PWCC-PQ (premium quality)

[Peter_Spaeth]

I guess HE has been supplanted by the next generation of hype. Purple sticker eat your heart out.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/1910-E93-St...oAAOSw4RZbEbk9

Anyone see a contradiction between all the blah blah blah about premium quality and this statement on the same page?

We at PWCC are not professional graders so we trust in the reputation and opinion of 3rd party professional graders.

[aconte]

Wow! Prices are really really going to go up now!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by aconte

Wow! Prices are really really going to go up now!

Maybe that will be PWCC's next thing, to suggest how high we should bid.

[MattyC]

I want to see a slabbed card covered with stickers— from PWCC, a few AHs, a few past owners, etc. That's the next step.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Anyone see a contradiction between all the blah blah blah about premium quality and this statement on the same page?

We at PWCC are not professional graders so we trust in the reputation and opinion of 3rd party professional graders.

Wow. That is funny. "We are not graders and trust the TPGs. Here is our grading system of TPG-graded cards."

Reminds of the Chapelle Rick James skit: I wouldn't put my feet up on someone's couch... Yeah, I remember putting my feet on the couch.

Over/under on when they start slabbing/grading cards, with the caveat that they are not graders?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Yeah. We don't have the qualifications to grade, but we can sure go on and on about our qualifications to tell you about premium quality. Uh, OK.

I can't imagine there will be any politics or favoritism that goes into the PQ designation.

IMO PWCC does a great job selling cards. I wish they would stick to that and not this kind of unnecessary hype or the PWCC 100 index or who knows what's next.

[MattyC]

Wait, Pete: they are grading the “eye appeal”— not the card, LOL.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Is there a PWCC app yet? One that shows you only PWCC cards?

[ruth_rookie]

I thought they stickered cards with “high end” when eye appeal far exceeds the technical grade. What is this “premium quality”? Are they doing away with the term “high end”? Or are they different? Can a card get both stickers? What the hell is going on...

[Peter_Spaeth]

HE lives!! PQ must be one step up from HE?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1912-T202-H...wAAOSwQz1bEbcR

Good grief.

One is "superior" one is "exceptional." Well damn.

[drcy]

"This is getting too silly."-- Monty Python

[ruth_rookie]

Won’t be long, the majority of eBay listings will have “premium quality” in the title, and that term will get worn out and annoy the hell out of me like “high end” does.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by ruth_rookie

I thought they stickered cards with “high end” when eye appeal far exceeds the technical grade. What is this “premium quality”? Are they doing away with the term “high end”? Or are they different? Can a card get both stickers? What the hell is going on...

From the descriptions of the two linked auctions high end is top 5% of examples, and the new premium quality is top 15% of examples of that card in the same grade.

[bensie]

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/eye-appeal

PQ is one tier below HE

[KCRfan1]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

From the descriptions of the two linked auctions high end is top 5% of examples, and the new premium quality is top 15% of examples of that card in the same grade.

But could the two be combined together forming : High End Premium Quality?

This could be the top 5% of the 5% of the 15% of examples of the card within the same grade.

[iwantitiwinit]

This is such b.s., how can you know something is the top 20% or 15%, etc. of a certain population unless you have the entire population in front of you at one time to evaluate.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Is there a PWCC app yet? One that shows you only PWCC cards?

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.......we can make this happen!

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.......we can make this happen!

Dont give them any ideas!

[vintagetoppsguy]

I think I'm going to try and cash in on this idea too. I'm going to have my own high-end sticker/certification. I think I will use a yellow label.

It's going to be called Super High-end Illustrious Top Tier Yellow or SHITTY for short. Before you know it, everyone will want a SHITTY sticker on their card. I'll be rich!

[gregr2]

s-l1600.jpg

[toledo_mudhen]

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...D977&FORM=VIRE

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.......we can make this happen!

The app could alert you when a card has hit 80 percent of its expected final value -- which in many cases would be within a few hours of listing.

[MattyC]

They need to give little stars or certificates for making certain bids on their items. That would certainly stimulate bidding even further, from those who need extra third-party validation and a pat on the head... Maybe a little dunce cap logo or something.

That said, a system that in effect overrides PSA grades certainly has some philosophical validity; PSA grades are pretty tragic and too often don't reflect eye appeal whatsoever. It seems every time I search for cards, I find cards in PSA X grade that are thrown beatings by cards a full grade lower.

The dumpster fire is due in part to PSA's changing standards over time. We have cards in slabs from many years ago that look horrid, and much better looking cards graded today can't get the same grade.

End result is more onus on the end buyer/collector to issue the final and most important grade with our wallets.

[Leon]

Barry (hi Barry) and I were talking about this very subject recently. Hobbyist's are becoming more savvy. Just because a TPG says a card is a technical grade doesn't mean it is the best quality or has the best eye appeal, only that it meets the technical criteria for that grade. I almost never buy higher graded cards because I can almost always find a better looking one in a lower grade (cheaper to buy) holder. The registry might actually help us other collectors in that respect. Because those collectors need the point higher more than great looking cards.

As to the subject of another sticker? It's not a big deal to me. It is no more than another point of view on condition where I am the final arbiter for my collection, not anyone else.

Originally Posted by MattyC

They need to give little stars or certificates for making certain bids on their items. That would certainly stimulate bidding even further, from those who need extra third-party validation and a pat on the head... Maybe a little dunce cap logo or something.

That said, a system that in effect overrides PSA grades certainly has some philosophical validity; PSA grades are pretty tragic and too often don't reflect eye appeal whatsoever. It seems every time I search for cards, I find cards in PSA X grade that are thrown beatings by cards a full grade lower.

The dumpster fire is due in part to PSA's changing standards over time. We have cards in slabs from many years ago that look horrid, and much better looking cards graded today can't get the same grade.

End result is more onus on the end buyer/collector to issue the final and most important grade with our wallets.

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by Leon

The registry might actually help us other collectors in that respect. Because those collectors need the point higher more than great looking cards.

Totally agree. The Registry motto seems to be, "Buy The Holder, Not The Card."

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Totally agree. The Registry motto seems to be, "Buy The Holder, Not The Card."

But what happens when PWCC starts its own registry?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by MattyC

They need to give little stars or certificates for making certain bids on their items. That would certainly stimulate bidding even further, from those who need extra third-party validation and a pat on the head... Maybe a little dunce cap logo or something.

That said, a system that in effect overrides PSA grades certainly has some philosophical validity; PSA grades are pretty tragic and too often don't reflect eye appeal whatsoever. It seems every time I search for cards, I find cards in PSA X grade that are thrown beatings by cards a full grade lower.

The dumpster fire is due in part to PSA's changing standards over time. We have cards in slabs from many years ago that look horrid, and much better looking cards graded today can't get the same grade.

End result is more onus on the end buyer/collector to issue the final and most important grade with our wallets.

I have yet to see anyone say a card sucks for the grade.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

This is such b.s., how can you know something is the top 20% or 15%, etc. of a certain population unless you have the entire population in front of you at one time to evaluate.

No point trying to bring reason or logic to bear on this. This is marketing hype pure and simple and bs is the currency of marketing.

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I have yet to see anyone say a card sucks for the grade.

Oh, I say it a ton, when I browse almost every auction,

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

But what happens when PWCC starts its own registry?

Wonderful. The more registry du jour collectors the better. Then I can buy my cards cheaper!!

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I have yet to see anyone say a card sucks for the grade.

I remember seeing it once. On that green cobb that was a PSA 4 or 5 with paper loss on the back. I think the way it was described was the paper loss seems inconsistent with the assigned grade. It was in a big auction, heritage or rea.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by gregr2

Attachment 318201

Well done. Maybe that's next, selling advertising space on slabs.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

"Exceptionaly eye appeal for the issue, rating a 3/3 on our scale"

OK so spelling and grammar aside (really it makes your company look pretty dumb but whatever) how about a definition of "our scale" so we know what the hell "3/3" means. Oh wait, it's meaningless.

[Peter_Spaeth]

So does a 4 on a scale of 3 get a high end?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I have yet to see anyone say a card sucks for the grade.

I've listed cards on ebay that say it looks worse than the assigned grade.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I've listed cards on ebay that say it looks worse than the assigned grade.

You are certainly exceptionaly then.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by peter_spaeth

you are certainly exceptionaly then.

lol

[CobbSpikedMe]

What about when PSA teams up with PWCC to give extra points on the registry for HE and PQ cards? Won't that be special?

[scotgreb]

"This sticker is dangerous and inconvenient, but I do love Fig Newtons" -- Ricky Bobby

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvi9zpHlrvg

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So does a 4 on a scale of 3 get a high end?

The same way an athlete can give 110%

[bostonmarathonman]

Originally Posted by bensie

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/eye-appeal

pq is one tier below he

ok, ty

[iwantitiwinit]

Here's some additional simple math that further says this system is B.S.

If average as defined by pwcc's own website is 50% of the population, shouldn't below average and above average each be 25% of the remaining population (basic normal population curve)? You can further breakdown either or both of those population areas into as many pieces as you want, ie. above average, exceptional, high end, etc. but they should sum to 25% each. PWCC has somehow found it possible and proper to invalidate the immutable tennents of math/statistics by having below average contain only 20% of the population and the entire area deemed higher than average comprise 30% of the population.

[egbeachley]

HE is for the technical grade. PQ is for the eye-appeal. The hobby needs this.

[Anish]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

HE is for the technical grade. PQ is for the eye-appeal. The hobby needs this.

No...they both refer to eye appeal

As a consignor, I’m glad to see them do everything possible to maximize sales. As a buyer, I don’t care how they label anything (or how a grader grades anything).

[Arazi4442]

I posted this in a thread when I first joined Net54 (and seen it discussed in other threads as well) but I'll say it again. It absolutely blows my mind that multi-million dollar companies make these assessments without any, or maybe a minimum of, 21st century technology. We all know even a 1 pt change in a TPGs grading of a card can have huge ramifications in that cards value. Just looking on eBay today, a 1987 Donruss Greg Maddux RC SGC 98 is about a $80 card - SGC 100 is a $600-800 card. And that's a modern rookie - we saw the same thing at HA with the PSA 8.5 and 9 Mantle 52 Topps cards. I know everyone who saw the 9 raves about the card and from the scans, I agree, but that's something like a $1.6 million change over 1/2 point grade. Not even getting into the discussion of TPG changing standards over time.

My background is in engineering and I've seen quality related equipment that can measure down to the 1/100 th of a mm. It's impossible to believe that there is not scanning software available that could grade a card electronically (corners, centering, etc). You could also have permanent storage of the scan for any future needs. Maybe things like focus, clarity would still be subjective but the technology is out there to make something this important and $ related as objective and scientific as possible.

I may be misinformed about how cards are currently graded by the TPGs and I hope I am, but no matter how experienced or trained a grader may or may not be, grading solely by visual inspection should have been abandoned in the last century.

Rant over...Carry on

[Snapolit1]

As far as I can tell this is just a gimmick for PWCC to pimp PSA 3s and 4s and try to convince people they are worth more than they are worth. Good eye appeal in the real estate business usually means nice looking house but it’s located right behind the train tracks.

[luciobar1980]

I definitely agree with their "point" and why they do this. But at the same time, leave some work and responsibility to the eye of the beholder.

[conor912]

You know it's just a matter of time before slabs start getting slabbed, with each grade getting it's own 10 point system.... essentially ending up like coins. "This PSA 4 rates an 8 out of 10 within the 4 grade". It really is turning into a Monty Python skit.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Anish

No...they both refer to eye appeal

As a consignor, I’m glad to see them do everything possible to maximize sales. As a buyer, I don’t care how they label anything (or how a grader grades anything).

Yes. This.

[Zact]

Being a clemente collector- I just came across a new "premium quality" listing. A 1958 Topps Clemente SGC 7.5 - the card certainly is well centered with sharp corners - but is significantly out of focus- enough to bother my personal "eye appeal" test - thus the 7.5 from SGC and probably a lower grade from PSA ...

[Peter_Spaeth]

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