Opinion on these recently bought low grade Ruth and Gehrig Goudey - Real or Fake

[kevinlenane]

They are taped into a scrapbook and they look evenly worn so was just curious if anyone had opinions. Also got a couple Waners and Lefty Grove and a few others. Any opinions very much welcome...

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[Leon]

Originally Posted by kevinlenane

They are taped into a scrapbook and they look evenly worn so was just curious if anyone had opinions. Also got a couple Waners and Lefty Grove and a few others. Any opinions very much welcome...

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I think i saw those listed. I don't care for the darker borders.....Not a good sign. Plus the near perfect centering in the Ruths, another not good look. Personally, I would run the other way on them though without better scans I am not 100%....

[kevinlenane]

Yeah - I guess on the other side they are taped into
A scrapbook with items from the 60s - and they are certainly old reprints if they are them. Anybody else have thoughts? I thought the darker borders were a good sign but I'm definitely a novice. I can definitely back out of the deal so I'd love to hear any additional opinions.

[kevinlenane]

Other pics included in the scrap book


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[2dueces]

The commons may be ok but I don’t like the Gehrig. Can’t comment on the Ruth’s.

[kevinlenane]

There is just one Ruth - the pics themselves are a bit dark - here is the best imagery I could gather on the Ruth and Gehrig... Are period reproduction/fakes from the 1970s common?


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[Leon]

Just sayin, though the borders should be a shade darker than pure white. That Ruth just looks too dark to me. That along with near perfect centering give me great pause. These borders are darker than a pure white but not like the ones in the photos.. And I agree with Joe too, the colors on the Gehrig look off....
(I see there is only 1 Ruth, with 2 pics)

[kevinlenane]

Yeah i just cant tell if its the tape thats making them darker - there is just a single ruth with that top corner lopped off. The borders are def off left to right it lt looks like a bit of a diamond cut on the bottom. I should listen to you two and bail on it - part of me wants to find out for myself but boy is that going to be expensive. Thank you both - i feel like im trying to convince myself my arm isnt broken as my doctor is putting a cast on...Here are the best version of the issues i can produce...

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[Republicaninmass]

Hey dude, this "scrapbook" has sold and has been listed 3 times prior for 1k to 1500. Did you really think for 5500 it "could be real" when others for the past few months have passed on it?


Greedy makes for a hungry puppy

[CobbSpikedMe]

I'm going to go against the grain and say the Ruth looks good to me. It's being held down with old tape and all the other commons look good. I just don't see the Ruth being fake in that bunch.

[kevinlenane]

what about the Gehrig dont you like? Thanks again

[kevinlenane]

Republicaninmass - i had no idea that it had been posted and resold - I didnt buy it for 5500 - i made an offer for 800 but if thats true about it being posted and resold than I can certainly back away from it...thanks

[kevinlenane]

I cant find any record of the sales - can you point me in the right direction? Honestly i saw it for the first time this morning.

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Hey dude, this "scrapbook" has sold and has been listed 3 times prior for 1k to 1500. Did you really think for 5500 it "could be real" when others for the past few months have passed on it?


Greedy makes for a hungry puppy

[CobbSpikedMe]

I didn't know it was sold and resold several times prior either. That's not a good look I must admit.

[drcy]

I don't offer an opinion other than the tape doesn't look terribly old.

[kevinlenane]

Agreed on the reselling - i just cant find any record of it being discussed or bought or sold - though it was stated with some conviction so its giving me pause...

[kevinlenane]

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[Leon]

I personally wouldn't gamble on it. I am not 100% but it (the Ruth) just doesn't look right. It could be the scan. Not sure about the back of the Gehrig either. If there is any really white looking paper, where there is damage, that is a yellow flag.

Originally Posted by kevinlenane

Yeah i just cant tell if its the tape thats making them darker - there is just a single ruth with that top corner lopped off. The borders are def off left to right it lt looks like a bit of a diamond cut on the bottom. I should listen to you two and bail on it - part of me wants to find out for myself but boy is that going to be expensive. Thank you both - i feel like im trying to convince myself my arm isnt broken as my doctor is putting a cast on...Here are the best version of the issues i can produce...

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[bigfanNY]

I dont like cardboard of the gehrig...

[Rickyy]

The back of the Gehrig looks too clean... I've owned a poor one and it should look more faded.

Ricky Y

[brob28]

I saw the listing and didn't like the look of the Ruth or Gehrig. I agree with a previous post that some cards look legit, but not the R or G. It's a bit difficult to see due to the angle of the pictures.

[brob28]

Here's a legit Gehrig for comparisson.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by brob28

I saw the listing and didn't like the look of the Ruth or Gehrig. I agree with a previous post that some cards look legit, but not the R or G. It's a bit difficult to see due to the angle of the pictures.

Agreed...some are probably legit. However, your two money cards are both fake, and that is what he is basing his high pricing on. At MOST it is worth around $100-$200 as a novelty, and hoping you can remove the cards from the pages. But don't overpay based on the Ruth and Gehrig, or you are going to lose your money and not be very happy.

[JeremyW]

I'm in the minority here, but I think the cards are real, even the Ruth & Gehrig. With the tape & chunk missing from the Ruth I would probably pass at $800.

[kevinlenane]

Thank you all for your help - it was more of a pain to back out of the offer then to just eat the 800. I'll send them into SGV and let everyone know - they were apparently glued one place peeled up and taped back down - I agree the Gehrig paper looks white but it's possible it was mounted for a very long time which may have led to less yellowing. Im expecting to get burned but its been fun to hear all the opinions. There are some other cards pasted in the book that aren't shown so who knows what happens - they arrive on Thursday so I should get my reprints verified in a couple weeks

[Exhibitman]

I hope you get the last laugh.

[ALR-bishop]

Good luck Kevin

[Republicaninmass]

My guess

The real ones were taped and glued then reglued with the reprints .

They say I'm a cynic

[kevinlenane]

I got them - im thinking they aren't real but he kind of said he'd take a return if they weren't. We'll see. One odd thing, some of the Goudey's have an odd almost 3d look to them when I look at them under a magnification. Keep in mind the Gehrig still has tape so those edges look glossier than they are...


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Some 1200 DPI magnification next to some online guidance

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[kevinlenane]

FYI The top left image in the last two photos is the verified real example online..

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Rickyy

The back of the Gehrig looks too clean... I've owned a poor one and it should look more faded.

Ricky Y

Saw the recent posts and I am still not quite sure...always better to see in person. Just a point though, cards that have been taped or glued into scrapbooks, etc., quite often have cleaner than normal backs. I assume this is partially because the backs were not exposed to the elements like their free as a bird brothers.

Brian

[Rickyy]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Saw the recent posts and I am still not quite sure...always better to see in person. Just a point though, cards that have been taped or glued into scrapbooks, etc., quite often have cleaner than normal backs. I assume this is partially because the backs were not exposed to the elements like their free as a bird brothers.

Brian

true Brian good points. I have seen cards ripped out where there were fades around the outer edges...and relatively unscathed in the middle..

Ricky Y

[kevinlenane]

Regardless its been super fun going through this - i will also say this - Ive been able to verify the my "wifes' uncle" thing. There is a very old man that died who has the same last name and was born in that area - and there are pictures of him at Guaducanal in this scrapbook (which im going to try to send back) There are a bunch of photos of him from the 30s and newspaper articles from the era. So at the very least - I know this seller isnt trying to scam anyone. They could be super old reprints or the real deal - they are all beat up but i dont really mind it. Here are two more interesting factors that i noticed - though im not totally sure what they mean:

1. You can see the red goudey overprint through the Gehrig back
2. They were not printed with any kind of modern printer (no dot matrix just the color on card texture
3. The stamp looks like it was done differently and has no discernable break pattern at 1200 DPI on both the Gehrig and Ruth.

Sorry to drag this out - but im having so much fun doing my Forensic Files (which incidentally I used to work on...)

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[steve B]

No dot pattern or blockiness in the 1933 logo and that it goes over the background is a good sign. I think they're real.

[1880nonsports]

but ever since I opened the thread I've believed them all to be real. Having them in hand would of course seal the deal.....

no guarantees whether written or implied.

[Exhibitman]

FWIW, an absolutely destroyed SGC A ruth is on ebay now and selling at auction for several hundred dollars, so if the cards are genuine you done good.

[Leon]

I still don't like the color of the borders on the Ruth, or the coloring on the Gehrig, but hopefully I am wrong. As I said before, I am not 100% either way. These scans help and I am closer to them being legit...just not sure.

Originally Posted by kevinlenane

Regardless its been super fun going through this - i will also say this - Ive been able to verify the my "wifes' uncle" thing. There is a very old man that died who has the same last name and was born in that area - and there are pictures of him at Guaducanal in this scrapbook (which im going to try to send back) There are a bunch of photos of him from the 30s and newspaper articles from the era. So at the very least - I know this seller isnt trying to scam anyone. They could be super old reprints or the real deal - they are all beat up but i dont really mind it. Here are two more interesting factors that i noticed - though im not totally sure what they mean:

1. You can see the red goudey overprint through the Gehrig back
2. They were not printed with any kind of modern printer (no dot matrix just the color on card texture
3. The stamp looks like it was done differently and has no discernable break pattern at 1200 DPI on both the Gehrig and Ruth.

Sorry to drag this out - but im having so much fun doing my Forensic Files (which incidentally I used to work on...)

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[kevinlenane]

Thanks again - they are off to the sgc along w a 1941 PB DiMaggio - I'll keep everyone posted...

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by kevinlenane

Thanks again - they are off to the sgc along w a 1941 PB DiMaggio - I'll keep everyone posted...

Good luck.

[kevinlenane]

Shockingly enough the scrapbook Ruth and the Gehrig graded Authentic from SGC. Waiting on them in the mail but wanted to provide that update

In the same submission i wound up with an 8 on a nu-Card Ernie Davis rookie I pulled out of a fresh 1961 pack and a 1.5 on 41 PB DiMaggio I got cheaply in a suspect raw "DiMaggio family" lot w Dom and Vince. Overall a positive result on my two raw/scrapbook gambles...

[Leon]

Congrats., Glad my hesitancy was incorrect.

Originally Posted by kevinlenane

Shockingly enough the scrapbook Ruth and the Gehrig graded Authentic from SGC. Waiting on them in the mail but wanted to provide that update

In the same submission i wound up with an 8 on a nu-Card Ernie Davis rookie I pulled out of a fresh 1961 pack and a 1.5 on 41 PB DiMaggio I got cheaply in a suspect raw "DiMaggio family" lot w Dom and Vince. Overall a positive result on my two raw/scrapbook gambles...

[kevinlenane]

Thanks for all your help - they are still pretty beat up - not sure exactly what I'll do with them but I have grown kind of attached given the inordinate around of time I've spent examining them...

[JeremyW]

Congrats. Be sure to post some scans when you get them back.

[wondo]

Congrats - my faith in humanity is restored!

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by JeremyW

Congrats. Be sure to post some scans when you get them back.

+1 congrats

[ullmandds]

congrats...great news!

[Kingcobb]

Very cool Kevin those type of pickup's are rare in these times. Daryl

[murphy8276]

Interesting that the majority recommended to pass on the counterfeit/reprints, but you ended up buying it anyway and scored! NICE!

[todeen]

Originally Posted by murphy8276

Interesting that the majority recommended to pass on the counterfeit/reprints, but you ended up buying it anyway and scored! NICE!

+1 regardless of the AUTHENTIC tag, lots of collectors would like them for the price you paid. Great grab and way to do the leg work on them.

[kevinlenane]

A little tapey for my taste but the card was going to disintegrate under heat so there it will remain forever entombed. Come to think of it - I already regret not trying harder to get it off...

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