Kudos to LOTG - discovered counterfeit #311 1952 Mantle PSA 1 in latest auction

[Madi$on18joshua]

I have been after a 52 Mantle PSA 1 as that is the best my budget can do right now. It is very popular card and there are a ton of them but it is difficult to uncover a good priced one as everyone on ebay wants more than even VCP. I thought I finally landed one from most recent LOTG auction at what I thought was a fair price. $5,800 for a rough PSA 1 cert#19886752. Which I checked out on PSA site and it said it was a #311 PSA 1 Mantle. It was item #23 in some unique display with an autographed picture as well. I thought people had simply overlooked it, which is why I got it for such a low price. After winning the auction Al Crisafulli reached out saying he had questions of its authenticity and wanted to get PSA's opinion. It was confirmed by Jackie Curiel of PSA that the alleged PSA graded card was in fact a counterfeit. So bummed but at least I didnt pay $5k for a fake and Al was nice enough to credit me $100 for a future auction for my troubles.

As I think more about this it makes me wonder if any of my cards in holders could be fakes too.

What are your thoughts on the subject?

Has something like this happened to anyone here before?

Best,
Micah


http://loveofthegameauctions.com/Att...-LOT16655.aspx

[hcv123]

Dark side of the hobby seems to be rearing it's ugly head quite a bit lately. Nice silver lining to this one - Al preemptively doing the right thing here - Go Al!

[oldjudge]

Al is one of the good guys in the hobby. You can bid with confidence in LOTG.

[the-illini]

Kind of a misleading title given the outcome no?

[CW]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Al is one of the good guys in the hobby. You can bid with confidence in LOTG.

One of the few auctions houses with whom I would place a max bid on an item.

Bummer you didn't finally get that Mantle, Micah. Hope you find a nice one down the road! Props also to Al for being proactive.

[cardinalcollector]

Originally Posted by the-illini

Kind of a misleading title given the outcome no?

Agreed, perhaps a re-wording is in order?

[Kawika]

Love of the Game is the Mom'n'Pop equivalent for auction houses. None of the big box master-of-the-universe crap that you get from many other AH's. Always a pleasure to deal with Al. When I park my bod in the assisted care home - I'm getting closer every day - on the way to the big cardshow in the sky look for the Kawika collection in LOTG. In a morbid sort of way I'm looking forward to seeing the catalog (if Al sends me one).

[Al C.risafulli]

I figure I'll get out in front of this one.

Indeed, we had in our auction a display piece that included a '52 Mantle in a PSA holder with an authentic certification number.

On auction closing weekend I had a bidder ask a question about the piece, which led me to take a harder look at the card. Ultimately on Monday morning I sent an email to PSA to ask them if they'd kindly take a look at the card for me, and then I sent the entire display piece to them by FedEx.

I sent an email to Micah, advising him of the situation and asking him not to pay his invoice until I received a final word from PSA.

Wednesday night, I received the email from PSA that the card was, indeed, counterfeit. The fraudsters (not my consignor, but the person from whom he bought the display piece years ago) seem to have cracked an authentic Mantle out, inserted a fake, and then put the entire holder into what looked like a very nice framed display. Behind a sheet of glass and then the plastic holder, it was pretty convincing. Thankfully, we caught it before money exchanged hands, but offered Micah an account credit for the inconvenience.

Unfortunate for Micah, who felt he'd gotten a good price on a card, but very fortunate for Micah, who didn't wind up paying nearly $6K for a counterfeit.

-Al

[BLongley]

Originally Posted by cardinalcollector

Agreed, perhaps a re-wording is in order?

+1

Al made everything right and took care of his customer, this title if googled and not read through would make it sound like you got ripped off, which isn't the case.

[Madi$on18joshua]

Originally Posted by the-illini

Kind of a misleading title given the outcome no?

I can see your point but it will only let me edit the body not the title - do you know of a way to edit it?

[BLongley]

Originally Posted by Madi$on18joshua

I can see your point but it will only let me edit the body not the title - do you know of a way to edit it?

When you open the message, click "go to advanced" then it will allow the title to be edited.

[Madi$on18joshua]

Originally Posted by BLongley

+1

Al made everything right and took care of his customer, this title if googled and not read through would make it sound like you got ripped off, which isn't the case.

you are correct. Title changed.

[Madi$on18joshua]

Originally Posted by BLongley

When you open the message, click "go to advanced" then it will allow the title to be edited.

ahhh, Thank you, Brian!

[Madi$on18joshua]

Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli

I figure I'll get out in front of this one.

Indeed, we had in our auction a display piece that included a '52 Mantle in a PSA holder with an authentic certification number.

On auction closing weekend I had a bidder ask a question about the piece, which led me to take a harder look at the card. Ultimately on Monday morning I sent an email to PSA to ask them if they'd kindly take a look at the card for me, and then I sent the entire display piece to them by FedEx.

I sent an email to Micah, advising him of the situation and asking him not to pay his invoice until I received a final word from PSA.

Wednesday night, I received the email from PSA that the card was, indeed, counterfeit. The fraudsters (not my consignor, but the person from whom he bought the display piece years ago) seem to have cracked an authentic Mantle out, inserted a fake, and then put the entire holder into what looked like a very nice framed display. Behind a sheet of glass and then the plastic holder, it was pretty convincing. Thankfully, we caught it before money exchanged hands, but offered Micah an account credit for the inconvenience.

Unfortunate for Micah, who felt he'd gotten a good price on a card, but very fortunate for Micah, who didn't wind up paying nearly $6K for a counterfeit.

-Al

Thanks again, Al - looking forward to this fall's auction as I here you may have a card I've been trying to pick up.

[Peter_Spaeth]

That version should have the missing pixel in the upper left part of the blue, maybe it does and I just can't see it? Anyhow glad Al caught it.

[52ToppsMantle]

I haver never dealt with LOTG. Glad to read of the quick service provided and disaster averted. I will make a point to check out the next auction.

By the way, was the holder in question one of the older ones or the new "light house" model?

And OP, I feel for you. While it is disappointing, LOTG saved you from even bigger problems down the road. A tip of there hat to the owner.

Even though my 52 Mantle slab from 2015 was scratch free, I decided to spend the extra money and send it in for the "light house" holder, for peace of mind for any future owners.

[irv]

Can it be assumed the auto is also a fake?

Kudo's ot LOTG. Although I have never bid in a A/H before, I will remember this one if I ever decide to.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli

I figure I'll get out in front of this one.

Indeed, we had in our auction a display piece that included a '52 Mantle in a PSA holder with an authentic certification number.

On auction closing weekend I had a bidder ask a question about the piece, which led me to take a harder look at the card. Ultimately on Monday morning I sent an email to PSA to ask them if they'd kindly take a look at the card for me, and then I sent the entire display piece to them by FedEx.

I sent an email to Micah, advising him of the situation and asking him not to pay his invoice until I received a final word from PSA.

Wednesday night, I received the email from PSA that the card was, indeed, counterfeit. The fraudsters (not my consignor, but the person from whom he bought the display piece years ago) seem to have cracked an authentic Mantle out, inserted a fake, and then put the entire holder into what looked like a very nice framed display. Behind a sheet of glass and then the plastic holder, it was pretty convincing. Thankfully, we caught it before money exchanged hands, but offered Micah an account credit for the inconvenience.

Unfortunate for Micah, who felt he'd gotten a good price on a card, but very fortunate for Micah, who didn't wind up paying nearly $6K for a counterfeit.

-Al

Kudos...what gave it away....was the case frosted Al?

[bobbyw8469]

On 2nd though...just looking at the colors would have raised a red flag with me.....it looks like a bad fake....but I am sure the case was frosted as well.

[Peter_Spaeth]

..

[Jobu]

I was the tipster. Several things about the card looked wrong to me so I reached out to Al hoping a) that I was wrong and b) to help him avoid a mess by sending it out/paying the consignor if I was right.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Jobu

I was the tipster. Several things about the card looked wrong to me so I reached out to Al hoping a) that I was wrong and b) to help him avoid a mess by sending it out/paying the consignor if I was right.

Does anything about it look right?

[robkas68]

Good story. And nothing about that Mantle looks right. With respect to the missing pixel, my own Mantle doesn't "appear" to be missing the pixel. That's because whoever decided to "fix" mine decided it would look better if the missing pixel was colored in.

[pokerplyr80]

Peter is that really the card in question? That looks terrible. Al did anyone look at the card before putting it in the auction? Did it look that bad in person?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Madi$on18joshua

Has something like this happened to anyone here before?

Best,
Micah


http://loveofthegameauctions.com/Att...-LOT16655.aspx

Micah, something similar happened a few years ago with a T206 Cobb Green in a PSA holder. I believe that it ended up with an ebay seller called Toppsaholic. What he did with it I don't know.

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Al is one of the good guys in the hobby. You can bid with confidence in LOTG.

+1

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Sean

Micah, something similar happened a few years ago with a T206 Cobb Green in a PSA holder. I believe that it ended up with an ebay seller called Toppsaholic. What he did with it I don't know.

that will show up again probably

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Peter is that really the card in question? That looks terrible. Al did anyone look at the card before putting it in the auction? Did it look that bad in person?

Jesse, that scan is from the auction.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Jesse, that scan is from the auction.

I just went to the auction site and saw. Hard to believe it made it in. It looks like it was printed in someone's living room and had either some dirt or printer ink spread across the surface.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I just went to the auction site and saw. Hard to believe it made it in. It looks like it was printed in someone's living room and had either some dirt or printer ink spread across the surface.

And you were just asking in another thread how can the average collector catch something when the AH doesn't?

See, it happens.

[CrackaJackKid]

How many times are we gonna see PSA screw up again. I understand they’re all human but on a 52 Mantle, regardless of condition, I’m sure there would be many eyes on it in house before it left.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CrackaJackKid

How many times are we gonna see PSA screw up again. I understand they’re all human but on a 52 Mantle, regardless of condition, I’m sure there would be many eyes on it in house before it left.

Who says PSA screwed up, it's probably a Mexican or other hatchet job.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And you were just asking in another thread how can the average collector catch something when the AH doesn't?

See, it happens.

I had not looked at the auction lot but now looking back it, it is pretty obvious based on the scan Al provided online. I don't know Al but I think it goes without saying that it would not benefit him in anyway to have tried to pass it off as a legit card.

I think this is a perfect example of someone letting down their guard and assuming since a card is in a holder it is ok. Not sure any of us can be too careful no matter who we are buying from. Not everyone selling a "bad" card is doing it with the intent to screw you. Best to know as much as you can about what it is you are spending your money on.

[Peter_Spaeth]

No way did Al have bad intent, inconceivable. He should, however, have caught this on his own, but mistakes happen. All 52T Mantles should be scrutinized, period. And anyone considering buying one should take the time to learn the distinguishing characteristics of a real one.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And you were just asking in another thread how can the average collector catch something when the AH doesn't?

See, it happens.

I believe I prefaced my comment with something like unless they missed something obvious. I'd still like to hear an explanation on how they missed this one.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I believe I prefaced my comment with something like unless they missed something obvious. I'd still like to hear an explanation on how they missed this one.

It's hard to imagine there is an explanation except oversight. There is no way Al scrutinized the card and believed it to be real, he's too knowledgeable.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's hard to imagine there is an explanation except oversight. There is no way Al scrutinized the card and believed it to be real, he's too knowledgeable.

Didn't he just hire another person as well?

[Bicem]

Yeah, heard he missed it too, GASP!

[Peter_Spaeth]

[Rookiemonster]

Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli

I figure I'll get out in front of this one.

Indeed, we had in our auction a display piece that included a '52 Mantle in a PSA holder with an authentic certification number.

On auction closing weekend I had a bidder ask a question about the piece, which led me to take a harder look at the card. Ultimately on Monday morning I sent an email to PSA to ask them if they'd kindly take a look at the card for me, and then I sent the entire display piece to them by FedEx.

I sent an email to Micah, advising him of the situation and asking him not to pay his invoice until I received a final word from PSA.

Wednesday night, I received the email from PSA that the card was, indeed, counterfeit. The fraudsters (not my consignor, but the person from whom he bought the display piece years ago) seem to have cracked an authentic Mantle out, inserted a fake, and then put the entire holder into what looked like a very nice framed display. Behind a sheet of glass and then the plastic holder, it was pretty convincing. Thankfully, we caught it before money exchanged hands, but offered Micah an account credit for the inconvenience.

Unfortunate for Micah, who felt he'd gotten a good price on a card, but very fortunate for Micah, who didn't wind up paying nearly $6K for a counterfeit.

-Al

Great business model Al ! Sorry to everyone involved that it was a fake .

[frankbmd]

If one was running an auction house with a fine reputation and a glossy catalog, and if you only had "time" to carefully examine the higher end consignments, isn't a 52 Mantle perhaps the first (or second) card you should look at carefully.

Yeah, mistakes happen, but really.......................................

[Bicem]

A Frank post I understood! Yes, we screwed up and didn't catch it when we should have.

[iowadoc77]

The measure of a person or persons in this case is not if they make a mistake. Because we ALL do. The measure of those people is in how they react once the mistake has beeen made. And the reaction here was above reproach.
Al and Jeff are 2 of the best in the business. And no permanent damage was done.
And in the words of Forest Gump, “That’s all I have to say about that.”

Eric Recker

[perezfan]

Well said!

[jgmp123]

Originally Posted by iowadoc77

The measure of a person or persons in this case is not if they make a mistake. Because we ALL do. The measure of those people is in how they react once the mistake has beeen made. And the reaction here was above reproach.
Al and Jeff are 2 of the best in the business. And no permanent damage was done.
And in the words of Forest Gump, “That’s all I have to say about that.”

Eric Recker

+1!!

[drcy]

It was handled before the winner paid and was fixed when the issue was pointed out to them. It would have been ideal if it wasn't put in the auction, but I think there's some nitpicking here.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by drcy

It was handled before the winner paid and was fixed when the issue was pointed out to them. It would have been ideal if it wasn't put in the auction, but I think there's some nitpicking here.

If you think we're nitpicking I'd suggest taking another look at that scan. If this were any other AH I doubt the responses would be so positive. I can only imagine what they'd look like if pwcc had let this card slip through the cracks. That is the worst fake 52 Mantle I can ever remember seeing.

[Rookiemonster]

Originally Posted by iowadoc77

The measure of a person or persons in this case is not if they make a mistake. Because we ALL do. The measure of those people is in how they react once the mistake has beeen made. And the reaction here was above reproach.
Al and Jeff are 2 of the best in the business. And no permanent damage was done.
And in the words of Forest Gump, “That’s all I have to say about that.”

Eric Recker

Agreed with this.
Just a simple mistake that should be forgiven right?

[Hankphenom]

I wonder if the consignor has done anything, like try to get his money back or call the cops.

[pokerplyr80]

I would like to know who wrote the description for the 52 Mantle for this auction. Because obviously that person looked at the card but somehow missed the fact that it was an obvious fake. I have nothing against Al of lotg personally, but way too many members are giving them a pass for putting a terrible card into their auction. Doing the right thing after it was pointed out to them does not excuse including this card in their auction.