Surveying My Collection for Fraud

[ullmandds]

This morning I decided to go through my collection to see if there are any cards that appear suspect...and sadly I believe my lovely T202 Cobb may be a victim.

The holder sure appears to have been compromised by the presence of a large gash on top rt of holder. I bought this card on ebay in 2018.

I suppose my next course of action would be to send to psa for reholder?????

God I hate to have to deal with PSA!!!!!!!

Any opinions??

[swarmee]

A lot of PSA slabs will get chips or cracks just from mailing them. Doesn't mean they were tampered with. Sending in for a reholder seems like the correct response. If the seal were broken and either an altered or lower graded card input, or the flip was replaced with a higher graded one, you'd be able to see more frosting.
Or is something about the card itself also worrying you?

[ullmandds]

It is mainly the chunk taken out of the holder that makes me concerned?

[atx840]

Jan 2017



Nov 2011



Dec 2001

[Throttlesteer]

I was going to say, it looks good to me. That's pretty good proof.

[ullmandds]

Thx Chris!

[Peter_Spaeth]

He's one of the BODA guys. I know it.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Same little ink mark on the left of Cobb on every one, it's still the same card for sure. Nice work Chris.

[Rhotchkiss]

Pete, blowout called out my t227 cobb (below) for having once resided in an SGC A flip. I also had doubts about the t206 Chance below. So I had a friend send them both to PSA to review under the guarantee. PSA validated both and put them in new flips with the old cert# (I will get them next time I see my friend). I guess all we can do sometimes is have the same jackasses that validated/graded our cards, reaffirm their work. Luckily in your case, Chris has given you the comfort you want and you don’t have to go back to PSA.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I gotta say on the Cobb with the bottom border being equal to the sides it is very weird that the top border is that small. I sold a bunch of T227's last year so I've handled quite a few.

[Rhotchkiss]

Scott, PSA has now twice seen it and determined it’s an unaltered 3. So it’s a fact! Clearly, they make tons of mistakes, and maybe this is one - twice. However, it was recently reviewed to verify/under the guarantee, so not much more I care to do here.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Not faulting you at all. Just troubling. Not that we all don't know that.

[Exhibitman]

Was the card outed with before and after images? if so, regardless of what PSA says, I'd try to get a refund. Trusting PSA to fairly re-evaluate its work and pay off a big ticket mistatke,,,yeah, it isn't like PSA has a financial incentive to deny that the card was altered

[Peter_Spaeth]

PSA does this all the time. The graders stand behind the grade. Very familiar refrain. Not saying they're wrong, although Scott makes a good point.

[Exhibitman]

I dunno, did it get a shave or did PSA and SGC simply have a difference of opinions?

[Rhotchkiss]

That’s the thing Adam, and blowout found no alteration. Just two different flips, two different companies, two different opinions. I sent it in, PSA re-verified, so they peeped it twice; and the second time was a guarantee review. So, as far as I am concerned, it’s a PSA 3 - nothing more and nothing less

[nolemmings]

The card is either trimmed or not trimmed. There is no "opinion". One grader is correct and one is not.

[Johnny630]

[QUOTE=nolemmings;1913196]The card is either trimmed or not trimmed. There is no "opinion". One grader is correct and one is not.[/QUOTE

Who cares what either TPG says as long as the owner enjoys the card that’s all the matters.

Those TPG’s are nothing more then opinion givers and we all have opinions so that’s that.

Fraud/Manipulation becomes Rampant for one reason and one reason only Money.

Great Card Either Way :-)

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

The card is either trimmed or not trimmed.

Trimming is not the only type of alteration.

[Steve D]

[QUOTE=Johnny630;1913201]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

The card is either trimmed or not trimmed. There is no "opinion". One grader is correct and one is not.[/QUOTE

Who cares what either TPG says as long as the owner enjoys the card that’s all the matters.

Those TPG’s are nothing more then opinion givers and we all have opinions so that’s that.

Fraud/Manipulation becomes Rampant for one reason and one reason only Money.

Great Card Either Way :-)

Yup!

You know what they say.....opinions are like A-Holes; everybody has one.

We just have to hope the one giving the opinion isn't an A-Hole themself!

Steve

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Trimming is not the only type of alteration.

True, but trimming seems to be the question on this card. However, yours is a distinction without a difference-- a card is altered or it is not. There is no opinion. One grader is correct and one is not.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Pete, blowout called out my t227 cobb (below) for having once resided in an SGC A flip. I also had doubts about the t206 Chance below. So I had a friend send them both to PSA to review under the guarantee. PSA validated both and put them in new flips with the old cert# (I will heart them next time I see my friend). I guess all we can do sometimes is have the same jackasses that validated/graded our cards, reaffirm their work. Luckily in your case, Chris has given you the comfort you want and you don’t have to go back to PSA.

I DO feel better...but unfortunately I think your cobb is trimmed at the top.

[Rhotchkiss]

Thanks Pete, for your opinion. You should work at PSA (or SGC)

[perezfan]

NM

[Rhotchkiss]

Thread went off the rails from what I intended, so I took down the images in my post. I appreciate everyone’s opinions, although they were unsolicited.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Thanks Pete, for your opinion. You should work at PSA (or SGC)

i have too much integrity to work for PSA...SGC maybe!

[Throttlesteer]

It could still be Authentic and not meet minimum standard. Not sure about T227s, but I've seen this with some caramels. Quality control wasnt a huge priority 100+ years ago.

[1880nonsports]

For what it's worth I have twice tried to have PSA do a grade review for a moderately significant refund (1000. & 1400.). The second time at a national Joe personally went behind the curtain and emerged 10 minutes later - assured me about the confirming opinion of his "top grader" (guess the guy was just sitting there?!!?!) on a grossly over graded card that it was just as graded - IMHO I don't think they are willing to be unbiased when it comes to liability big or small. I subsequently sold the second card for a loss - as it bothered me more than it should have and didn't fit in my set aesthetically.

I think it all comes down to you and your comfort level. Nice card.

As for Pete - I casually looked at your card and didn't see anything amiss. Nice card as well. I've only owned the Tinker/Evers/Chance.
Over the past 20 years I have freaked a few times when trimming, counterfeiting, reproductions, fakes or some other scandal has hit the news or come along by word of mouth or observation in any one of my prior hobbies. It's not a bad thing to look things over - helps to focus where one's head is at with regard to the how, why, and the do I still want to do this part of collecting.
As it turns out I did find an enameline baseball paper doll and a Duke trade card that were fakes in one of those jags.....

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Throttlesteer

It could still be Authentic and not meet minimum standard. Not sure about T227s, but I've seen this with some caramels. Quality control wasnt a huge priority 100+ years ago.

So PSA is just carrying on the fine tradition of substandard quality control established by the caramel card makers.

Works for me, and apparently the majority of their customers.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

So PSA is just carrying on the fine tradition of substandard quality control established by the caramel card makers.

Works for me, and apparently the majority of their customers.

LOL

I learned only several years ago that T202s can be curved all to heck and still be factory cut. I also have never believed detecting trimming is an exact science. Sure, the easy ones are easy but I just think it is a bit more random (hard to tell) than most have thought.

The Surveying part caught my attention, but if I made blunders and errors like the TPG's do, My NJ NC Licenses would be in trouble and rightly so Real estate is a lot more expensive and even more with the construction side . The difference is the card grading industry is not regulated and have no State or government law to answer too so their rules and regs are made up as they go with no oversight

[t206fanatic]

I was told this card was in one of the Blowout threads but can't find it -- anyone have an opinion?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by t206fanatic

I was told this card was in one of the Blowout threads but can't find it -- anyone have an opinion?

Two areas that look a bit iffy.

The top right corner is really sharp compared to the others. Not in itself a problem, but an area I'd want to inspect more closely.

The one that is a red flag to me is that the darker green is printed with a not small shift to the right. You can see the lighter green underneath along his body, and to the right of his hands. Looking at others, it goes from his body all the way to the border normally, so on this one it should extend into the border. But it doesn't.
Since the set has a decent number of cards that aren't consistent, it's possible one position on the sheet had a slightly different dark green area, but a quick look online doesn't show any.

So I'd want a really long hard look at that lower right border.

[swarmee]

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2735

Believed to previously be in a PSA 3.5 holder. So probably a pressed out wrinkle.