Greg Morris

[661fish]

Right now on Ebay is a raw 59 Elston Howard nrmt or better at $135.50. Now am I stupid or is somebody bidding this up? Come on folks!

[Leon]

After you got pounced on and apologized for the same type thing you start this kind of thread? Are you a glutton for punishment or what? I am going with your first choice from what I have seen so far.

Lest you forget..
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=270428

.

[wdwfan]

Very questionable for sure.

Originally Posted by 661fish

Right now on Ebay is a raw 59 Elston Howard nrmt or better at $135.50. Now am I stupid or is somebody bidding this up? Come on folks!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 661fish

Right now on Ebay is a raw 59 Elston Howard nrmt or better at $135.50. Now am I stupid or is somebody bidding this up? Come on folks!

It's listed as NM MT or better, not NM, and looks pretty close to Mint.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/1959-Topps-...8AAOSwXvRdFUap

[bnorth]

How could this bid history be anything but a very loyal bidder. You guys and your conspiracy theories.

Bidder: 7***7 ( 34Feedback score is 10 to 49)
Feedback: 100% Positive
Item description: 1959 Topps Set Break #395 - Elston Howard NM-MT OR BETTER *GMCARDS*
Bids on this item: 17

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 488
Items bid on: 104
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 100% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 0

[Republicaninmass]

Exact same bidder and question I had when I listed my 1952 topps and nobody bid

Edited: this bidder didnt bid on any lots

[Leon]

Please put your full name next to your post. Thanks (never mind, got it covered)

Originally Posted by wdwfan

Very questionable for sure.

[Johnny630]

Card looks Nrmt-Mint to me all day long and twice on Sundays

[whitehse]

Originally Posted by 661fish

Right now on Ebay is a raw 59 Elston Howard nrmt or better at $135.50. Now am I stupid or is somebody bidding this up? Come on folks!

Sean do you have a "thing" for Greg Morris cards?

I know I had got caught up in a few of his auctions because I really wanted the card (they were commons) but paid way more than I should have because I let my emotions get in the way of my brain and found myself being stupid with my bids.

You took a beating with this kind of crap before and now you are trying to stir up trouble for one of the better guys in the hobby? Geez man...give it up.

[661fish]

I just bought a card from Greg Morris. But when you see stuff like this, it makes me wonder. I am not in any way saying they are behind it. I'm just pointing it out.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's listed as NM MT or better, not NM, and looks pretty close to Mint.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/1959-Topps-...8AAOSwXvRdFUap

But how could anybody know for sure unless it goes to a third party authenticator... OMG, could you imagine assigning a grade to it and not having someone that works for PSA or SGC confirming this?

[lowpopper]

Winner gets the card in a psa 9 holder.....

Now what does everybody opt to complain about? Lol

[661fish]

Btw gang, you can get a PSA 8 for around $70.

[661fish]

Glad I'm not the only one that is baffled.

[Johnny630]

See with all the S++T going on over at The Lake people are gonna think conspiracy on everything.....Uncertainty is at its highest level ever in this freaking hobby....sad good guys become collateral damage it’s always the good guys that take it on the backside.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 661fish

Btw gang, you can get a PSA 8 for around $70.

And a 9? 200 or more I would imagine.
It's also 50 50 or pretty close.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

One person cannot bid up an auction. Mathematical impossibility.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Thanks for outing the auction dude!

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

One person cannot bid up an auction. Mathematical impossibility.

Depends on the auction...I've done it a few times in both REA and LOTG

[Misunderestimated]

If you abhor graded cards Greg Morris is, in my experience, the most reliable seller of raw cards for post-war set builders. He (they?) has a very loyal following that is earned. I assume that there are also bidders who look to grade the nicest raw cards from Greg Morris. I think that this card was given the highest grade that Greg Morris will give and their loyal customers will trust that.

I don't know what accounts for this one but it just takes two -- set builders or investors -- who want this card and want it now.

[nolemmings]

You can question Greg Morris auctions without necessarily impugning his integrity. I did this a few months ago on the postwar side, and still remain baffled by some of the action I see:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ighlight=frank

From my post #28:
"Well, sorry to rant again, but I may put my return to buying nice raw post-war cards on hold. GM had a nice 1967 Kaline a week or two ago, which mostly sells for under $100 in PSA 8 and has one sale at 8.5 for $155. My snipe didn't even register and the ungraded card sold for $193.50.

The kicker, though, was a high-number 1966 Dick Bertell. Nice but far from scarce and not so distinguishable from those in recent sales. The ungraded GM card sold for $115. This is about double what it sells for in PSA 9 MINT. Surely no one is buying in hopes of a 10?

I can see the odd card earning more when really well centered, especially if it is notoriously found off center, and likewise for cards usually subject to print dots or snow. But c'mon man. This is just nuts and I'm not cherry picking sales to make my point, unless everyone just happens to want the same cards that I bid."

[661fish]

See Leon, I'm not the only one. Not all of us were born yesterday.

[Leon]

I was born yesterday.

Originally Posted by 661fish

See Leon, I'm not the only one. Not all of us were born yesterday.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Leon

I was born yesterday.

What Time? I need to know if I won the pool.

[Dpeck100]

I think people bid strong because they actually have a shot to get the grades advertised.

In 2011 I purchased three cards from a raw set break of the 1982 Wrestling All Stars Series B.

Kerry Von Erich advertised as Mint graded Mint a Pop 2 eight years later.

Jesse Ventura advertised as Mint graded Mint.

Greg Valentine advertised as Mint graded Mint.

My last purchase was another Kerry Von Erich advertised as NM-MT and graded NM. Borderline grade and I feel could have gone either way.

He has great scans, fair grading and fast shipping. Hard to beat.

[Ronnie73]

I think the bottom line is, you only bid up to the amount that you think a card is worth, then there are no problems. If you bid more, and someone keeps bumping up your bid, who's fault is that? Smart bidding equals winning everything at a fair price but also losing on over priced cards. I've won some Greg Morris cards and lost some too, but the ones that I won, I got at great prices.

[swarmee]

The biggest issue is why in the heck are people bidding during the first 6.9 days of the auction? The only thing that matters is the bid at the end. Not who leads with four days remaining. Set a snipe bid. Put it on your watch list to look at with 10 minutes to go. Why are there 39 bids on that card?
Don't people know anything about bidding? Or are they all paying with Monopoly money?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

The biggest issue is why in the heck are people bidding during the first 6.9 days of the auction? The only thing that matters is the bid at the end. Not who leads with four days remaining. Set a snipe bid. Put it on your watch list to look at with 10 minutes to go. Why are there 39 bids on that card?
Don't people know anything about bidding? Or are they all paying with Monopoly money?

Ever look at a PWCC auction LOL? High bid goes to 60, 70, 80 percent within a day, frequently.

[sedin26]

Gotta chime in and say I’ve got some great deals with Greg Morris over the last few years and had great customer service when a shipment went missing. Cheap shipping to Canada too, which allows me to bid a bit more than I might otherwise.

[Rickyy]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I think people bid strong because they actually have a shot to get the grades advertised.

In 2011 I purchased three cards from a raw set break of the 1982 Wrestling All Stars Series B.

Kerry Von Erich advertised as Mint graded Mint a Pop 2 eight years later.

Jesse Ventura advertised as Mint graded Mint.

Greg Valentine advertised as Mint graded Mint.

My last purchase was another Kerry Von Erich advertised as NM-MT and graded NM. Borderline grade and I feel could have gone either way.

He has great scans, fair grading and fast shipping. Hard to beat.

My thoughts exactly.... his grading of raw cards is pretty accurate. I bought some for my raw sets...but I'm sure if I sent them in to get it graded, it would come back as the grade advertised. Ricky Y

[cannonballsun]

I'll put in my 2 cents.
I've bid on a lot of Greg Morris auctions. He does sometimes get some super great prices. But it is an auction. Decide what you want to pay and stick with it. You'll win some and lose some.
Some people have more money than time. Unfortunately , I have more time than money. I'm going to shop around and try to find the best deal. I think other people aren't going to invest that time. They trust Greg Morris and are happy with the business they've done with him. I think it's as simple as that.
I never felt shill bidding was going on. When I do win items from him, it's a price that I like.

[BruceinGa]

And I'll add my 2 cents. I've bid on GM cards, probably a thousand in the past year. I've only won less than 100.
Snipe what you think they are worth!
Early this year I returned about 20 cards because I didn't think they were quite the grade advertised. Their customer service politely explained that even though they offer returns it is difficult to service their sellers with a high number of returns. I agreed and am more careful on the cards that I am looking to buy.
I agree that some bidders are looking for that "nm-mint or better" card that will grade as a 10.

[Johnny630]

To me the whole issue here is what fuels the grading companies pockets with money. From people’s responses above it appears that these cards are selling raw in the above auction at these levels because the prospective buyer thinks they will get a 8.5 or a 9 and then Gold Jerry Gold....Ugh. Grading Companies Make Out again...Seller Makes out Again....another reason why parties say nothing and the same issues continue. I also find it fascinating that in person at shows people are way more afraid to buy raw then on line-guess they don’t trust their own eye in person and want the money back guarantee from. eBay....idk.
It’s in the masses minds that Everyone Makes A Buck from The PSA grading Game....Dealers....buyers....collectors and investors......until
This mind set stops a certain level of fraud and manipulation will always be in this industry you can Shill You Can Crack You Can Work....It’s obvious Many people have and are still profiting so the beat goes on.....you have to sleep in the bed you made....other then a few good guys on here I don’t see anything changing.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by BruceinGa

And I'll add my 2 cents. I've bid on GM cards, probably a thousand in the past year. I've only won less than 100.
Snipe what you think they are worth!
Early this year I returned about 20 cards because I didn't think they were quite the grade advertised. Their customer service politely explained that even though they offer returns it is difficult to service their sellers with a high number of returns. I agreed and am more careful on the cards that I am looking to buy.
I agree that some bidders are looking for that "nm-mint or better" card that will grade as a 10.

So you had to return at least 1 in 5 cards you purchased because the seller over graded them. Then the did accept the return(s) but complained about it. I guess I would be more careful with them also.

My 2 cents. I think they do a better job at guessing the grade than most.

I do find it strange that they have so many bidders like the one I posted earlier. That bidder had 488 bids in the last month on 104 different items. 100% of those bids are with GM. That averages out to 16 bids a day with only 1 seller and the bidder rarely if ever wins anything.

[BruceinGa]

Originally Posted by bnorth

So you had to return at least 1 in 5 cards you purchased because the seller over graded them. Then the did accept the return(s) but complained about it. I guess I would be more careful with them also.

At first I thought it wouldn't be a problem, since they advertise returns, no questions asked. I was thinking that I'll bid on more then return any that I wasn't happy with.
I have adjusted my strategy since then.

[wondo]

Why is this thread, and dozens others, on the pre-war forum? Seems it used to be an unusual occurrence, but now we can post about a guy selling a Mickey Morandini rookie, throw out accusations and include it here. There are post war and modern pages. Throw this crap on them!

[ALR-bishop]

Yes, the pre war board seems infected with post war riff raff these days

[Leon]

When a thread like this, concerning an advertiser, is moved there are conspiracy theorists who will say I am protecting an advertiser. So that is the main reason some threads don't get moved. This one being the second alarm about, what looks to have no supporting evidence other than high prices for great looking raw cards, should be moved otherwise (and might still be).

[RedsFan1941]

Originally Posted by wondo

Why is this thread, and dozens others, on the pre-war forum? Seems it used to be an unusual occurrence, but now we can post about a guy selling a Mickey Morandini rookie, throw out accusations and include it here. There are post war and modern pages. Throw this crap on them!

be happy there are no soccer threads on the main page of a website supposedly dedicated to prewar baseball cards

[greg19]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I do find it strange that they have so many bidders like the one I posted earlier. That bidder had 488 bids in the last month on 104 different items. 100% of those bids are with GM. That averages out to 16 bids a day with only 1 seller and the bidder rarely if ever wins anything.

I throw out tons of bids on his cards but do win my fair share. I usually bid on high grade football and basketball for 2 reasons. I love those sports as much as baseball and I feel that the going prices for these cards are undervalued compared to their baseball sibling. If I can get a nrmt card for $3 or under vs a psa graded card for $30 i'm buying 10 of the ungraded (different players) all day. I'mnot looking to send to PSA nor have I ever sent any cards to PSA. I like to collect what I like and try and find the best grade possible. I just find that he is one of the best when it comes to describing condition. Yes, I have gotten some that I don't feel were as described and couldn't be seen in pictures (some having indents on them that can only be seen when turned into the light) but i'm happy with the majority I receive.

I'm just a small fish in his big pond and rarely spend over 4.00 for a card. I have wo plenty of his auctions for the .79 starting price and I usually average out around 2.00 If I can pick up football and basketball Hall of Famers (obviously not the big, well known players...but still Hall of Famers) from the 50's and 60's in nrmt condition for those prices i'd br crazy not to.

It's like everything else in life. I'm sure a lot of people before the internet had their favorite card shop or TTM dealer. Same with me and Greg Morris Cards. I'm just a happy customer who gets me what I'm looking for to add to my PC at a nice price. I lose way more than I win but in the month of December I probably purchased over 300 cards from him. I don't know him and i'm not affiliated with him in any way. Trough my bidding history I might look like a shill but i'm definitely just a collector looking to add to my collection. I'm sure there are others that bid just as I do with his stuff.

GREG SMITH from QUINCY, MA

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by greg19

I throw out tons of bids on his cards but do win my fair share. I usually bid on high grade football and basketball for 2 reasons. I love those sports as much as baseball and I feel that the going prices for these cards are undervalued compared to their baseball sibling. If I can get a nrmt card for $3 or under vs a psa graded card for $30 i'm buying 10 of the ungraded (different players) all day. I'mnot looking to send to PSA nor have I ever sent any cards to PSA. I like to collect what I like and try and find the best grade possible. I just find that he is one of the best when it comes to describing condition. Yes, I have gotten some that I don't feel were as described and couldn't be seen in pictures (some having indents on them that can only be seen when turned into the light) but i'm happy with the majority I receive.

I'm just a small fish in his big pond and rarely spend over 4.00 for a card. I have wo plenty of his auctions for the .79 starting price and I usually average out around 2.00 If I can pick up football and basketball Hall of Famers (obviously not the big, well known players...but still Hall of Famers) from the 50's and 60's in nrmt condition for those prices i'd br crazy not to.

It's like everything else in life. I'm sure a lot of people before the internet had their favorite card shop or TTM dealer. Same with me and Greg Morris Cards. I'm just a happy customer who gets me what I'm looking for to add to my PC at a nice price. I lose way more than I win but in the month of December I probably purchased over 300 cards from him. I don't know him and i'm not affiliated with him in any way. Trough my bidding history I might look like a shill but i'm definitely just a collector looking to add to my collection. I'm sure there are others that bid just as I do with his stuff.

Glad to know. Since you are commenting on a company you full name needs to be posted.

This is in BOLD at the of of every page. If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Glad to know. Since you are commenting on a company you full name needs to be posted.

This is in BOLD at the of of every page. If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it.

Guessing his first name might be Greg, hailing from CA?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Guessing his first name might be Greg, hailing from CA?

Maybe the rule doesn't count for paid advertisement.

[carlsonjok]

TL;DR but:

I am a vintage set builder. I like nice quality cards, but I am not a high roller, so I want to do stay within my budget. When I start a set, I pull down the checklist and add in the Beckett book values, which I use as my guide for bidding. I normally looked to get EX-NRMT cards at 35-40% of Beckett high book value and go down from there for lower quality. Over time, I've limited my sources of cards to local shows and Greg Morris' Ebay auctions. That's it. I've dropped all other on-line sellers.

So, I have a few observations about Greg Morris:

1. He tends to grade conservatively. I will actually bid on cards he grades at VG-EX because they tend to be of equivalent to other sellers EX+ cards.
2. I used to clean up on his auctions using my 35-40% rule. Over the last year, this has changed. Where I used to get 10-15 cards in a particularly set break, I now get 2-4 and cards are selling way, way above what I am comfortable buying at.
3. Yes, I ended that sentence with a preposition.
4. On a related note, when I put together my 1955 Topps checklist a couple years ago, Beckett listed the Clemente RC at a book value of $2,200. When I looked the other day, it was up to $5,000.
5. My conclusion is that we are in a market bubble right now and auction results are just way out of line with longer term trends and what we have come to expect having been in the hobby for a long time.

YMMV

[cardsagain74]

I've always found them a very solid and useful outlet. Imagine plenty of other people have too and that they have a pretty big following by now. Like the guy above, I'm never surprised to get outbid there, but still regularly find some things that I need at the right price.

As far as condition, the cards are usually about as described. And the occasional times that wasn't the case, the slight misgrading was a little more likely to be in my favor

[Bram99]

Originally Posted by carlsonjok

TL;DR but:

I am a vintage set builder. I like nice quality cards, but I am not a high roller, so I want to do stay within my budget. When I start a set, I pull down the checklist and add in the Beckett book values, which I use as my guide for bidding. I normally looked to get EX-NRMT cards at 35-40% of Beckett high book value and go down from there for lower quality. Over time, I've limited my sources of cards to local shows and Greg Morris' Ebay auctions. That's it. I've dropped all other on-line sellers.

So, I have a few observations about Greg Morris:

1. He tends to grade conservatively. I will actually bid on cards he grades at VG-EX because they tend to be of equivalent to other sellers EX+ cards.
2. I used to clean up on his auctions using my 35-40% rule. Over the last year, this has changed. Where I used top get 10-15 cards in a particularly set break, I now get 2-4 and cards are selling way, way above what I am comfortable buying at.
3. Yes, I ended that sentence with a preposition.
4. On a related note, when I put together my 1955 Topps checklist a couple years ago, Beckett listed the Clemente RC at a book value of $2,200. When I looked the other day, it was up to $5,000.
5. My conclusion is that we are in a market bubble right now and auction results are just way out of line with longer term trends and what we have come to expect having been in the hobby for a long time.

YMMV

I have bought a lot of cards from Greg Morris. I have lost more auctions than I have won. I have never gotten a card from him that was over-graded.

I probably have about a 33% to 50% rate (with other eBay sellers) of getting raw cards that are over-graded. Another poster above mentioned problems on a card that you cannot see in the scan. I just bought a group of raw Early Wynn cards from different seller and lo and behold, surface issues not apparent on the scan of the key card. It was $50 total for 4 cards, but kind of a waste of money now. I don't have to worry about that kind of stuff with GMC.

I sold a bunch of cards through Greg Morris too. He graded them probably more harshly than I would have. In the end, the cards sold for fair prices. I don't usually get awesome deals anymore when I buy from GMC because they have such a following, but I also never get surprised to the downside with what I get in the mailbox.

Tony

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by carlsonjok

He tends to grade conservatively. I will actually bid on cards he grades at VG-EX because they tend to be of equivalent to other sellers EX+ cards.

Unfortunately I've always attributed this more to GM grading fairly (compared to most other sellers overgrading).

Knew that obviously caveat emptor would always be front-and-center once I got back into the hobby and got acclimated to ebay, but it's even worse than I would've expected.

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by carlsonjok

I used to clean up on his auctions using my 35-40% rule. Over the last year, this has changed. Where I used to get 10-15 cards in a particularly set break, I now get 2-4 and cards are selling way, way above what I am comfortable buying at. On a related note, when I put together my 1955 Topps checklist a couple years ago, Beckett listed the Clemente RC at a book value of $2,200. When I looked the other day, it was up to $5,000.

My conclusion is that we are in a market bubble right now and auction results are just way out of line with longer term trends and what we have come to expect having been in the hobby for a long time.

Could be a bubble, or could just be the market becoming more efficient. If it has to be one or the other, hoping it's the latter

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Maybe the rule doesn't count for paid advertisement.

How about F U A-hole. I was away from the board a few hours. You really can be a dick. His name on his registration is Greg Smith and it will be very verified in the next day or two. I already tried to call him but got an automated answer so didn't leave a message. I will follow up. Oh yeah, did I tell you you are an A-hole? Because you really are.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Leon

How about F U A-hole. I was away from the board a few hours. You really can be a dick. His name on his registration is Greg Smith and it will be very verified in the next day or two. I already tried to call him but got an automated answer so didn't leave a message. I will follow up. Oh yeah, did I tell you you are an A-hole? Because you really are.

Nice.