1921 M.L.B. Diecuts

[nolemmings]

I know this is not exactly anyone's sweet spot in their collection, if they have any at all, but I noticed something interesting in looking at the following auction for what are commonly known as 1921-30 M.L.B. diecuts:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Bro...oAAOSw2lleugrj

If you look at the individual players, all with Brooklyn Dodger designations, you'll notice that Lefty O'Doul and Hack Wilson are included. Fine, except that O'Doul did not play for Brooklyn until 1931 nor did Wilson until 1932. I've isolated these players here:

The players in the auction cover different Brooklyn teams from multiple years, so comparing others in the grouping does not help much. The question I have is did these get issued later than thought or are these just carefully-spliced labels? Sometimes the labels were used one over the other from year to year, so that could explain some unevenness, but I just can't say for certain here, even with some coloration difference. I'd like to think this is a new discovery, but can't go there yet. Thoughts?

[nolemmings]

Upon reflection, it could be one of each. I'm now certain that Wilson was spliced, which makes the one-time owner at least interested and capable of "updating" his team, and thus casts doubt on O'Doul as well. Clever.

I should have studied this a little before rushing to the board. The player number at the bottom of each label corresponds to a specific position regardless of team and year. The number 8 is allocated to third basemen, and is at odds with Wilson's designated position in center field (should be #12). His die-cut therefore has a spliced label at its base.

O'Doul, on the other hand, remains unsolved, because he was a left fielder and that position was given number 9 in the labeling system, which of course is what you see on this example. Sooooooooo?

[Leon]

I have to reflect often. Good info Todd.....mysteries keep it fun.

[glchen]

Not really related to the question in the post, but needed an excuse to show my ML Diecuts. Although not very popular since they are just generic pictures of the players, it is still tough to try to find all of the different variations out there.

[Bugsy]

I saw someone selling a Shoeless Joe Jackson on eBay a year or more ago. You could see that someone put a Jackson label on a Sox player and then placed a spliced Chicago left-handed batter label over it. It was actually done really well and difficult to see. Of course, no mention was made of the alteration. Since these were first issued in 1921, we can all do the math on that one.

[nolemmings]

Thanks Chris. I wonder if that was done rather recently with JoeJax in an effort to create value or if someone just really missed old Shoeless back in the day and wanted him in his lineup.

Gary, thanks for posting those Yankees. By variations I assume you mean the different poses. Gehrig should always appear in the pose you have shown. I say should because that pose is the one the game used for first basemen, but of course whoever had the labels could affix them to any player pose desired, so in theory I guess there could be 14 different (although why anyone would use the two catcher poses to show Lou would be beyond me).

The Ruth is a little more intriguing. Your two examples are likely from the first half of the decade, because they identify the Babe as batting cleanup, which of course changed after Gehrig arrived. The two poses you show are for a pitcher and a right fielder as used in the game, although the labels both have him in RF. Maybe the original owner of that piece remembered him as a hurler, or maybe he just liked the throwing pose for Babe, who knows? What I would like to see is the initial game version for Ruth–you will be able to tell because there is no actual label–the info will be printed right on the base of the playing figure. As you know, Ruth played more in LF than RF before arriving in New York, although that changed his first season as a Yankee. I do not know where the initial version of the game showed him playing in 1921, but I suppose it’s possible you could see him listed as the LF.

Finally if you’re REALLY into variations, you could try and find versions where Babe is batting third, and then, if you’re obsessive, check for font/typeset differences, like these (not mine):

At that point, you should either consider therapy or refer me to someone for help.

[ValKehl]

"What I would like to see is the initial game version for Ruth–you will be able to tell because there is no actual label–the info will be printed right on the base of the playing figure."

To illustrate what Todd said above, here's the initial game version (1921) for the Senators: