T227 Miners Extra backs

[Bkrum]

What is the difference in rarity/ value between the Honest Long backs and Miners Extra backs for T227 cards?

[orly57]

I don't believe that one goes for more than the other. Grading companies sometimes don't distinguish on the flip either, which makes populations tough to gauge. I do know that this is the only card set where you will find Miner's brand being advertised.

[ezez420]

Well the response you received is entirely incorrect. There are other cards with ME backs including T219 Boxers (I have this complete set) and T68 Heroes of History. And yes Miners sell for a premium to HLC. Probably about 1.25x if I had to guess.

[orly57]

Boxing and Heroes of History. Right. My fault. I was just thinking baseball, since we are on a baseball card forum. T227 BASEBALL players are the only BASEBALL CARDS with the Miner's ad. I don't know how I forgot Heroes of History. Classic set of historic figures that didn't play baseball or any other sport. As I wrote in response to his question on rarity, TPGs often don't specify Miner's or Honest on the slab, so the pop is impossible to gauge from the pop reports. Perhaps the Ponce DeLeon or Charlemagne rookie cards from Heroes of History sell for a 1.25x premium with the Miner's back.

[Marslife]

Hey Fellas!

I'm working on a Master set so I have been following these for a couple of years. All of my cards are or have been sent to SGC for grading. Looks like the first card I sent was back in 2013 and SGC has been identifying ME or HLC on the flip since that time. Couldn't tell you when they started or if they always have differentiated on the flip? Looks like all of the Cobby's on the SGC pop reports all have designated backs.

I don't have any evidence that one back is harder to find than the other so I couldn't comment on that. I know that two subjects have never been found with an ME back that we know of (yet??). The most fun fact about this set is that the 25th subject has NEVER been identified to date!

I have seen more ME backs listed for sale in the last 6 months than I have since I started watching them. As far as premium for one back or another, I think in general the set is "catching on" and prices are getting crazy. As you know, the cards are condition sensitive and more likely the premium is heavily weighted toward "good condition" cards than the manufacturer on the back? A VG/EX Marquard HLC back went for over $1K last week in Mile High auction last week!

fun set!

Best of luck with your collection!

Cliff

[Baseball Rarities]

Cliff - This is such a beautiful issue. How close to you on your master set? What two cards are not known with the ME back?

[orly57]

PSA doesn't distinguish on the slab. Therefore it doesn't distinguish on the population report. You are correct that SGC does, and seemingly always has. Judging from the SGC reports, Miner's seems to be a bit tougher. The Homerun Baker has twice as many Honest as it does Miners. The Cobbs are almost even (32 miners 37 honest). Rube is slanted 40 Honest to 22 Miners (one blank back).

[Bkrum]

Originally Posted by Marslife

Hey Fellas!

I'm working on a Master set so I have been following these for a couple of years. All of my cards are or have been sent to SGC for grading. Looks like the first card I sent was back in 2013 and SGC has been identifying ME or HLC on the flip since that time. Couldn't tell you when they started or if they always have differentiated on the flip? Looks like all of the Cobby's on the SGC pop reports all have designated backs.

I don't have any evidence that one back is harder to find than the other so I couldn't comment on that. I know that two subjects have never been found with an ME back that we know of (yet??). The most fun fact about this set is that the 25th subject has NEVER been identified to date!

I have seen more ME backs listed for sale in the last 6 months than I have since I started watching them. As far as premium for one back or another, I think in general the set is "catching on" and prices are getting crazy. As you know, the cards are condition sensitive and more likely the premium is heavily weighted toward "good condition" cards than the manufacturer on the back? A VG/EX Marquard HLC back went for over $1K last week in Mile High auction last week!

fun set!

Best of luck with your collection!

Cliff

Don’t tease us.....please share your fun fact or any other pertinent info!!

[Marslife]

Hey Fellas!

Happy to talk about this set all day long! I am stuck at 45/48 for the Master Set run. There are two key cards in the set that are prohibiting my quest: Bruce Brown & C.P. Rodgers. As far as I can tell there is only one known complete basic set (24/24 mixed backs) and that is Ed’s set which he has on the PSA registry. I am not aware of any others. As for the key cards I took a quick look on the POP reports and from what I have found thru internet research.

Bruce Brown – Auto Driver – 3 known/registered cards (two PSA and one SGC). All with HLC backs.

C.P. Rodgers (Calbraith P. Rodgers) – Aviator – 4 known/registered cards (two PSA and two SGC) all with HLC backs.

Sooo… complete sets 24/24 are nearly impossible unless you are lucky enough to come across these two scarce cards.

I also noted on some prior threads that the 4 baseball players can be found with blank backs. Per the thread I think they are one of one cards and even more scarce than the two cards listed above.
The hunt continues…

TTYL!

Cliff

[Beansballcardblog]

I believe I was only aware that there were two copies of the David Bruce-Brown. Thanks for sharing that. To be honest, that card is probably the " holy grail" of cards to me, as someone acquiring the pre-war auto racing cards.

-kin

[Leon]

To add a little to population numbers I got this message yesterday from a good hobby friend who is a lurker. He says he loves reading the board but posting isn't his thing. I can understand that. At any rate here is what he said-

"One of the last posters, who is working on a Master set of both backs, states that he is aware of only one complete basic set (all 24 of the fronts, regardless of backs). That is a PSA registered set. Well, if you’d like, you can post that you are aware of another complete set. This set is all Honest Long Cut backs. I’m sure that it will come as no shock to you that none of the 24 are graded! Don’t know if you’ve seen them, but they’re pretty sharp except for Brown, which is one of the two that you take what you can get."

.

[Marslife]

Thanks Leon!

OK so the tally is now at two complete sets, one with mixed backs and one all HLC backs...

Nice! that gives me hope and my quest continues now with renewed enthusiasm!

I suspect since the HLC complete set owner won't post, that he wont share some pictures...

So for what its worth... Burdick found a nice one, currently residing in his collection at the Met. Unfortunately they have not identified the manufacturer on the back, maybe if a board member makes a trip to see the collection they can try and see what back it is...

here is a pic and the link:

Bruce Brown - Miners extra.jpg

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/694928

TTYL!

Cliff

[ezez420]

I am aware of another set as well. Leon and I maybe talking about same set. It is ungraded.


QUOTE=Marslife;1765008]Thanks Leon!



OK so the tally is now at two complete sets, one with mixed backs and one all HLC backs...



Nice! that gives me hope and my quest continues now with renewed enthusiasm!



I suspect since the HLC complete set owner won't post, that he wont share some pictures...



So for what its worth... Burdick found a nice one, currently residing in his collection at the Met. Unfortunately they have not identified the manufacturer on the back, maybe if a board member makes a trip to see the collection they can try and see what back it is...



here is a pic and the link:



Attachment 311540



https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/694928



TTYL!



Cliff[/QUOTE]






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[Leon]

The ungraded set I am aware of is in the DFW area.

Originally Posted by ezez420

I am aware of another set as well. Leon and I maybe talking about same set. It is ungraded.

QUOTE=Marslife;1765008]Thanks Leon!

OK so the tally is now at two complete sets, one with mixed backs and one all HLC backs...

Nice! that gives me hope and my quest continues now with renewed enthusiasm!

I suspect since the HLC complete set owner won't post, that he wont share some pictures...

So for what its worth... Burdick found a nice one, currently residing in his collection at the Met. Unfortunately they have not identified the manufacturer on the back, maybe if a board member makes a trip to see the collection they can try and see what back it is...

here is a pic and the link:

Attachment 311540

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/694928

TTYL!

Cliff

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[ezez420]

Then a different set that I know of.


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[orioles70]

Are all 24 cards checklisted in T227 known with Miners Extra back...I have 23 of the 24 Honest Long Cut needed for a set...and 13 of the 24 Miners Extra for a set...but with my duplicate Honest cards I only need 3 cards for a duplicate mixed set...have a total of 68 cards...53 HLC and 15 ME...would like to know what T227 Miners Extra if any are not known...thanks in advance for any help

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[puckpaul]

I bought the Halper set at sothebys which was about 60% complete. Thought it would be an easy finish. Luckily it had all the baseball players, with two marquards (different backs), the johnson and most importantly a really nice Cobb..at least vgex but i would say Ex...no creases, nice image, some wear to the corners. I figured with those keys the rest would be easy, and i like finishing sets and not just the baseballl (like N28 and 29, and the T3s). But acquiring the Brown and Rodgers has been way harder than i had known. Both have really cool stories to them, too. Such a great set. Passed at over $3000 on one in an auction two years ago...more have to pop up but being non-major sports they just dont show up much aside from being rare.

[Marslife]

Hey Orioles!

so far I have found 22/24 with Miners Extra Backs. Two cards have not been found with ME backs (that I know of) to date; the Bruce Brown and the C.P. Rodgers.

the other 22 are out there you just have to wait for them to pop up...


Hey Paul!

nice pickup, how about sharing a picture of that Cobby???

Cliff

[puckpaul]

Sure, here goes on the Cobb....

Paul

[T205 GB]

I’ve read almost complete thread and I didn’t see a single mention about Chief Bender with the Miners back. Is it scarce?

[Marslife]

Hi Andrew,

no the Bender with ME back is not scarce. the two cards that have not been found with the ME backs are Bruce Brown and the C.P. Rodgers.

SGC shows 24 graded Benders with Miners Extra backs.

[RCMcKenzie]

The T227 set is one that I have collected over the last ten years. I have mostly grabbed deals off of eBay. Cliff is one of the gurus of this set, Hi, Cliff, I would like to focus in more to see which cards are harder to find other than the 2 or 3 chase cards. Here's what I have, skewed by me only buying bargains...

Atell 0
Baker 0
Bender HLC
Brown 0
Cobb 0
Coulon ME HLC X2
de Oro 0
Dixie IV ME HLC X2 Blank back skinned?
Goodwin ME HLC
Hilton ME
Hoppe 0
Johnson HLC
Kay ME
Klaus 0
Kramer ME HLC x2
Marquard 0
McDermott ME
McGrath HLC x3
Mulford ME HLC
Rodgers 0
Sheppard ME HLC x2
UHlan me HLC x 2
Wolgast ME
Zhyszko ME x 2 Hlc

From my limited data, HLC is a little easier, but I don't know how it breaks down card for card by player. PSA pops are helpful. i.e. a t227 baker has been graded 47 times and a Bender 50 times. For comparison a T205 Baker has been graded 234 times and a Bender 267 times.
For the less famous cards like the runners, only 12 Kramer's have been graded, but I have 3 raw, so I think people don't send those in for grading, more than Kramer is more rare than Cobb. Kramer may have been thrown away more than Cobb though.

[orioles70]

My T227 Wantlist

Honest Long Cut (1)
To complete an all HLC set
Brown

Miners Extra (11)
To complete an all ME set
Brown
Rodgers

Baker
Bender
Cobb
Marquard

Hoppe
Johnson
Klaus
Kramer
Wolgast

Have T227, T219, and T205 to trade



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[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by orioles70

My T227 Wantlist

Honest Long Cut (1)
To complete an all HLC set
Brown

Miners Extra (11)
To complete an all ME set
Brown
Rodgers

Baker
Bender
Cobb
Marquard

Hoppe
Johnson
Klaus
Kramer
Wolgast

Have T227, T219, and T205 to trade



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Would you be interested in my chief bender miners back?

[orioles70]

Possibly...could you post a pic of front and back

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[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by orioles70

Possibly...could you post a pic of front and back

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I posted above and also in the Tobacco BST area. I have sent you a PM

[orioles70]

My T227 Baseball

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[orioles70]

My Rodgers

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[orioles70]

OK...here is my breakdown of my T227 cards...I think I have a total of 66 T227 cards...may have another 1 or 2 stragglers in displays somewhere but these are confirmed

51 Honest Long Cut
15 Miners Extra

Unsure what this small sample reveals if anything in terms of distribution and rarity


Honest Long Cut Set (23 of 24)

[x]Abe Attell

[x]Home Run Baker

[x]Chief Bender

[]Bruce Brown* * REALLY WANT THIS CARD!!

[x]Ty Cobb

[x]Johnny Coulon

[x]Dixie IV

[x]Ess H Kay

[x]Budd Goodwin

[x]Harold Hilton

[x]Willie Hoppe

[x]Jack Johnson

[x]Frank Klaus

[x]W J Kramer

[x]Jack McDermott

[x]Matt McGrath

[x]Rube Marquard

[x]Ralph Mulford

[x]Alfred de Oro

[x]CP Rodgers

[x]Melvin Sheppard

[x]Uhlan

[x]Ad Wolgast

[x]C Zbyszko


Miners Extra Set (13 of 24)

[x]Abe Attell

[]Home Run Baker - does exist

[]Chief Bender - does exist

[]Bruce Brown - none known with this back

[]Ty Cobb - does exist

[x]Johnny Coulon

[x]Dixie IV

[x]Ess H Kay

[x]Budd Goodwin

[x]Harold Hilton

[]Willie Hoppe - does exist

[]Jack Johnson - does exist

[]Frank Klaus - does exist

[]W J Kramer - does exist

[x]Jack McDermott

[x]Matt McGrath

[]Rube Marquard - does exist

[x]Ralph Mulford

[x]Alfred de Oro

[]C P Rodgers - none known with this back

[x]Melvin Sheppard

[x]Uhlan

[]Ad Wolgast - does exist

[x]C Zbyszko


Honest Long Cut Set #2 (17 of 24)

Need 7 cards for this set

[x]Abe Attell

[x]Home Run Baker

[x]Chief Bender

[]Bruce Brown

[]Ty Cobb

[]Johnny Coulon

[x]Dixie IV

[x]Ess H Kay.* SGC 70 EX+ 5.5

[x]Budd Goodwin

[x]Harold Hilton

[x]Willie Hoppe

[x]Jack Johnson

[x]Frank Klaus

[x]W J Kramer

[]Jack McDermott

[x]Matt McGrath

[x]Rube Marquard

[]Ralph Mulford

[x]Alfred de Oro

[]C P Rodgers

[x]Melvin Sheppard

[x]Uhlan SGC 60 EX 5

[x]Ad Wolgast

[]C Zbyszko


Only need these 3 cards for an Honest Long Cut & Miners Extra mixed set

[]Bruce Brown

[]Ty Cobb

[]C P Rodgers


TRADEABLE

Triplicate Set (13 of 24)

Need 11 cards for another mixed set

All Honest Long Cut unless noted

[x]Abe Attell

[]Home Run Baker

[x]Chief Bender

[]Bruce Brown

[]Ty Cobb

[]Johnny Coulon

[x]Dixie IV

[]Ess H Kay

[]Budd Goodwin

[x]Harold Hilton

[x]Willie Hoppe

[]Jack Johnson

[]Frank Klaus

[x]W J Kramer

[x]Jack McDermott - Miner's Extra

[x]Matt McGrath

[]Rube Marquard

[]Ralph Mulford

[x]Alfred de Oro

[]C P Rodgers

[x]Melvin Sheppard

[x]Uhlan

[x]Ad Wolgast

[x]C Zbyszko - Miner's Extra


Upgrades

Johnny Coulon-light crease

Dixie IV-light crease

Budd Goodwin-rounded corners & crease

Jack McDermott-crease

Ralph Mulford-crease

C.P. Rodgers-crease

C. Zbyszko-light crease



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[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I've got 19/25 Miner's Extra up for auction right now.

[Bored5000]

I am a racing card collector, and I had vaguely known that the Bruce Brown card is a huge rarity in the T227 set. When was the last time collectors of T227 saw a Brown card for sale? Any guesses what one what sell for at auction these days?

[orioles70]

I started collecting T227 in 1985 and have never seen one in person or seen one for sale even in an auction in 32 years...After writing an article for the old VCBC magazine many years ago I was contacted by a collector looking for CP Rodgers to finish his T227 set and I was looking for the Brown card to finish my set but neither of us had a duplicate to trade...so we made actual size color copies and emailed each other...I printed out the Brown, cut it out and pasted the copy front and back onto stiffer backing and put it with the other 23 cards in the T227 set and that is my copy...that was the first time I ever saw what the card looked like and that was about 15 years after I started collecting the set!

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[orioles70]

Years later I later did a follow up article for Old Cardboard magazine and sent them copies of my set to use incuding that photocopied cut out Brown...lol

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[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by orioles70

I started collecting T227 in 1985 and have never seen one in person or seen one for sale even in an auction in 32 years...After writing an article for the old VCBC magazine many years ago I was contacted by a collector looking for CP Rodgers to finish his T227 set and I was looking for the Brown card to finish my set but neither of us had a duplicate to trade...so we made actual size color copies and emailed each other...I printed out the Brown, cut it out and pasted the copy front and back onto stiffer backing and put it with the other 23 cards in the T227 set and that is my copy...that was the first time I ever saw what the card looked like and that was about 15 years after I started collecting the set!

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Thank you so much for the information. I guess I can forget about ever acquiring that card. Racing has always been my first passion, so I did kind of know about what a great rarity the Brown card is in the T227 set, but it is kind of weird because the Holy Grail of auto racing cards is almost always considered to be the Fred Lorenzen with car card from the 1972 STP set. Maybe that is because T227 features athletes from a variety of sports and the 1972 STP set is exclusively an auto racing set.

Here is a thread discussing the 1972 STP set, and the great rarity that is the Lorenzen with car card.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/this...for-t8938.html

Longtime racing card collector Jon Hardgrove has written in the past that he had only seen one Lorenzen with car card in 26 years of collecting racing cards. An older lady in Connecticut that I bought some STP cards from a few years ago said that it took her 20 years to finally locate a Lorenzen with car card; the card had a pinhole from being tacked on someone's wall, but she was just glad to get any example of the card.

Here is a link to my gallery of 1972 STP cards so you can look at the card I am referring to, if you are interested.

Thanks again for the information on the Brown card.

https://imageevent.com/eddiesmithcards/1972stpcards

[orioles70]

You're welcome...thanks for the link...I learned something about racing cards today

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