Incredibly Rare Cigarette Pack Discovery

[canjond]

Apologies for not posting this in the "tobacco pack" thread, but I wanted to share a very exciting discovery with the Board. As many of you know, I have been collecting baseball related cigarette packs for 25+ years now. Although my collection is pretty advanced, there are still a handful of packs I've never come across, so it makes adding to my collection incredibly difficult. I'm at the point now that the 10-15 remaining packs I need are either unknown, or there is only a handful of copies that exist, and those reside in collections of old-timers or the whereabouts of the packs have been lost to time. The pack below is one such example.

To say that T231 Fan cigarettes cards are rare is an understatement. In fact, to date, only 3 examples of the cards have ever surfaced, Frank Baker, Larry Gardner and Carson Bigbee. What's incredible, however, is that about 15 years ago while doing research on the brand, I came across an old black and white photocopy of a Fans cigarette pack. It had appeared on the front cover of a cigarette newsletter in 1984. In an effort to track the box down, I contacted the publisher of the newsletter, many advanced cigarette pack collectors, and literally anyone else I could think of, but to no avail - no one had ever seen the pack beyond the newsletter, or knew what had happened to the gentleman's collection that was featured. I've been on the lookout for the pack ever since, and until recently, had resided myself to the real possibility that I'd never find it.

Fast forward to last week. Out of the blue, I received a letter in the mail (not email!) from a gentleman who ended up with the pack 40+ years ago. After some negotiation, we arrived at a price (a very steep price!), but the pack is now mine. The inner slide is missing, but the condition is incredible. So, for the first time, here is a picture of a T231 Fans cigarette box. I hope others can appreciate the pack as much as I do.

[bobfreedman]

What an amazing find Jon, it certainly landed in the right collection.

[vthobby]

Jon,

It's a beauty! Thanks for sharing. Love the story and congrats!

Mike

[rhettyeakley]

Amazing Find. I love this type of thing!

I hadn't realized that "Fans" was a Tobacco Products Corp. brand. They made quite a few non-sports sets and a set of Canadian Athletes and one of my favorite all-time sets (of any sport) the CHAMPS CIGARETTES Hockey card set, there is only one or two of the packs for that brand known to exist as well (it looks really cool with the small Stanley Cup pictured on the box.) They were very proficient in marketing Actor cards in the US and Actor/Athlete cards in Canada.

[Leon]

Congrats Jon. As a pack lover and Fans Cigarettes card prior owner, that is awesome. We finally get to see it!! I am happy for you.

[Bicem]

Great find, very cool!

[jerseygary]

What a great find ! Thank you for generously sharing it with us instead of keeping it hidden away like some collectors do.

[JLange]

Congrats on a fantastic find! Thanks for sharing!

[Michael Peich]

Jon--What an incredible find. You have always been generous with your knowledge, and the T231 Fan pack is the latest example of your commitment to share your important research on tobacco packs.

Cheers,
Mike

[Zan]

Pretty unbelievable that it's still in tact. I know you collect unopened, but aren't you curious of what is inside?

[SetBuilder]

Was the printing on old tobacco packs normally that fuzzy? It looks pixelated almost. Are you sure it's real?

[canjond]

Thanks for the kind words, all. As for the quality of the photo, I actually just scanned in the color photocopy that was sent to me for the board to see, hence why it looks pixelated (the real pack is still in transit to me).

[BruceinGa]

Great story, thanks for sharing!!

[canjond]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

Amazing Find. I love this type of thing!

I hadn't realized that "Fans" was a Tobacco Products Corp. brand. They made quite a few non-sports sets and a set of Canadian Athletes and one of my favorite all-time sets (of any sport) the CHAMPS CIGARETTES Hockey card set, there is only one or two of the packs for that brand known to exist as well (it looks really cool with the small Stanley Cup pictured on the box.) They were very proficient in marketing Actor cards in the US and Actor/Athlete cards in Canada.

Great info! Do you happen to have a scan of the Champs Cigarettes box?

[CW]

That's incredible, Jon! Persistence pays off... or maybe patience. Congrats!

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by canjond

Great info! Do you happen to have a scan of the Champs Cigarettes box?

I only have the very small image in board member Bobby Burrell's "Vintage Hockey Collector" guide book. I will copy the tiny image from there here, if he wants me to take it down I will but it is the only copy I have ever seen of it...



The set includes a card of the Stanley Cup itself as well and has been on my wantlist for years without seeing one for sale. One of the best Hockey sets ever made in my opinion.

Complete Set of the C144 Champ's Cigarettes Hockey Set that sold several years ago at Heritage (check out the Stanley Cup card):
https://sports.ha.com/itm/hockey-car...a/7024-80064.s

Stanley Cup card alone:
https://sports.ha.com/itm/hockey/192...Results-012417


I don't want to hijack your thread but here are some of the C140 Canadian Athlete Series, this is BY FAR the most difficult of the various Mixed Sport Athlete sets from the early 1920's in Canada (the other being V122 Willard's Chocolate and V31 Dominion Chocolate), the backs are somewhat on topic as they feature coupons for discounts for sporting goods (often baseball) which may account for their rarity today...

[Joe_G.]

Great find, hope the pack makes it to you safe and sound

Rhett, great info on the Champs Cigarettes box and cards as well.


Thank you for sharing!

[canjond]

Thanks Rhett. I assume the Stanley Cup image is a scan of the actual Stanley Cup card from the set and not the back of the cigarette box?

[oldjudge]

Great find, Jon. Congratulations! Are you almost complete now on your pack collection?

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by canjond

Thanks Rhett. I assume the Stanley Cup image is a scan of the actual Stanley Cup card from the set and not the back of the cigarette box?

The Stanley Cup pictured above from Bobby's book is on the box (the back, I'd assume). One of the links I posted above features the card from the set (which has a gold color look to it)

[canjond]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Great find, Jon. Congratulations! Are you almost complete now on your pack collection?

Thanks Jay. I'm slowly getting closer. There's only a handful that I know exist that I'm still missing (Mono, TTT, Uzit and a couple others).

[Jobu]

Very nice, I am happy to see you able to add this to your collection. Congrats!

Do you have scans of the T231 cards you can post?

[canjond]

Here’s an example.

[WillowGrove]

Huge congrats to you Jon. How great was getting that letter in the mail? Really happy that pack is getting to your collection.

[irv]

Originally Posted by canjond

Apologies for not posting this in the "tobacco pack" thread, but I wanted to share a very exciting discovery with the Board. As many of you know, I have been collecting baseball related cigarette packs for 25+ years now. Although my collection is pretty advance, there are still a handful of packs I've never come across, so it makes adding to my collection incredibly difficult. I'm at the point now that the 10-15 remaining packs I need are either unknown, or there is only a handful of copies that exist, and those reside in collections of old-timers or the whereabouts of the packs have been lost to time. The pack below is one such example.

To say that T231 Fan cigarettes cards are rare is an understatement. In fact, to date, only 3 examples of the cards have ever surfaced, Frank Baker, Larry Gardner and Carson Bigbee. What's incredible, however, is that about 15 years ago while doing research on the brand, I came across an old black and white photocopy of a Fans cigarette pack. It had appeared on the front cover of a cigarette newsletter in 1984. In an effort to track the box down, I contacted the publisher of the newsletter, many advanced cigarette pack collectors, and literally anyone else I could think of, but to no avail - no one had ever seen the pack beyond the newsletter, or knew what had happened to the gentleman's collection that was featured. I've been on the lookout for the pack ever since, and until recently, had resided myself to the real possibility that I'd never find it.

Fast forward to last week. Out of the blue, I received a letter in the mail (not email!) from a gentleman who ended up with the pack 40+ years ago. After some negotiation, we arrived at a price (a very steep price!), but the pack is now mine. The inner slide is missing, but the condition is incredible. So, for the first time, here is a picture of a T231 Fans cigarette box. I hope others can appreciate the pack as much as I do.

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

I only have the very small image in board member Bobby Burrell's "Vintage Hockey Collector" guide book. I will copy the tiny image from there here, if he wants me to take it down I will but it is the only copy I have ever seen of it...


The set includes a card of the Stanley Cup itself as well and has been on my wantlist for years without seeing one for sale. One of the best Hockey sets ever made in my opinion.

Complete Set of the C144 Champ's Cigarettes Hockey Set that sold several years ago at Heritage (check out the Stanley Cup card):
https://sports.ha.com/itm/hockey-car...a/7024-80064.s

Stanley Cup card alone:
https://sports.ha.com/itm/hockey/192...Results-012417


I don't want to hijack your thread but here are some of the C140 Canadian Athlete Series, this is BY FAR the most difficult of the various Mixed Sport Athlete sets from the early 1920's in Canada (the other being V122 Willard's Chocolate and V31 Dominion Chocolate), the backs are somewhat on topic as they feature coupons for discounts for sporting goods (often baseball) which may account for their rarity today...

2 great stories in one.

Congrats to the OP. One heck of a P/U for you!

Thanks to Rhett as well for sharing that hockey card info.

[mr2686]

Who says smoking isn't cool...says so right on the pack. LOL

[Wite3]

Such a cool item...and if any of you have not been to Jon's site, it is incredible!

Congrats!

Joshua

[ullmandds]

WOW! Congrats Jon...1 BIG step closer!!!!

[Exhibitman]

[rdwyer]

Great score, Jon!

[T206Collector]

This is tremendous — what a great story and write-up! Thanks for sharing!

[rebelsart]

Great pick up Jon! Amazing pack.

[autograf]

Congrats Jon! Great to see something fall into the right person's lap the way it should!

[1880nonsports]

so I continue to continue...…… Wow - super looking pack - congratulations!

[peterb69]

Congrats Jon and nice story.

[Yoda]

When you receive it, please make sure there isn't a card stuck inside. Maybe even a baseball treasure! Leon, how many baseball subjects are known besides your Baker.

[canjond]

Originally Posted by Yoda

When you receive it, please make sure there isn't a card stuck inside. Maybe even a baseball treasure! Leon, how many baseball subjects are known besides your Baker.

There are 3 total cards known. Baker and Bigbee, and then Gardner was recently discovered.

[edhans]

Does anyone know the whereabouts of the Bigbee? There is a picture of it in Lipset's encyclopedia, but Lew hadn't seen it personally and didn't know who owned it.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Yoda

When you receive it, please make sure there isn't a card stuck inside. Maybe even a baseball treasure! Leon, how many baseball subjects are known besides your Baker.

Sold Baker with the collection. As said, 2 are known and there is a xerox of another. Some day a stack of them will show up .

[the 'stache]

Congratulations, Jon. I live for reading stuff like this. Good luck getting those last few impossible pieces to finish your collection. I hope you find them.

[toppcat]

Insane!

[murphy8276]

Originally Posted by Leon

Sold Baker with the collection. As said, 2 are known and there is a xerox of another. Some day a stack of them will show up .

When you say a xerox, you literally mean a copy of one someone has posted up? I believe in rarity and admiration, but I don't see many posting Ty Cobbs and Honus Wagner t206's in their man cave in black and white photos and getting much kick out of it. This is intriguing to me that the rarity exists and is sought after (unknown to me personally), but I also find it kind of funny that someone took a xerox of a card and is now known in the same circle as one of the people with originals...

Share more on this if you could please Leon. Thank you in advance.

[swarmee]

He's not saying the xerox copy has any value, he's saying it's proof that there is a third example. Back in the days before the internet, people used to mail cards or photocopies across the country to the people who were compiling checklists and identifying card variations.

[whiteymet]

Can anyone ID the years of these Cigarette packs?

I MAY be able to pick them up. Should I?

Thanks,

Fred

[Leon]

Fred = They are newer, not too scarce and not worth too much. I would leave them be. They have a little value just not much.
I am still trying to get over the Fans Cigarette pack discovery. IT really is a great find.

[canjond]

Thanks again Leon. Since I originally posted, the pack arrived and I have it in hand now. The colors are obviously much more vibrant than the original photo I posted.

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by Leon

Fred = They are newer, not too scarce and not worth too much. I would leave them be. They have a little value just not much.
I am still trying to get over the Fans Cigarette pack discovery. IT really is a great find.

Thanks Leon!

Fred