What Do You Consider the First Baseball Card(s)?

[ejharrington]

I’ve seen various claims of what represents the first baseball card, including:

1860 CDV Brooklyn Atlantics
1863 Jordan & Co. – set of 6 (known)
1865 CDV Dave Birdsall “The Old Man”
1865 Peck And Snyder Trade Card - James Creighton
1866 CDV Unions of Lansingburgh – set of 6
1869 Peck & Snyder Cincinnati Red Stockings
1871-72 Mort Rogers Photographic Cards – set of 48(?)
1872 Warren Studios Boston Red Stockings – set of 8(?)
1886 N167 Old Judge New York Giants – set of 12

There are others I’m sure I missed. It’s obviously subjective as it depends on what is considered a baseball card. The Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards lists the 1863 Jordan & Co. as the first cards, but I’m interested as to what member of this board think and why.

[darwinbulldog]

I'm fine with calling baseball CDVs baseball cards, so I'll go with the one really pre-war (or perhaps I should say antebellum) baseball card.

[oldjudge]

I think the Atlantic’s CdV is the first card and the Grand Match tickets are the first set.

[CMIZ5290]

I love T206s, but 1933 Goudeys were always what I considered (as the first) talking to a lot of other people in the hobby. When you are kid growing up, you buy a pack of cards with bubble gum. I always thought that's where Goudey first came to mind...Tobacco cards just didn't feel the same as bubble gum cards.....

[Leon]

For me it is still the 1868/69 Peck and Snyders.

[benjulmag]

1844 Ticket to the Magnolia Base Ball Club ball. It meets my technical definition of a baseball card -- (I) public distribution, (II) commercial purpose, (III) baseball image (in this case a base ball game being played at Elysian Fields).

Here is how an ad in a local newspaper from 1844 reads in advertising the ball.

THE FIRST ANNUAL BALL of the New York Magnolia Ball Club will take place at National Hall, Canal st. on Friday evening, Feb. 9th, inst. The Club pledge themselves that no expense or exertions shall be spared to render this (their first) Ball worthy the patronage of their friends. The Ball Room will be splendidly decorated with the insignia of the Club. Brown’s celebrated Band is engaged for the occasion. Tickets $1, to be had of the undersigned, and at the bar of National Hall.
JOSEPH CARLISLE, Chairman.
PETER H. GRAHAM, Secretary

[bgar3]

I think it is interesting that no one has mentioned whether or not one of the considerations should be whether or not the player or team was professional. I think that would be a significant consideration since the modern value associated with something being a baseball card is based upon professional players and teams.
I personally don’t care whether or not something is a baseball card, I care more about the historical significance of the subject or image. In that regard, it would be hard to beat Corey’s item from the 1840’s, but I would take any of the items put forth.

[GaryPassamonte]

Sorry, Jay. Are the Wrights, Crossley, or Hammond pictured in the cdv or does it show just the English contingent?

[packs]

I think for a card to be considered a "card" it must be part of a set with a predetermined checklist and issued to the public as a premium to go along with a product. For that reason I think CDV's are out, unless accompanied by an advertisement other than a photographer.

[oldjudge]

So by your definition no postcard, exhibit, or Topps card after they stopped including gum is a card.

[darwinbulldog]

Q.e.d.

[packs]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

So by your definition no postcard, exhibit, or Topps card after they stopped including gum is a card.

I am talking about the time period we are discussing, when the first cards were issued; popularly included as premiums in products like tobacco and candy. Topps did not yet exist. Gum was around.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by bgar3

…..
I personally don’t care whether or not something is a baseball card, I care more about the historical significance of the subject or image..….

I think bgar3 (quoted above) summarizes it best. For me, being more a memorabilia collector than a card collector, the value of the Magnolia card has nothing to do with whether the hobby characterizes it as a card. I value it because it is a depiction of pre-Knickerbocker baseball, as well as support for the notion that the Knickerbockers original rules were more a formal codification of a game that was already being played than the creation of something entirely new.

Jay, BTW, whether you own something or not has no bearing on your assessment of the item, correct?

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

I think bgar3 (quoted above) summarizes it best. For me, being more a memorabilia collector than a card collector, the value of the Magnolia card has nothing to do with whether the hobby characterizes it as a card. I value it because it is a depiction of pre-Knickerbocker baseball, as well as support for the notion that the Knickerbockers original rules were more a formal codification of a game that was already being played than the creation of something entirely new.

Jay, BTW, whether you own something or not has no bearing on your assessment of the item, correct?

I agree with the first part. As to the second, I would never (almost never (sometimes)) let ownership affect my opinion,

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

….. I would never (almost never (sometimes)) let ownership affect my opinion,

LOL. Well said!

[Joe_G.]

I love this discussion, a busy schedule has prevented me from weighing in earlier. In the vein of being biased towards something I own, I'd like to propose an option that meets the definition many are proposing and predates N167 and the many tobacco sets that would follow. Let's just say I'm proposing an early set for honorable mention.

In the spring of 1886 Tomlinson Studio would issue cards of the Detroit baseball club. These cabinets were offered for public sale starting April 28th, 1886 (Detroit Free Press announced that they could be purchased at Tomlinson Studio). The cabinets featured personalized mounts that included the players name and position. Every player was available in portrait and action pose (most players have more than one action pose). Later Tomlinson cabinets (1887 & 1888), team cabinets in particular, were offered for sale nation wide.

Here is a sample of a few 1886 cabinets I had recently posted to another thread (three players that would remain good friends in retirement - Lady Baldwin, Sam Thompson, and Charlie Bennett).