What did I get into?

masonm1 · #1 07-24-2018, 03:34 PM

Hello all! I'm brand spankin' new to this, so humor me as much as you will.
Recently purchased an estate and inherited quite a lot of baseball memorabilia.

I Have LOTS of Negro League items, including a poster with 210 signatures on it... That's gonna be a fun one.

What caught my eye to start this project was the signed balls. Here's what I got:

Mickey Mantle auto'd ball
Toni Stone, Mamie "peanut" Johnson and Connie Morgan auto'd ball
Leon Day auto'd ball
Satchel Paige and Roy Campanella auto'd ball
Cal Ripken Jr. Consecutive games played auto'd ball
Joe DiMaggio auto'd ball
Pete Rose auto'd ball
Monte Irrin auto'd ball
Cal Ripkin Jr. and Sachio Kinugasa consecutive game streak auto'd ball

Added pic's of said poster with 210 auto's from Negro League, thoughts?

Have CoA's to all items as well.
Pete Rose from The Score Board Inc.
Monte Irrin from Moody's Collectibles, Inc.
Sachio Kinugasa/Cal Rip Jr. from The Score Board
Toni Stone, Connie Morgan, Mamie Johnson from Wayne and Mike Stivers "Mister Sports Collectible"
Cal Ripken Jr. from The Score Board
Satchel Paige & Roy Campanella from Midwest Forensics
Joe DiMaggio from Pro Sports Services
Leon Day from Wayne and Mike Stivers "Mister Sports Collectible"
Mickey Mantle from Madison Sports Management
So, what did I just get myself into?

JeremyW · #2 07-24-2018, 03:38 PM

Unfortunately, the Mantle is no good.

bensie · #3 07-24-2018, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremyW

Unfortunately, the Mantle is no good.

How can you tell?

7nohitter · #4 07-24-2018, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremyW

Unfortunately, the Mantle is no good.

That's bananas!!

7nohitter · #5 07-24-2018, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bensie

How can you tell?

Ben,

That's a very common forgery referred to as a "banana" Mantle because of the shape of the loops on the M's

masonm1 · #6 07-24-2018, 04:10 PM

Hi Jeremy, thanks for your input! CoA from Madison Sports Management.
What is it that you are seeing that makes it no good if you don't mind me asking?

RedsFan1941 · #7 07-24-2018, 04:20 PM

sadly, the Paige also is no good

masonm1 · #8 07-24-2018, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedsFan1941

sadly, the Paige also is no good

What is the reasoning?

BLongley · #9 07-24-2018, 04:30 PM

See if Madison Sports Management will buy it back from you...

Both M's are bad and typical "banana" M's seen on forgeries and the "l" to "e" in Mantle is terrible...looks very slowly done and not even done well slowly. Look at some Authentic Mantles you will see what we are talking about.

I've been a big Mantle collector for years so that's the only one I can provide any helpful input on...

Quote:

Originally Posted by masonm1

Hi Jeremy, thanks for your input! CoA from Madison Sports Management.
What is it that you are seeing that makes it no good if you don't mind me asking?

BLongley · #10 07-24-2018, 04:35 PM

Also I just did a quick google search on Madison Sports COAs and it seems they are not very good authenticators....

http://www.sportscollectorsdigest.co...-to-watch-for/

masonm1 · #11 07-24-2018, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLongley

See if Madison Sports Management will buy it back from you...

Both M's are bad and typical "banana" M's seen on forgeries and the "l" to "e" in Mantle is terrible...looks very slowly done and not even done well slowly. Look at some Authentic Mantles you will see what we are talking about.

I've been a big Mantle collector for years so that's the only one I can provide any helpful input on...

Ok thank you! Not sure what original price was from person who bought it. But will definitely get in contact with them.

parker1b2 · #12 07-24-2018, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7nohitter

Ben,

That's a very common forgery referred to as a "banana" Mantle because of the shape of the loops on the M's

+1

Loops are a give away

SetBuilder · #13 07-24-2018, 04:51 PM

The subtle details in the Mantle are just wrong. Like the stem of the "k" in Mickey for example.

It should be a backward loop, like this:

Most authentic examples have this trait.

RedsFan1941 · #14 07-24-2018, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masonm1

What is the reasoning?

use google to find some authentic examples. look at them objectively. i think your question will be answered.

tazdmb · #15 07-24-2018, 06:08 PM

Roy Campanella is bad also. It is known the Roy could only sign flat surfaces after his accident. Scoreboard had him sign some leather baseballs before they were stitched to create a Signed Baseball for the public demand. However, those are all signed on the Sweet Spot.

BillyCoxDodgers3B · #16 07-24-2018, 07:18 PM

^^^ Unintended misinformation, I'm sure. Campy was able to write on certain non-flat surfaces. Although unable to sign baseballs, he could autograph bats. The story of the baseballs being signed before stitching is of course true.

masonm1 · #17 07-24-2018, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyCox3

^^^ Unintended misinformation, I'm sure. Campy was able to write on certain non-flat surfaces. Although unable to sign baseballs, he could autograph bats. The story of the baseballs being signed before stitching is of course true.

From what I gather however, if the Paige is forged, why would the Campy be true? Someone trying to get the extra leg up?

earlywynnfan · #18 07-24-2018, 07:59 PM

Betting that Negro Lg pic with all the sigs is from Wayne Stivers, too. He sold a few of those.

Ken

masonm1 · #19 07-24-2018, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

Betting that Negro Lg pic with all the sigs is from Wayne Stivers, too. He sold a few of those.

Ken

No CoA from Stivers.. Mike Munns Autographs and Sports Collectibles is CoA. Original invoice packaged with item is for $800.

Sladge34 · #20 07-24-2018, 08:28 PM

What did I get into?... Buying a lot of forged items with a few cheap ones scattered in between.

Sladge34 · #21 07-24-2018, 08:30 PM

Sadly, these will be resold to an unsuspecting customer

masonm1 · #22 07-24-2018, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sladge34

What did I get into?... Buying a lot of forged items with a few cheap ones scattered in between.

Sadly, these will be resold to an unsuspecting customer

Sladge, it is not my intention to reinstall any forged items back into circulation. I want to know what I have, and what I do not have before moving forward.

earlywynnfan · #23 07-24-2018, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masonm1

No CoA from Stivers.. Mike Munns Autographs and Sports Collectibles is CoA. Original invoice packaged with item is for $800.

Don't care what COA comes with it, it's from Wayne. That's a good thing.

masonm1 · #24 07-24-2018, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

Don't care what COA comes with it, it's from Wayne. That's a good thing.

That makes me happy to hear!

theshleps · #25 07-24-2018, 08:46 PM

Wayne is a good guy. I did get an Andy Cooper from him that JSA and PSA turned down tho it could be good. hundreds of others I got from him all good

btcarfagno · #26 07-24-2018, 08:55 PM

The ball with the three ladies on it is good as well. I would be interested if you are selling it.

Leon · #27 07-24-2018, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sladge34

Sadly, these will be resold to an unsuspecting customer

Put your name next to your post. Thanks
(never mind, got it covered)

Mr. Zipper · #28 07-25-2018, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masonm1

Hi Jeremy, thanks for your input! CoA from Madison Sports Management.
What is it that you are seeing that makes it no good if you don't mind me asking?

The signature is a common mass-produced forgery type and Madison Sports is not a credible dealer/authenticator. I believe they were one of the forgery ring distributors named in FBI's Operation Bullpen.

tazdmb · #29 07-25-2018, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyCox3

^^^ Unintended misinformation, I'm sure. Campy was able to write on certain non-flat surfaces. Although unable to sign baseballs, he could autograph bats. The story of the baseballs being signed before stitching is of course true.

I honestly did not know that, thank you for this information. I wonder if baseballs were just too compact of a surface for him to sign.

earlywynnfan · #30 07-25-2018, 07:16 AM

It also helps that the Satch/Campy ball is one of those All Star balls, probably 1983, that forgers seemed to love.

BillyCoxDodgers3B · #31 07-25-2018, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tazdmb

I honestly did not know that, thank you for this information. I wonder if baseballs were just too compact of a surface for him to sign.

They clearly weren't too compact, as he could sign them prior to being sewn together. The curvature of a baseball was likely too extreme for his limited motor movements, whereas a bat would have provided him a larger, longer, less rounded surface.

masonm1 · #32 07-25-2018, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

The signature is a common mass-produced forgery type and Madison Sports is not a credible dealer/authenticator. I believe they were one of the forgery ring distributors named in FBI's Operation Bullpen.

Yikes! I'll be looking into them today.

Klrdds · #33 07-25-2018, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyCox3

They clearly weren't too compact, as he could sign them prior to being sewn together. The curvature of a baseball was likely too extreme for his limited motor movements, whereas a bat would have provided him a larger, longer, less rounded surface.

Exactly. Even though bats were easier to sign they are much rarer to find with Campanella's post-accident autograph than baseballs. The main reason was the price he charged for bats , as with most players, was much more than for baseballs.