key information such as who first sold the card, if they are able to pick that up from ebay or certain auctions. And sometimes you just get a bad gut feel from what else is in the sub, like if it's all 10s on modern stuff.

I don't think anyone has a complete database of outed certs. I had one for a while but didn't keep up with it after early 2020. In any event the outed certs are, IMO, a small fraction of the altered cards out there. Probably very small.

If you care, do your diligence.

Completely agree. Even though BODA has exposed thousands of altered cards in PSA numbered slabs, there are easily a dozen times this number in circulation.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Note how virtually all of the new revelations on Blowout are PSA-graded. The BODA sleuths provide a more invaluable service than PSA... and for no fees whatsoever. Those guys truly are a blessing to the hobby.

That's because that's where the money is. The fact that the majority of outed ones were also previously in PSA holders is one of the main reasons they're findable: VCP, PWCC, Worthpoint, etc. The original sales provide a helpful timeline to reduce the scope of a certain card of which ones could be the same card pre or post-alteration.

Will Nat Turner be the savior of PSA? Or will he roll with the company line? By retaining Joe Orlando, I think we see the initial answer.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I would still like to understand what legitimate reason SGC had for moving to random certs.

[aconte]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I would still like to understand what legitimate reason SGC had for moving to random certs.

Zero! Same with not being able to look up a cert #.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by aconte

Zero! Same with not being able to look up a cert #.

And for that matter, at one point this company did have a guaranty on their grading which seems to be gone or someplace I cannot seem to find.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by aconte

Zero! Same with not being able to look up a cert #.

You can't look up cert numbers with SGC? I didn't know that.

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[vthobby]

Originally Posted by todeen

You can't look up cert numbers with SGC? I didn't know that.

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Tim, Don't believe everything you read. You can.

https://gosgc.com/auth-code

Peace, Mike

[swarmee]

SGC's lookup and set registry was down for about a year while they updated their database and numbering structure. I think it reopened July of 2020. I don't think they ever gave a "real" reason for getting rid of their original "submission-card" setup they originally had. The timing of their change definitely made it seem like they were protecting fraudsters whose submissions were being outed.

[bxb]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's almost funny except it isn't. Man. Stunning.



https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=291

Plenty of others if you back up from this page n the thread.

Dang. Glad I don't own any 48 Leafs any more.

Look how far back this goes. And which set is next.

[chalupacollects]

Does one now get a prize for compiling a complete set of proven altered cards?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

Tim, Don't believe everything you read. You can.

https://gosgc.com/auth-code

Peace, Mike

My point is, you can't see what's in the same submission with a given card because they went to random certs.

[2dueces]

No matter what subject if there is money to be made there will be
Dishonest characters trying to make money the easy way.
TPG were created to not only put a numerical number for value but
Protect the consumer from fakes and fraud. Unfortunately
they’ve missed the boat more times than can be counted.
6.5 million card backlog and counting is a serious problem also.
Are they trying to push through their orders and mistakes are made?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by 2dueces

No matter what subject if there is money to be made there will be
Dishonest characters trying to make money the easy way.
TPG were created to not only put a numerical number for value but
Protect the consumer from fakes and fraud. Unfortunately
they’ve missed the boat more times than can be counted.
6.5 million card backlog and counting is a serious problem also.
Are they trying to push through their orders and mistakes are made?

Regarding the part in bold....

Perhaps some of this. But the vast majority of these PSA "mistakes" were errantly slabbed very many years before any backlog.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Almost makes me happy no one gives a damn about boxing cards...

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=7306

[swarmee]

Yeah, this one is in Post 7154 as well:

[glynparson]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Exactly. COVID And it it’s impact on most all Card Show shut downs have pretty much assured the trimmed/altered card story gets pushed to the back burner if not forgotten about Or dismissed Period.

Yeah if only there was a tool to disseminate information besides face to face at shows. Seriously far easier to spread information online than face to face but yeah less shows are why almost nobody cares. Give me a damn break.

[Peter_Spaeth]

More and more keep getting posted, definitely worth another look at the most recent pages of the thread.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=295

[RCMcKenzie]

Here's one with a wide border from my collection. I was thinking I might be able to trade it to one of the collectors whose name is "Pat".

[Peter_Spaeth]

Combined resource for 48L FB.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1452300

[Johnny630]

Man He has Really Butchered tons these Leaf Cards, all sports. He ruined so many good 52 Look N See's As Well.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Man He has Really Butchered tons these Leaf Cards, all sports. He ruined so many good 52 Look N See's As Well.

55B, 39PB, 52B I think, lots of early PH hockey. It goes on, Judah, it goes on. And people think new ownership is somehow going to undo 30 years of history????

Not to mention that he is only one of MANY.