What are some tips on making money in this hobby?

[tcalca24]

Looking for some ideas on how to flip and make a few extra dollars fueling my passion for vintage cards. I see avid “hobby” collectors at shows and wonder how they do it. Not looking for trade secrets but just some tips to make some discrentary spending money through hard work. I do the hobby for fun but realize i need up my game if I’m ever to own the big boy cards. Thanks Ted

[TUM301]

I`ve got one word for you son, P L A S T I C S !

[Snapolit1]

Overpay today for cards that are in great demand. Ruth Goudeys. Gehrig Goudeys. Shoeless Joe Jackson. Jackie Robinson rookies. Mickey Mantle. Your overpayment today will look like a steal in 2 years. But buy the card everyone seemingly wants. Buying the third or fourth most desired card won’t work out as well. And like houses buy a better one than you were planning on.

Stick to iconic names. If your coworkers have never heard of the player probably not a great investment. Are exceptions. Yes, Eddie Plank, I’m talking about you.

All my opinion. I am sure others will tell you I am an idiot.

[tiger8mush]

a lot of it is speculation, trying to determine what is under-priced now and will rise in demand in the future.

I'm horrible in that aspect, so I treat it as a hobby and have fun with it. If making money off it was my goal, I'd spend my time and effort elsewhere cuz I rarely come out ahead when I sell cards.

edited to add: Steve is an idiot (i keed, i keed )

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by tcalca24

Looking for some ideas on how to flip and make a few extra dollars fueling my passion for vintage cards. I see avid “hobby” collectors at shows and wonder how they do it. Not looking for trade secrets but just some tips to make some discrentary spending money through hard work. I do the hobby for fun but realize i need up my game if I’m ever to own the big boy cards. Thanks Ted

For a quicker return on your investment, and if you have the time, buying lots/groups of cards and breaking them down will in many cases yield a reasonable profit based on your initial investment. I have built a near complete run of Topps sets for a minimal cost using this method.

[bensie]

What you propose is a very difficult thing to accomplish reliably. The number one advice I'd give is to establish a relationship with an auction house and negotiate favorable rates. If you don't or can't, auction fees will eat up all of your profits and then some.

I've had a small amount of success flipping, but it's a real grind. I would routinely put in over $100k worth of bids on cards only to come up empty or to get a card that would flip for a couple hundred bucks. I did that for a couple months, but it's not fun nor is it worth the time. I went back to simply buying cards I like.

When I talk to people about it, I liken it to card counting in blackjack. When I was young, I was pretty decent at counting cards and could reliably make money. However, I was spending full days in the casino and it was boring as hell. I then decided to give it up and just get a real job since the time investment was about the same and the money wasn't much different. Same story with cards. Gave up the flipping and am focused on other ways to make money.

To put it succinctly: there's no free lunch.

[oldjudge]

1. Apprentice with a card doctor
2. Shill your consignments in online auctions
3. Buy online and immediately relist your winnings with a higher BIN. If it doesn't sell reneg on the original purchase

[swarmee]

1) Don't get into group breaks of modern product or bust cases. Good way to go broke fast. Sure, some people hit big, but they do in Vegas too. Modern card buying is like buying lottery tickets.
2) Read my primer on COMC here:
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1211826
3) Buy low, real low. Don't buy gigantic lots and pay market price. Make sure you have enough meat on the bone to not get eaten up by eBay fees, shipping costs, etc.
4) Make sure you know what your cards are worth, and where best to sell them. eBay is good, but if you don't describe your cards right, you'll just be feeding the flippers on eBay and not making the money for yourself.
5) Read the COMC flipping thread:
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=807253
Shows how some can take cards and turn them into profits by finding diamonds in the rough, see which cards sell for premiums, etc. I am a fan of Topps error/variation cards listed in PSA master sets.
6) Learn how to grade cards, learn the graded card market, and send your submissions to PSA on bulk specials.
7) Figure out how to tell real cards from reprints.

[doug.goodman]

Your original question is a contradiction.

Doug

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Overpay today for cards that are in great demand. Ruth Goudeys. Gehrig Goudeys. Shoeless Joe Jackson. Jackie Robinson rookies. Mickey Mantle. Your overpayment today will look like a steal in 2 years. But buy the card everyone seemingly wants. Buying the third or fourth most desired card won’t work out as well. And like houses buy a better one than you were planning on.

Stick to iconic names. If your coworkers have never heard of the player probably not a great investment. Are exceptions. Yes, Eddie Plank, I’m talking about you.

All my opinion. I am sure others will tell you I am an idiot.

Exactly! Spend strong money on the “best of the best” for Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb, Jackson, etc. rarities and then put them away for several years. For baseball’s most iconic players, todays retail is tomorrow’s whokesale. Show a little patience and you WON’T be disappointed.

[ronniehatesjazz]

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

Exactly! Spend strong money on the “best of the best” for Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb, Jackson, etc. rarities and then put them away for several years. For baseball’s most iconic players, todays retail is tomorrow’s whokesale. Show a little patience and you WON’T be disappointed.

Sadly this is all too true. Ruth Goudeys were going for ~$1k or so in the 1-2 range a few years ago. I held off thinking they would come back below four figures only to see them catapult to $2k+ since. Iconic cards will always be in demand and the higher grade the better. There still are quite a few value cards out there right now. IMO any Jackie rookie is very undervalued right now. The same could be said about Mays 51 Bowman and perhaps even the 52 topps. Also T201’s are currently very under appreciated right now and I think collectors will “wise up” in the future and prices will rise as a result. The Cobb/Jennings card is one of the most undervalued cards in the hobby and is a total steal (no pun intended).

Then again you could always mortgage your house, flip a 52 mantle, and be living on a private island in the West Indies in a few short years.

[toledo_mudhen]

Buy Low - Sell High

[Johnny630]

I stick with other ways of making money, however if you have some discreationary money/patience, you may wanna give this a try. I know it's not sexy, in fact it's rather boring as hell, you maybe saving for a long time until the right time to buy comes. If the right time does not come hell you will still have a nice chunk of cash to do whatever the heck you want!! Most probaby think this idea is way out in left field.

Save your money up until the next resecisson. Wait for people to panic like Buffet. Buy the highest eye appeal graded Ruth/Mantle/Jackie/Clemente. Do not buy overgraded ugly cards with early grades, a lot of these were gift grades. I also like to buy virgin cards without vcp history.

If you land a few killer cards hoard them away for 10 years plus if not more.

This stratagey may only land you a handfull of cards in a 5-10 year strech, in the long run I've been very happy.

[iwantitiwinit]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Your original question is a contradiction.

Doug

Exactly.

[bigfish]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Overpay today for cards that are in great demand. Ruth Goudeys. Gehrig Goudeys. Shoeless Joe Jackson. Jackie Robinson rookies. Mickey Mantle. Your overpayment today will look like a steal in 2 years. But buy the card everyone seemingly wants. Buying the third or fourth most desired card won’t work out as well. And like houses buy a better one than you were planning on.

Stick to iconic names. If your coworkers have never heard of the player probably not a great investment. Are exceptions. Yes, Eddie Plank, I’m talking about you.

All my opinion. I am sure others will tell you I am an idiot.

Agree 100 percent. Buy the players that are recession proof - Ruth Cy Young ....

[kailes2872]

Like real estate and most other things, the money is made on the buy. Cash is collected at the sale.

Also (as stated above) cash is made on the cut. Money is made on cucumbers when they are sliced into pickles. That is why you see advertisements for sets, near sets, bulk lots, etc. When you have the cash to outlay that someone else doesn’t have and can parse that lot or set out card by card you can make money on it but the money is made on the time and effort and is often time offset by postage, fees, and effort. It quickly turns into a minimum wage job.

I heard it said about auto racing and while not a perfect analogy because some do very well, it is said that the best way to make a small fortune in racing is start with a large fortune and then start a race team.

I don’t have the haggling gene to make a low offer that allows me the 50 points of margin to cover 20 points in fees 5-10 points in portage and supplies, 5 points in damages and fraud so I can squeeze out 15 points of margin that is only worthwhile if I am doing enough volume to justify that it becomes a second full-time job. I got into this hobby because I love the cards and the memories that it brings. If I had to go that route, it would quickly become unenjoyable

One member buys multiple sets of a year upgrades that way into the best possible set he can put together and then sells the duplicate sets that are lower grade for close to his initial investment and adds value. Even lower grade 50’s sets can be pricey so it takes capital but, to me, it seems a great way to build value in the collectiom.

Good luck

[pbspelly]

I am reminded of that old joke about how to make a small fortune on Wall Street - start with a big one.

[Fballguy]

Find a guy getting a divorce and desperate for cash.

Or a guy about to go to jail.

I've had luck with both.

[joshuanip]

Buy the cards you want to collect and put your effort and real money in the market. If you don’t have time for that SPY works just fine, it beats ~98% of the managers out there.

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Find a guy getting a divorce and desperate for cash.

Or a guy about to go to jail.

I've had luck with both.

Were you charged a bp?

[ALR-bishop]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Find a guy getting a divorce and desperate for cash.

Or a guy about to go to jail.

I've had luck with both.

I have been looking for cards on ebay, at shows, in flea markets and at estate sales. Apparently I should be hanging out down at the court house

[Touch'EmAll]

Buy upper tier high demand HOFers at reasonable fair market values (occasionally a little below), hold long term, BINGO! Short term you need to get a good low price to begin with - can be tougher than you think.

[barrysloate]

The one problem the OP might have is that only he and about 5000 other collectors are trying to do the same thing, so it's a bit of a competitive market.

Quality baseball cards are in high demand and generally easy to sell. That's the good news. The problem is how do you buy cheap enough to turn a profit? That is the difficult part.

My best advice, as someone who has been doing this for 36 years, is to learn as much as you can and work hard at it. Somewhere along the line, good things will happen.

[invest]

I have been collecting football cards for decades, but I got into collecting graded vintage RC's of HOF's many years ago after visiting Rich Muellers site

http://www.baseballcardinvestment.com

It is a lot of the same advice many people have already given, but when I was starting out I knew who the star players were but didn't know which of their cards were the most collectible. Some pre-war iconic players have very tough to find RC's or no clear ones you can readily find.

The site was a great resource. Those players and their respective cards seem to appreciate in the long run.

Troy

This is how I've operated over the past seven years since I got into collecting specifically vintage cards and I've had some modest success (as in my collection has nearly been completely funded by having flipped cards over this time period). I work in education so I can definitely relate to having limited discretionary funds

1) Study the market of the players you're interested in and know the values of those cards in the range you are thinking of buying like the back of your hand. That way when you see what appears to be a good deal you can act quickly. Key cards of blue chip HOF'ers are a good starting point

2) Only, or almost only, buy cards that you'd be happy owning your entire life and passing on to family members. This will satisfy the collector in you and separates you from just being a business. I've had more great cards go through my hands than I currently own, but the one's in my personal collection will hopefully be passed on to my son one day

3) Buy multiples of cards that you believe are a good value when possible for investment purposes and for your own personal collection. Nothing worse than owning one copy of a card that's exploded, especially if its a player you collect (in my case 1947 Bond Bread Jackie Robinson)

4) Know when to take a loss. I overpaid and owned a really nice M116 Wagner Blue background in SGC 60 for over a year before I listed it on BST and it was clear to me that I had overpaid by at least $1200-$1500. Eventually I took the loss but rolled that money into an E121 Ruth that I was able to sell within weeks and make all that money back, plus an extra $2k

5) Contact sellers when a price is solid and ask if they are able to do any better. This will piss off about the same percentage of sellers who end up knocking off an additional 10% from my experience.

6) Sell when you want to not when you need to. Obviously you don't want to be in a situation that you need to sell cards to remain afloat

[x2drich2000]

As with most things in life, there are a many different philosophies on how to make money selling cards. Sure, everyone loves the idea of hitting homerun and double or triple their money on a single card, but if it takes 2 or more years of holding the card and tying your funds up, that may not be the best approach. Instead, you could look at having a smaller profit percentage per card but a higher turnover rate. Your particular time frame, finances, effort, risk tolerance, etc would likely influence the way you approach it.

As an example, buying 1 card for $100, holding for a year before selling for $140 results in a 40% profit. You could make that same 40% profit by buying a $100 and selling if for $110 and repeating this every 3 months.

[drcy]

Be an expert in sell prices, then you know when something is a deal.

Expand beyond baseball cards.

Frankly, I thought a couple of posts in this thread were crap.

[mechanicalman]

I believe if you want to buy "big boy cards" (your words, not mine), I think your time and capital will be better invested in places other than cards. In my observation, people can make a ton of money selling stuff they DON'T have passion for. I've heard of many housewives who earn 7 figures selling crap on Amazon because they fill a market need. There is no gap in the market for people re-selling sports cards.

That said, if you're intent on playing the flipping game, I might suggest a different route. Instead of going after the premium quality cards, buy the worst cards of a certain grade (which typically go for a lot less than high end cards) and then price it on eBay at or just below the average prices for HE cards. So, a new, less savvy buyer might see your off-centered Cobb 5 priced below one that just sold at a high from PWCC, and he might think he should snag it. This seemed to the model of Mike Dinero (though I don't see his listings anymore.) Other folks on the board seem to do this is as well, so perhaps there's something to it. I'm speaking only from observation, not experience.

[Vintageismygame]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

For a quicker return on your investment, and if you have the time, buying lots/groups of cards and breaking them down will in many cases yield a reasonable profit based on your initial investment. I have built a near complete run of Topps sets for a minimal cost using this method.

I second this method as I have a collection that has an appraised/insured value of over $600,000 that I about $25,000 of actual out of pocket.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by TUM301

I`ve got one word for you son, P L A S T I C S !

^^This is easily #1^^ Not is the buying/selling/trading of cards already in plastic. Getting raw high grade cards into those magic plastic holders is the real money maker.

Originally Posted by oldjudge

1. Apprentice with a card doctor
2. Shill your consignments in online auctions
3. Buy online and immediately relist your winnings with a higher BIN. If it doesn't sell reneg on the original purchase

^These are by far the most common ways^

[drcy]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

I believe if you want to buy "big boy cards" (your words, not mine), I think your time and capital will be better invested in places other than cards. In my observation, people can make a ton of money selling stuff they DON'T have passion for. I've heard of many housewives who earn 7 figures selling crap on Amazon because they fill a market need. There is no gap in the market for people re-selling sports cards.

I agree, but it is a double-edge sword. It is a problem when people buy and sell in items they are personally/psychologically invested in. On the other hand, they have a knowledge of the material, which is important.

As I said: "going beyond baseball cards and knowing sell prices." However, realize that when you go into different areas there is a lot of stuff you don't know. Remember all the minute variations and intricacies in baseball cards that affect value.

[frankbmd]

free shipping

[AGuinness]

Set your collecting goals and have reasonable expectations around how to get there.

Investment cards are more fun if you focus on cards you'd be happy to have if they lost all their value (opposed to the stock market, where if the stock crashes you don't have a little picture to enjoy).

I think modern cards are riskier (injuries, PED suspensions and the like do happen - gotta think investors in Robinson Cano cards are not having a good spring) and busting boxes isn't a get rich quick scheme. That said, I flip some on COMC and do use some proceeds to open a box or two each year. If I can make my money back or get some profit, that's great, but if I lose a little money on it all, I'm okay with that. Opening a box or two is fun and there is some value to be had in that experience, IMO.

[Rookiemonster]

Become a dealer at a show. Put up a sign that says buy and trading. Tell everyone that wants to sell that you can only pay low price because you have to resell it. If trading tell everyone that the trade has to be in your favor because you paid for a table today.


This is what I seen a lot of guys do over the years. I usually walk away at that point. I believe in equal trades and don’t believe in trading up or down. If the cost of all the items are the same then that’s a equal trade.

Why would I in this day and age sell my card to cheaper then I would on eBay even after the fees?

That being said it must work because I see dealer doing that way for years and years .

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Your original question is a contradiction.

Doug

Why can't a person make money with a hobby? Seems to me people have been doing that forever. My grandmother knit sweaters in the 30s and sold them to families in the neighborhood. My dad collected coins and traded some for profit. People rebuild cars and happily sell them.

[kailes2872]

Originally Posted by drcy

Frankly, I thought a couple of posts in this thread were crap.

I resemble that remark

[Goudey]

Best advice I can give is buy when people are desperate. Tough times in the economy etc. Look for people on here who say they need to sell to pay rent/car/college. Best deals I’ve found are throwing them a low offer with a little sales pitch.

[JollyElm]

Put every dime you have into Mantles. Every one of his cards is on the same escalator...the up escalator.

[Leon]

I just buy stuff that looks like a good value. Here is one I got on ebay a few days ago....I don't need or want it. It was a BIN at 1300 and I paid 1200....I think it's worth a little more. That is how I do it. The back is nice... "What is the downside and what is the upside?", is my question with each purchase.

[conor912]

Like with any investment, patience is where the real payoff happens. There are way easier ways to make fast money than in this hobby.

[Bpm0014]

I swear it was just last year that you could get a decent looking PSA 1 Red Cobb for like $500-$600.....

[Yoda]

As one who used to do some trading way back when, I am convinced that TPG killed card trading.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Look what cards people keeps asking for on B/s/t

better yet just look for whatever cards Peter speith asks for..

[Peter_Spaeth]

Now that's funny, as I would offer myself as a role model for how NOT to make $$$ as a collector.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Now that's funny, as I would offer myself as a role model for how NOT to make $$$ as a collector.

If cards of composers or painters ever blowup in a big way, I'll be the first in line to call Peter the Nostradamus of our hobby.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

If cards of composers or painters ever blowup in a big way, I'll be the first in line to call Peter the Nostradamus of our hobby.

I have great hopes for my Sportscasters, Paninis and SI for Kids as well.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Now that's funny, as I would offer myself as a role model for how NOT to make $$$ as a collector.

He said Peter SPEITH.... different Peter. Now that guy has good taste

[ALR-bishop]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Now that's funny, as I would offer myself as a role model for how NOT to make $$$ as a collector.

So you are to baseball cards as Zero Mostel was to Broadway shows ?

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I have great hopes for my Sportscasters, Paninis and SI for Kids as well.

Shoot, it probably wouldn't take more than a few dudes to create a buying group and run up the prices on those babies. Just sayin'.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

So you are to baseball cards as Zero Mostel was to Broadway shows ?

It's Springtime for Trout.